Diablo® III

Whirlwind Barbarian Nerfed in RoS!

09/27/2013 12:13 PMPosted by Prology
Hopefully they won't change a CM/WW wizards, but who knows after this Barb problem dies down, it will be next on the list.


They could have spent months fixing other class builds, addressing SKILLS and PASSIVES that are NEVER used currently. Instead they take the most used, most popular and destroy it.



I noticed that trend too. Rather than buffing other skills to bring up other classes to the same level, nerf things that allow a class to solo just as well within a group. Barb owning everything? Well we can't have that! The Barb class needs to be as ineffective as the other ones and DON'T DARE SAY THE OTHER ONES NEED TO BE BUFFED SO THEY CAN BE AS EFFECTIVE AS WW BARBS!!!!

Here's the solution... let' turn Barbs into TANKS!
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It really makes no sense logically to remove one of the most played barb specs.... unless they really just want to hurt the players?
.


It mnakes perfect sense. No one would try Xpac new class if Barb was still the best


that's gotta be the most moronic !@#$ ive ever heard. so because the barbarians the best people are just gonna write it off and not play the new expansion class? use your brain kid, we always want new classes to play, new things to experience. your remarks are so ignorant its not even funny.
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Hurricane + Brawler = GGNORE
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I use blood funnel with WW and it's great. Hurricane is not the one and only rune you can use......
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09/28/2013 11:56 AMPosted by NateMoone
I use blood funnel with WW and it's great. Hurricane is not the one and only rune you can use......


I actually believe that with the lifesteal stat disappearing and Hurricane becomming a more crowd control related rune, Blood Funnel* will become the rune for solo-sustain builds that don't want to rely on neither health globes (+some pickup radius) or LoH/Life per Fury Spent.
Edited by Eduw#1663 on 9/28/2013 1:28 PM PDT
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There are SOOO MANY lame skills and passives in every single class right now. To start with one of the 2 or 3 really well done builds and tear all the skills it uses down to the ground is just plain stupid. They could have spent months fixing other class builds, addressing SKILLS and PASSIVES that are NEVER used currently. Instead they take the most used, most popular and destroy it.

The WW is what a build looks like with perfect synergy where every piece works with the others. It really is one of the FEW examples of what blizz got correct in D3. If every class had a build (or multiple builds) with that type of thought and synergy this game would have approached what everyone expected from D3. Instead most skills lack imagination and some are down right horrible. It's a shame really, and the thing that lets blizzard get away with it is a divided community.

Thanks for this post mate, I really, really appreciate that. I´ve been posting that same thing for way too long now. Sometimes I feel like I´m the only person left who can see the forest for the trees...

Not sure how to evaluate my 30 page long font size 8 expansion improvements document that keeps getting bigger each week and how long I´ll be able to keep up posting improvement ideas, we´ll see.

Anyway, I´ve accepted their decision. I´m sure we´ll find a few workable builds in the expansion and if not, there´s our strength bro Crusader, who is like a clone

GENERATORS
1. Punish +5W pseudo bash with temporary block bonus
2. Scourge +5W pseudo entangling shot
3. Slash +5W pseudo frenzy
4. Justice +5W pseudo throwing hammer
SPENDERS
5. Sweep Attack -25W pseudo cleave / lashing tail kick
6. Fist of the Heavens -25W lightning bolt from the sky – targetable storm armor
7. Blessed Hammer -10W spinning hammer – pseudo cob
8. Blessed Shield -25W pseudo ricochet with a shield
9. Shield Bash -25W pseudo hota with a shield
10. Phalanx -35W avatars rush to the targeted location, deal damage and knockback – pseudo zombie bears
11. Bird of Prey -25W damage dealing summon
DAMAGE/UTILITY WITH CD
12. Falling Sword -25W / 25 sec pseudo leap
13. Steed Charge 15 sec pass through enemies – pseudo spirit walk
14. Retaliation 15 sec pseudo explosive blast / revenge
DEFENSIVE CD
15. Judgment 20 sec field immobilize – pseudo stomp / frost nova
16. Shield Glare 12 sec pseudo blinding flash
17. Consecration 30 sec healing/utility field effect
18. Provoke +50W / 20 sec taunt - should have been a barb skill we only have TS Demoralize :(
19. Iron Skin 30 sec pseudo ignore pain
PARTY BUFFS
20. Laws of Justice 30 sec party allres
21. Laws of Hope 30 sec party healing and regen
22. Laws of Valor 30 sec party IAS
23. Laws of Fate 30 sec party dodge
HARD HITTING LONG CD
24. Heaven´s Fury 40 sec Holy damage ray???
25. Bombardment 60 sec rain of pitch and stone – pseudo rain of vengeance
26. Akarat´s Champion -50W / 120 sec buff like wotb

I´m not criticizing because there is only so many different skills you can create. The good thing is that we should have no problems learning how to play this class :)

That being said, hopefully they consider giving the Crusader some cooldown reduction mechanics like CM/GI beside flat reduction as 15/26 skills have it, rivaling our dear Barbs with 11/22 cooldowns. Let´s see what new active skills we´ll get.
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I haven't given up on playing Barbarian in RoS. I am guessing I'll probably play my Barbarian in my first RoS playthrough. I am looking forward to seeing what they finalize as far as changes to current skills and abilities as well as what new ones we'll have to play with!
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There are SOOO MANY lame skills and passives in every single class right now. To start with one of the 2 or 3 really well done builds and tear all the skills it uses down to the ground is just plain stupid. They could have spent months fixing other class builds, addressing SKILLS and PASSIVES that are NEVER used currently. Instead they take the most used, most popular and destroy it.

The WW is what a build looks like with perfect synergy where every piece works with the others. It really is one of the FEW examples of what blizz got correct in D3. If every class had a build (or multiple builds) with that type of thought and synergy this game would have approached what everyone expected from D3. Instead most skills lack imagination and some are down right horrible. It's a shame really, and the thing that lets blizzard get away with it is a divided community.

Thanks for this post mate, I really, really appreciate that. I´ve been posting that same thing for way too long now. Sometimes I feel like I´m the only person left who can see the forest for the trees...

Not sure how to evaluate my 30 page long font size 8 expansion improvements document that keeps getting bigger each week and how long I´ll be able to keep up posting improvement ideas, we´ll see.

Anyway, I´ve accepted their decision. I´m sure we´ll find a few workable builds in the expansion and if not, there´s our strength bro Crusader, who is like a clone

GENERATORS
1. Punish +5W pseudo bash with temporary block bonus
2. Scourge +5W pseudo entangling shot
3. Slash +5W pseudo frenzy
4. Justice +5W pseudo throwing hammer
SPENDERS
5. Sweep Attack -25W pseudo cleave / lashing tail kick
6. Fist of the Heavens -25W lightning bolt from the sky – targetable storm armor
7. Blessed Hammer -10W spinning hammer – pseudo cob
8. Blessed Shield -25W pseudo ricochet with a shield
9. Shield Bash -25W pseudo hota with a shield
10. Phalanx -35W avatars rush to the targeted location, deal damage and knockback – pseudo zombie bears
11. Bird of Prey -25W damage dealing summon
DAMAGE/UTILITY WITH CD
12. Falling Sword -25W / 25 sec pseudo leap
13. Steed Charge 15 sec pass through enemies – pseudo spirit walk
14. Retaliation 15 sec pseudo explosive blast / revenge
DEFENSIVE CD
15. Judgment 20 sec field immobilize – pseudo stomp / frost nova
16. Shield Glare 12 sec pseudo blinding flash
17. Consecration 30 sec healing/utility field effect
18. Provoke +50W / 20 sec taunt - should have been a barb skill we only have TS Demoralize :(
19. Iron Skin 30 sec pseudo ignore pain
PARTY BUFFS
20. Laws of Justice 30 sec party allres
21. Laws of Hope 30 sec party healing and regen
22. Laws of Valor 30 sec party IAS
23. Laws of Fate 30 sec party dodge
HARD HITTING LONG CD
24. Heaven´s Fury 40 sec Holy damage ray???
25. Bombardment 60 sec rain of pitch and stone – pseudo rain of vengeance
26. Akarat´s Champion -50W / 120 sec buff like wotb

I´m not criticizing because there is only so many different skills you can create. The good thing is that we should have no problems learning how to play this class :)

That being said, hopefully they consider giving the Crusader some cooldown reduction mechanics like CM/GI beside flat reduction as 15/26 skills have it, rivaling our dear Barbs with 11/22 cooldowns. Let´s see what new active skills we´ll get.


From what I can tell, it's about two very distinct gaming philosophies. In D2 to this day, a group of 8 players can enter one game and 7 of them can decide to park their character butt safely in a corner while one person wipes the map.

D3 development has decided against this approach.

If a player wants to enjoy a Diablo experience in D3, they won't be able to. The D3 development team has taken an approach to oppose recreating such an experience. Players will just have to play D2 in order to have fun, because that kind of fun isn't going to happen in D3, it's geared more to conform to a WoW experience.

We NEED Tanks!
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if we wanted wow we'd play wow, this is diablo. therefore we want diablo, understand?

moving towards a "wow" direction is a big mistake. first off that game is a big !@# fail and they've already lost most of the wow community to other games. I don't want that to happen to d3, atleast no more then it already has. maybe if they got their heads outa their $%^ they could save the game before its to late. We want that diablo feel, none of this wow nonsense.
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09/27/2013 12:13 PMPosted by Prology
Hopefully they won't change a CM/WW wizards, but who knows after this Barb problem dies down, it will be next on the list.


Well all the other classes (mostly DH users) cry about these 2 builds the most, so I fully expect it to happen (CM nerf).

There are SOOO MANY lame skills and passives in every single class right now. To start with one of the 2 or 3 really well done builds and tear all the skills it uses down to the ground is just plain stupid. They could have spent months fixing other class builds, addressing SKILLS and PASSIVES that are NEVER used currently. Instead they take the most used, most popular and destroy it.

They are trying to drive sales to the new classes in xpac. It's the only way it makes sense.

Those DH and Monks who cry like 2 year olds about the WW build, it's really sad. You could have used it as a model to ask blizzrd for similar builds in your class (or just use the Barb duh)
The WW is what a build looks like with perfect synergy where every piece works with the others. It really is one of the FEW examples of what blizz got correct in D3. If every class had a build (or multiple builds) with that type of thought and synergy this game would have approached what everyone expected from D3. Instead most skills lack imagination and some are down right horrible. It's a shame really, and the thing that lets blizzard get away with it is a divided community.

this guy knows exactly what hes talking about, and I completely agree, CM wiz and WW barb are the 2 exceptions of classes that have a great spec/build with complete synergy. instead of nerfing the only 2 classes they got right, why not buff the 3 classes they failed to make properly?

Lazyness is the answer to that question. I swear I lose more faith in blizzard everyday.
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lol " Completely Dead " which really means " Wont be as fast ".

Kids these days.
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This seems like a buff to me as the base of WW will now increase your movement speed by 66% while spinning as part of the main skill. This will allow us to try out other runes! The only way the WW build will be no good is if they kill 'Into the Fray'. I've experimented with running this build without WotB and yes it is weaker but still viable.
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10/02/2013 05:30 PMPosted by MiddleGate
This seems like a buff to me as the base of WW will now increase your movement speed by 66% while spinning as part of the main skill. This will allow us to try out other runes! The only way the WW build will be no good is if they kill 'Into the Fray'. I've experimented with running this build without WotB and yes it is weaker but still viable.


lol 100% wrong, the whirlwind skill will make u move at 66% of ur normal movement speed, not to mention playing whirlwind with any rune besides hurricane is not only boring but ineffective. lets not forget the into the fray nerf they are making and the infamous wotb nerf. with wotb being nerfed there will be no1 point to even use it, therefore whirlwind barbs will not exist.
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Wow you are 100% right! My brain totally inverted that. That is a super nerf… I wonder what Blizzard is thinking. What’s more Diablo, classic, and nostalgic than a WW barb??!

There is no reason to kill the whole build when there are some easy ways to de-buff it a bit. Oh well. I guess I will wait and see but I love spin to win, just like I loved it in D2. I was so excited when this build was discovered because I felt like I was playing my old D2 barb again. If you check my profile you will see that I even still use a shield with the build because of that nostalgia.
Edited by MiddleGate#1985 on 10/3/2013 2:40 PM PDT
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Wow you are 100% right! My brain totally inverted that. That is a super nerf… I wonder what Blizzard is thinking. What’s more Diablo, classic, and nostalgic than a WW barb??!

There is no reason to kill the whole build when there are some easy ways to de-buff it a bit. Oh well. I guess I will wait and see but I love spin to win, just like I loved it in D2. I was so excited when this build was discovered because I felt like I was playing my old D2 barb again. If you check my profile you will see that I even still use a shield with the build because of that nostalgia.
all we can do is hope half the nerfs they listed are false and they have something to replace WOTB. tbh barbarian and wizards are the only classes blizzard got right and currently have a great spec. instead of nerfing the barbarian they need to buff the other 3 classes to how a WW barb and a CM wizard can perform, that being said that wont happen, because blizzard has let us down before and im sure they will again ;p lol
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WW Barb may not be dead build after all.

If seems like there is likely to be stats you will be able to buff with your paragon bonuses. So it seems you will be able to spend your hard earned paragon points towards Fury Regen or Max Fury.

So I assume you could sacrifice bonus strength for more Fury from your earned paragon (which is currently proposed to be uncapped).

So I guess this build is not completely dead, you just have to grow into it using your paragon bonuses.

It looks like Blizzard is implementing more character customization for RoS, so you could have a more resource based barb or a barb focused on strength or a barb with more base resistance etc. This I think is alot better as presently all barbs end up to have the same stats ... and the game ends up to be just based on gear.
Edited by metalguns#2673 on 10/12/2013 9:55 AM PDT
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I do like this change.
I think there is a problem with a class if about 90% of players playing that class goes with one spec and one spec only. WW - hurricane, Into the Fray, Wotb and RLTW, and then possibly rend and 20% resistance&armor.

If blizzard wants to make a game with more specs viable, they have to do something about the WW-barb. And blizzard do, in fact, want to have more specs viable.

And most of those who complain, complains because the most effective build will be gone, Not because it is the most fun build.
A fun build is a build which lets you kill enemies in rapid speed.
For how fun is it to click on one button and hold it down until monsters are dead.

And it is perfectly okay to complain about your "oh so favorable and overpowered build, with such great "synergies" is going to be nerfed". Though cut your bull!@#$ about it being the only build. Because most if you haven't even tested another build after you reached lvl 60.
I'm pretty sure most of those who plays D3 and wants to test a new build, they go to google and search for "effective build (insert class)".

I don't think a build is done "right" when it is permanently immune to cc, moves in rapid speed, does good damage and moves through enemies without using a skills which is INTENDED to build rage which makes use of more powerful skills possible, therefore some skills, like WW costs RAGE. Blizzard had an idea that WW should NOT be permanent, but instead used when you had collected enough RAGE to use it.
OTHERWISE, RAGE would NOT exist as a CONCEPT AT ALL.

The thing I hope they implement is some kind of a good skill system, which is not as "newbie" friendly as it is today. A system which actually took some time to learn and discover, which craved for some kind of commitment into something to gain the better abilities of that kind. Not this easy cookie-cutter bad excuse of a skill-system which completely lacks depth.
Take a look at the changes of WoW Talent-tree changes through the year. It has gone from a pretty good talent-trees with interesting talents, to something which totally lacks depth.

The second thing they should implement is a removal of that "only 6 different skills at a time" thing. Though I can kind of understand their thought behind that limit. You should optimize your build around 6 different skills (offensive, defensive, ultimate, cc etc). Which could be interesting. Though I'd like to have possibilities to make use of more then those 6 different skills.
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Seems to me this change was put in to limit the monster-chugging-perma WOTB kids spinning and winning and calling the spec "difficult". I'm all for it, I mean lets be real here. Spec is broke as hell. perma WOTB essentially makes WOTB a buff more in line with some of the shouts or OP:KS not a "fun cooldown" which is what the talent was supposed to be to begin with.
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So WW Barb will finally move at every other class speed? How sad for them, not.


Monks are faster pure runspeed wise - demonhunters can vault two times in a row until cooldown kicks in. Do you even play this game? Because you clearly have no idea whatsoever.


He probably doesn't for he is probably the same guy who is a biased !@#$ from every way to Saturday. I have said this time and time again... All class's should be made equally and fair and yes the Barbarian and Wizard in it's current state have it made and by fixing these classes should not mean nerfing them because they can do X and are immune to X and this breaks game mechanics because X and X... That is WoW player logic flawed at it's highest...

And believe me, as much as I can't wait for the expansion I am willing to wait just so I can get as much enjoyment out of my Barbarian before I am no longer able to WW/Rend my enemies to Death.

Edit:

11/12/2013 08:42 AMPosted by haters
Seems to me this change was put in to limit the monster-chugging-perma WOTB kids spinning and winning and calling the spec "difficult". I'm all for it, I mean lets be real here. Spec is broke as hell. perma WOTB essentially makes WOTB a buff more in line with some of the shouts or OP:KS not a "fun cooldown" which is what the talent was supposed to be to begin with.


This is a perfect example... Need I say more?
Edited by Ghost#11709 on 11/12/2013 9:22 AM PST
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