Diablo® III

It's over Demon Hunters - Shadow Power nerf

I just don't understand why people want to tank with a charachter that wield a bow as a weapon.
When you choose an hero in this game you know that you have 5 archetype avaible .
If you imagine your hero going in the middle of the hordes fighting in close combat why choosing a demon hunter to do that? considering everyone do it while using a bow :)
In only we could have some specials daggers or melee weapon for us with cool and useful stuff i'll understand ;)


Its an adaptation to the pvm environment that we can face at the highest level and at the highest difficulty, a random 4 player pub game or uber 4 player run, with a DH successfully and easily, if you are asking for opinions.

And I choose it because it can do it and play range if I want, thus the "fun" factor, that we keep going back too....
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pretty much agree with ravn shadow power is not needed just get a bit of regen and your fine at least its working so far for hardcore
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"I just don't understand why people want to tank with a charachter that wield a bow as a weapon."

WHY: Because some player like to Tank. It's really fun! The FUN is more important than efficiency!

I like to jump in a monster pack and swim in the plague while fighting. Most DH use SP and Night Stalker to stay alive. I use LoH and 3% LS. I don't need a lot of disc (Vault for repositionning and M4D for Hatred regen with CoT)

I can run MP10 as a Tank DH without SP and SS. I can Farm MP7 easy.

When I play public game on MP10, all (90%) DH use RF build..... they usually have more DPS than me, but they usually only have 1 skill to output some damage (RF) and if they don't snapshot SP (or if they stop channeling....Vortex, KB...), they are dead. After 16 sec, I got 3 CoT, Shuriken, 6 Spike trap, M4D, HA and even ToC dealing damage simultaneously... so I can output good DPS with my low paper DPS. It's FUN to be different.

I'm happy with the SP nerf because it's really boring to see all these DH clones. I think it will help build diversity!

@ Rav1n

+1 for your HC MP7 SP-less video and for the build too.

...sorry for my bad english.....
Wow, I ran almost exactly that same build for 1.04 after getting hit hard with the JS nerf.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#aQedYk!UfZ!Zbccbb
I bet you rock in game. Good play on the FUN card.
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FUN CARD!! >_<

Anyways.. yeah, once you get a work around SP and remove it from your skill slot, you'd gain 1 more skill slot that you can use offensively ;)

Still, with the upcoming SUPPOSED changes, I say BARBS will be hit harder since Battle Rage - Into The Fray will no longer grant them Fury on Crit. and Wrath of the Berserker - Thrive in Chaos does no longer extend it's duration.

From those, we can say that they got the fcked up stick of all.

But who knows, we only know a few things, and the ones we know aren't even sure if it'll push through.

Makes me wonder why people are making a very big fuss over it. Once they release it on PTR however, and lets us play test it? THAT'S the time we can do more than just speculate :)
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A WD with 100k sheet damage doesn't automatically just inflict more pain than the DH with 100k sheet damage. But, people think this instantly when it isn't true.


Oh trust me they do. DH sheet dps (300k unbuffed) vs WD sheet dps (200k unbuffed). WD can cast Pestilience which basically infect every monsters on my screen and deals 30-90k dmg per tick in my case AND I can do so continously, coupled with the main attack; COB and 6% LS on weap, I am able to clear huge mobs (100 monsters) w/o ever dying in about 5-10s. And that is also w/o casting any other skills such as BBV( 20IAS+30% dmg).

Now take my DH, yes I run the most brain-dead spec but I find it to be more efficient in clearing packs. I typically takes 10-15s to clear mobs of equal size. If I were to do the fun thing (SC2 Stutter step), it would add more secs to killing time. Any other specs such as EB will still be inferior to what I run on my WD.

Just my two cents.


I don't think you completely understood what he meant.

What you're talking about is best case scenarios and when you can actually inflict damage upon mobs. The timer to start inflicting damage isn't when you actually reach the mobs, but when the mobs actually enters your screen when it comes to clearing. Lets take your DH and your WD as you use this for your comparison.

Of course in all cases for you, your WD will put out more weapon damage AND reach them faster than your DH does. You play your DH like you would play your WD, and because your DH has no way of putting out weapon damage before your WD does (according to your skill setup), your DH will always be playing catch up in comparison. Then when you are finally able to setup your nuke, it pales in comparison to your WD in the same playground (tanking) which will then spank you DH in output and there's nothing you can do about it.

Now, lets say you decide to slot tactical advantage and vault. Your damage will suffer when you reach the mobs, but now you'll be able to actually setup your DH nuke quite a bit faster than your WD can. Being able to do that effectively increased your potential dps and now it will be up to you to figure out if you can make up for the damage lost once you get there. In fact, most fellow DH friends that run RF bombardment have to slot vault when doing a general run with me otherwise they won't be able to inflict their insane output before I'm wiping the screen clear from a distance while gliding all over the place. They only start becoming useful roughly 6 seconds into an E fight when those said DH's have the time to setup and %%!#@#** house.

Sometimes this can be a pretty big sacrifice, if you see where I'm going with this, however, your WD doesn't have to make such sacrifices. Same for barbs/monks etc. Despite ranged play in general having a bad rep, an effective ranged player can put out insane amounts of weapon damage from nearly off screen, before most classes can get into position and can continuously do so from the moment the mobs enter the screen. This is actually a much bigger advantage than people think, however it's much harder to pull off for a DH in comparison to walking up and setting up and two, the other classes figured out a long time ago how important it is to start dealing your damage ASAP (barb infinite sprint, DS/TR monks) which makes whatever advantage we have sorta minute. This is pretty much in a nutshell why the devs said what they did about the other classes being "out of line" in archons interviews when combined with "infinite" specs.

A great example of what I'm describing would be the runs I did with BubbaGump's WD (He mains a DH) to reach p100. Wish I would have recorded it, but I'm sure he can attest to the difference it makes to be able to put out as much weapon damage as possible as soon as possible nearly off-screen running side by side at the time.

Not a fan of Ghom fights, but this sorta paints the picture I'm talking about.

http://youtu.be/qno6akTtSBw

It took Nyan 8.5 seconds to actually kill ghom from the moment he dealt damage. It took him 13 seconds to kill Ghom the MOMENT he stepped foot in the larder and can move. This meant it took him 4.5 seconds to set up, which is roughly over half his kill time. Now take the "fastest" ghom kill in the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-HptX8CCXE

It took this WD 6.95 seconds (despite the zombie dog hitting ghom at 25 seconds) to actually kill ghom when he was setup. It took him 28 seconds to kill Ghom the MOMENT he entered the larder. This meant it took him nearly 21 seconds of setup time, which is nearly triple the amount of time it took for him to kill Ghom.

Huge difference between the 2 in overall time.

This is not really meant to be a comparison and obviously this is a specific scenario, but many different scenarios in a similar concept exist while we farm and that's where I'm getting at.
Edited by DiEoxidE#1987 on 9/18/2013 12:59 AM PDT
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The timer starts when the fat Nyan sings.
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09/18/2013 12:39 AMPosted by DiEoxidE
The timer to start inflicting damage isn't when you actually reach the mobs, but when the mobs actually enters your screen when it comes to clearing.

Fair enough

09/18/2013 12:39 AMPosted by DiEoxidE
DH friends that run RF bombardment have to slot vault when doing a general run with me otherwise they won't be able to inflict their insane output before I'm wiping the screen clear from a distance while gliding all over the place.

Haha, either your friend need to l2p or you might have exaggerated a little too much.

But anyway, I remember you asking me why I didn't expand on the spec my DH was using, well wasn't really possible due to the hatred problems but with the new ideas that might be implemented, i might just do it.
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09/18/2013 02:01 AMPosted by SwSw
The timer to start inflicting damage isn't when you actually reach the mobs, but when the mobs actually enters your screen when it comes to clearing.

Fair enough

DH friends that run RF bombardment have to slot vault when doing a general run with me otherwise they won't be able to inflict their insane output before I'm wiping the screen clear from a distance while gliding all over the place.

Haha, either your friend need to l2p or you might have exaggerated a little too much.

But anyway, I remember you asking me why I didn't expand on the spec my DH was using, well wasn't really possible due to the hatred problems but with the new ideas that might be implemented, i might just do it.
Nice of you to drop by. Enjoy our hospitality with a refreshing sweet lemonade. :D
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09/18/2013 05:29 AMPosted by Rav1n
Nice of you to drop by. Enjoy our hospitality with a refreshing sweet lemonade. :D

This is the SC forums.

Nice of you to drop by too.
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09/18/2013 05:33 AMPosted by SwSw
Nice of you to drop by. Enjoy our hospitality with a refreshing sweet lemonade. :D

This is the SC forums.

Nice of you to drop by too.
This is the DH forums and is not SC exclusive.
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09/18/2013 05:37 AMPosted by Rav1n

This is the SC forums.

Nice of you to drop by too.
This is the DH forums and is not SC exclusive.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/5386230/

kthxbye
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^ Guys this is your DH who says DH are fine and links a video showing how terrible DH is hahahaha. Hilarious bro.

I don't run MP10 because it's not efficient for my gear.
LMAO, and I don't run MP7 because it's not efficient for my gear, which is what I tried to tell you when I said "I do MP5 with ease". You challenged to run MP7 without SP, which you said you your self can not do. I can. Fail troll is fail.


I did? Please point it out in any of my posts where did I challenge you to do MP7 without SP, I knew before the video you could do it, but with that kind of build you will never be competitive against other class's in terms of farming, you probably do MP5 as fast as I do MP8.

The problem started with how you think DH will be fine because your spec didn't get nerfed at all.

and the speed that you clear is not fine.

A Bow ranged class shouldn't be forced to build tank in RoS that's the problem here.

It's going to be much harder to play a damage spec DH in RoS unless there is a lot more LS% items available for DH. I don't mind the Gloom nerf, I do mind the LS% nerf tho.

I'd rather go monk and be able to build tank/dps at same time or barb even after the nerfs.
Edited by Novuhz#1403 on 9/18/2013 9:16 AM PDT
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09/17/2013 04:05 PMPosted by ZACK
pretty much agree with ravn shadow power is not needed just get a bit of regen and your fine at least its working so far for hardcore


a bit of regen.... you mean loads of hp so he can use the life regen/hp% passive.... while nerfing your farm speed because of lack of damage.

and he is still using smokescreen, you either use shadow power or smokescreen.
Edited by Novuhz#1403 on 9/18/2013 9:18 AM PDT
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09/18/2013 09:14 AMPosted by Novuhz
and the speed that you clear is not fine.


Speed in D3 is well class dependent I would say and player dependent as well.

I'll give you an example.

When I play using my Wiz, i can melt mobs pretty fast but when I move from point A to point B, i choose to walk. Yeah WALK. I know I could just teleport using wormhole to improve my clearing speed but I just couldn't be bothered to do so.

Just my 2 cents. =)
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09/18/2013 09:14 AMPosted by Novuhz
but with that kind of build you will never be competitive against other class's in terms of farming


Why'd you even try to do that? I mean.. even now it's 100% sure that we can't do that. We just can't compete. Even with SNAPSWAP, we can't. To an extent it makes farming faster, but it takes too much control on the game.

09/18/2013 09:14 AMPosted by Novuhz
The problem started with how you think DH will be fine because your spec didn't get nerfed at all.


The problem started when people started comparing DHs to other Classes' FARMING EFFICIENCY in which we, all those that are long time DHers are quite well and aware and have taken it 100% already that we can't farm as fast as them.

That's why we make fun builds that WORKS FOR US. It may not work for you but it doesn't mean it just won't work.

Look at DiE's Build, look at Kiru's Sticky Trap, Nyan's Snapswap RF, and many more..

09/18/2013 09:14 AMPosted by Novuhz
A Bow ranged class shouldn't be forced to build tank in RoS that's the problem here.


Then shouldn't they remove all MELEE range skills in our arsenal and change it to RANGED ones? Look at Traps, they HAVE to ARM first before exploding. Monsters won't wait till they get blown by your traps.

In MP8 and above, mobs WILL get near you :) Even now, we aren't forced to build tank, like I said, there are people that can do RANGED GAMEPLAY UP 99% of the time.

Why all the fcking frown with Melee DH while SNS/CM Wiz doesn't get a kick? I mean they even Teleport INTO the mob and start their piano smashing.

09/18/2013 09:14 AMPosted by Novuhz
It's going to be much harder to play a damage spec DH in RoS unless there is a lot more LS% items available for DH. I don't mind the Gloom nerf, I do mind the LS% nerf tho.
Why would it be even harder? Because we lost the 15% LS? People survived the initial stages of the game where minds and skills were better used than just lame DPS + Mitigation.

Timing your attacks so that they'll hit with full damage while you're invulnerable via Smokescreen.

The gameplay WILL change. It may become harder for you for instance since you might be relying TOO MUCH on the SP's LS. But not all are like you ^_^

Again, look at Barbs, they'll lose their Unli WTOB and unli Fury because TitC and ItF might get CHANGED to !@#$ty stuff.

09/18/2013 09:14 AMPosted by Novuhz
I'd rather go monk and be able to build tank/dps at same time or barb even after the nerfs.


Monks will be better when RoS comes if the changes pushes since all RUNES of FoT will have Thunder Clap's teleport mechanism on them. So have fun with FoT-Quickening with teleport.

Barb, not so much since they'll have to find a way to spam HotA again or even DDT.
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pretty much agree with ravn shadow power is not needed just get a bit of regen and your fine at least its working so far for hardcore


a bit of regen.... you mean loads of hp so he can use the life regen/hp% passive.... while nerfing your farm speed because of lack of damage.

and he is still using smokescreen, you either use shadow power or smokescreen.


I'd like to divert your attention to
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9377488241?page=3#41

as an example.

It's a vid of Mp10 UBER with no SMOKESCREEN. NO POTS, NO SHADOW POWER. NO FOLLOWER.

EDIT: Sorry, wrong link ;) But there's a forum post regarding that. I just can't find it :P
Edited by Chrizzle#1390 on 9/18/2013 9:33 AM PDT
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I am currently reading through some of these changes, and there will be a way to survive without 15% LL for sure for example this wall will buy you the time needed to get Bombardment up...which apparently is being jumped up to...745% at an 11 yd radius?

Or how about cluster grenades that explode in a 36 yd radius?!?! Some of these changes I suspect aren't going to stick b/c they seem kind of ridiculous, but I am excited to try to go back to CA or see how this 745% dmg Bombardment works
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Haha, either your friend need to l2p or you might have exaggerated a little too much.


It's friends btw, and no, I didn't. Happened to the HC guy that had a 3rd party "EDPS" app as well. When he ran with Action and I on HC, his bombardment spec could never get a hit off before mobs were dead, and therefore he had to literally continue to vault in front of us (which meant he had to slot that+prep+NS to keep that up) and be almost a full screen ahead for him to actually deal some damage and get his app to actually work for him. Even then my HA's were reaching the target before he did. Big wake up call when we told him if you're that far behind for dealing damage with us in a DH party, imagine how far you really are with the other classes (CM wiz is the exception in parties). There's a thread in here about it somewhere.

Even the absolute fastest E kill runs/boss runs Nyan will tell you the same thing, as we run together fairly often.

But anyway, I remember you asking me why I didn't expand on the spec my DH was using, well wasn't really possible due to the hatred problems but with the new ideas that might be implemented, i might just do it.


Well, you know why you were having hatred issues lol, but anyways, get to sellin off that wiz while you can. She ain't getting any younger.

When I play using my Wiz, i can melt mobs pretty fast but when I move from point A to point B, i choose to walk. Yeah WALK. I know I could just teleport using wormhole to improve my clearing speed but I just couldn't be bothered to do so.


Lol. Can't be "bothered" to wormhole, really? Wow, nothing really motivates you to do much of anything in this game does it? Haha. :P
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Lol. Can't be "bothered" to wormhole, really? Wow, nothing really motivates you to do much of anything in this game does it? Haha. :P

In a party, there's no point in doing that since others can't keep up.

In solo, is between safe passage/wormhole and Electrify.

Can't really make up my mind anyways.

Well yeah since is pretty much two button spamming anyway.
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Haha, well

Can't really make up my mind anyways.


Both options imo suck because neither involves you selling off your wiz, which is the end goal for you anyways. No point in denying it, so why bother with this access decision making now? You know you want to :D
Edited by DiEoxidE#1987 on 9/18/2013 11:20 AM PDT
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