Diablo® III

"Gain Fury on Critical Hit"

If anyone has a wizard you'll know they have an affix called "Arcane Power on crit" for their items. I was thinking what if barbs were given an affix like this on certain items like swords, helms, shields etc that says "Gain 5-10 fury on critical hit".
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Basically the same mechanics ITF works on, which is being nerfed obviously. I am hoping the devs implement something like this though (fury on crit).

However, I think it would be hilarious since this would mean ITF shouldve never been nerfed in the first place. Basically nerfing mechanics to just place them elsewhere. LOL
Edited by Nived#1902 on 9/15/2013 2:27 PM PDT
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Indeed, since ITF is losing this it would make sense that they're putting it on items such as Barb only helms, shields, weapons or part of IK barb set. I don't think it's a bad thing if they change it up like this to be honest.
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Gotta agree with what Nived said but I wouldn't be surprised if those sort of resource-specific affixes were implemented across classes. The IK set fury regeneration was a beginning.

Other cool ideas would be:
Gain X resource on block - (I think crusader has something like that)
Gain X resouce on crit - (ItF, Wizard's gear, DH's passive)
Gain X resouce whenever you are healed by a health globe - (DH's and WD's passives)

Gain X life per resource spent - which apparently will be the life steal replacement

Increases resourece generation by X% - Like Animosity passive and Paragon Level points.

---

The thing with removing such dominant passives from skills is that in a way it enforces build diversity. Without Into the Fray/No Escape, barbarians will have to either compensate through using a fury generator or put a lot of thought on their itemization choices - such as with fury cost reduction, fury on hit and whatever need passives come up to compensate.
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Like I said, I hope they do implement this as an affix. I just think it would be funny if they did because they just nerfed ITF, which does the same thing.

Then again, if they did implement fury on crit as an affix it would actually be better than ITF since we'll be using a BR rune that grants more DPS (Marauder's Rage/Bloodshed), whilst still getting equal returns in fury.

Also hoping for either the IK set bonus (or another set, maybe Crusader's set?) that grants more fury than the current IK 5pc.

09/15/2013 03:00 PMPosted by Eduw
Gain X resource on block - (I think crusader has something like that)


Each block will return 20 fury, which will make S&B VERY viable.
Edited by Nived#1902 on 9/15/2013 3:06 PM PDT
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Quoting myself on the problem with "resource on crit" skills/affixes

That's why into the fray needed serious reworking. The problem with crit chance in particular, and ias secondarily, is that they provide BOTH utility and raw damage. What Blizzard is gravitating towards in the expansion is tuning affixes and skills to provide one or the other. Fury cost reduction for skills is an example of a utility-based affix. Crit damage is an example of a damage-based affix. Mana regeneration for a witch doctor is an example of where you have to sacrifice damage for utility. If you want to gain more mana regeneration on a witch doctor, you will generally have to give up either some damage or survivability, and that's the type of tradeoff that they want to encourage players to have to make, which is a good thing.
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We will probably get native fury regen and end up with something similar to monks, crusader.
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I think with this emphasis on Life per Fury spent, which is another affix I like actually and it was on a legendary sword (forgot the name) but unfortunately it wasn't viable enough I think having "Fury gained on crit" --> Attack Speed/Crit = Lots of Fury to spend which then = more Life per Fury Spent since you're able to spend your fury fast from high IAS/Crit and that it keeps up with Fury gained from "FoC"
Edited by NOLLegendz#1445 on 9/15/2013 3:15 PM PDT
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Gain X resource on block - (I think crusader has something like that)


Each block will return 20 fury, which will make S&B VERY viable.


I wanted to run this idea by I think to make Shield play styles more encouraging is to add an affix where every time you block you have for example 45% chance to cast down a meteor or reflect 50% damage back. So if you have 50% block chance, every other hit you have a 45% to proc whatever affix, meteor, nova, blizzard, heals, reflect, fury
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The wizard's resource system is very different from the barb. Their arcane power replenishes at a decent rate without any sort of gear, and almost all of their spells cost arcane power. Arcane power on crit only allows them to cast more of all their spells.

On the other side, a great proportion of the barb skills are fury generators, which are completely irrelevant because of Into the Fray. By removing the fury on crit, they give viability back to generators. However, they have to heavily buff most of the barb's spells to make up for that loss. I'm expecting a buff like this on the next PTR patch.

The way to integrate fury on crit in the game would be a trade-off item, for example it would be a one hander that has low dps and poor affixes but gives fury on crit. This opens up new builds but doesn't make the item mandatory.

Team Fortress got it right, it's always good to open up a different play-style, not a straight increase in power that invalidates all the other options.

EDIT: I completely agree with silverfire
Edited by suddenZenith#1265 on 9/15/2013 3:21 PM PDT
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@silverfire

Thats the issue with barbs LOL. Every other class starts a game with FULL resource and the only way we can stay topped off on fury is via ITF. In order to this w/o ITF we have have to gimp our DPS severely, by utilizing fury generating passives, whereas resource regen for other classes rolls on gear (and some classes have quicker regen with certain skills, ie Monk).

I get what you're trying to say about skills/gear need to either do one or the other when it comes to either raw dmg or serving as a utility, but I just dont see how that would be possible tbh. Take my monk for example:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Nived-1902/hero/29500028

The spec I am currently using is for MP9/10 XP runs. This spec has AMAZING synergy. Now with the spirit regen from the Innas 3pc and Innas Radiance (even more sprit regen if im using an SoJ) paired with Crippling wave and Exploding Palm is infinite spirit (not to mention the insane dmg WITHOUT even dropping a bell). This spec is literally the same exact thing as ww/hota.
Edited by Nived#1902 on 9/15/2013 3:29 PM PDT
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Even for items on the wizard for example if a Wizard wants to use Storm Crow for its APoC they're missing out on IAS/AR etc from using Mempo's so the itemization its self should have trade offs
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I agree, there should be some kind of separation from raw damage and utility. I think the only way around this is just to add a completely new affix then where you have x% chance on hit to proc resource generation where it doesn't rely on crit anymore. Infact this could separate out into 2 affixes its self where you have one affix that increases the % chance to proc the resource generation and another affix that increases the amount of resource generation you gain.

So you would have an item with increases chance by 15% to gain resource generation on hit and then another item with gain 5-10 fury from this same affix. Obviously you could get items to stack on top of that 15% to improve it and so on. Heck if they did this the first affix could probably be something that universally applies to all classes where you can remove Arcane power on crit as well.

I think this would help balance out the insane stacking of CC/IAS/CD where now you have a viable resource generator affix that is utility based and just as important competing on itemization.
Edited by NOLLegendz#1445 on 9/15/2013 3:41 PM PDT
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Just a little funny observation from my side.

It looks like we all agree on one thing, that the barbarian class needs one new/other way to generate fury, other then sacking 2-3 passives/skills for it, and using specific gear. (full IK and mighty weapon)

What we don't agree on, is if we will get this new game mechanic.

We have one camp (myself included) that have read the data-mined information up and down, and we just haven't found any sign of this "other way" of gaining fury. Hence we are negative towards the new changes, as our edps will be severely gimped..

The other camp are telling everyone just to relax, and that is no need to make a fuzz about it, as they believe surely blizzard will give us "this other game mechanic" to gain fury. We just haven't read about it yet, because the data-mined information inconclusive.. Hence they stay positive with their fingers crossed.

I really hope the latter camp is right, for the future of all barbarians..
Edited by Det0x#2856 on 9/15/2013 4:24 PM PDT
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I really hope the latter camp is right, for the future of all devs..


Fixed.

They wreck the game...they decrease profits...they look for a new job.
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Each block will return 20 fury, which will make S&B VERY viable.

Since I'm more concerned about finding a new way of spamming HotA, I think that this passive might cover pretty much any concerns I'd have with fury. Combine that with the fact that Crusaders will also be potentially looking for Block Chance synergies and you can already find the affix in legendary rings, helm, waist, pants and a sword.
From the datamined legendaries:
Gain increased damage after stunning an enemy.

Gain 15% increased damage for 3 seconds after blocking an attack.
You take 50% damage from blocked attacks.
When you block an attack, gain 100% chance to also block the next 2 attacks.

First one has some interesting synergy with HotA:Thunderstrike and Seismic Slam:Stagger (specially with the other legendary that decreases its cost to 15). Last one of those is pretty cool. Basically guarantees you'll be getting +40 fury in the future.

Either way, the 10% critical hit chance present in shields will cover the WM/Ruthless changes, HotA cost reduction and a fair 50% block chance (from one-two additional legendaries) might solve the necessity of Into The Fray. Might even get more reduction from Mara's/SoJ or pump up the 20 fury generation to 24 with Animosity. =D
Edited by Eduw#1663 on 9/15/2013 5:34 PM PDT
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The wizard's resource system is very different from the barb. Their arcane power replenishes at a decent rate without any sort of gear, and almost all of their spells cost arcane power. Arcane power on crit only allows them to cast more of all their spells.

On the other side, a great proportion of the barb skills are fury generators, which are completely irrelevant because of Into the Fray. By removing the fury on crit, they give viability back to generators. However, they have to heavily buff most of the barb's spells to make up for that loss. I'm expecting a buff like this on the next PTR patch.

The way to integrate fury on crit in the game would be a trade-off item, for example it would be a one hander that has low dps and poor affixes but gives fury on crit. This opens up new builds but doesn't make the item mandatory.

Team Fortress got it right, it's always good to open up a different play-style, not a straight increase in power that invalidates all the other options.

EDIT: I completely agree with silverfire


Solid analysis there.
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@silverfire

Thats the issue with barbs LOL. Every other class starts a game with FULL resource and the only way we can stay topped off on fury is via ITF. In order to this w/o ITF we have have to gimp our DPS severely, by utilizing fury generating passives, whereas resource regen for other classes rolls on gear (and some classes have quicker regen with certain skills, ie Monk).

I get what you're trying to say about skills/gear need to either do one or the other when it comes to either raw dmg or serving as a utility, but I just dont see how that would be possible tbh. Take my monk for example:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Nived-1902/hero/29500028

The spec I am currently using is for MP9/10 XP runs. This spec has AMAZING synergy. Now with the spirit regen from the Innas 3pc and Innas Radiance (even more sprit regen if im using an SoJ) paired with Crippling wave and Exploding Palm is infinite spirit (not to mention the insane dmg WITHOUT even dropping a bell). This spec is literally the same exact thing as ww/hota.

The thing is, how we start out and whether it degenerates or generates slowly is practically irrelevant. If starting full and not degenerating had a real advantage, everyone would be using 5-IK and unforgiving. But no one does because all that matters is that you're topped off in the heat of battle.

If they changed arcane power to behave like fury, it likely wouldn't affect the synergy of cm/ww much since wizards are also topped off when it counts.

I was trying monk for the first time in about a year last night. Really does seem a lot like ww/hota. 3 piece inna's as an example of having utility on gear. Same as 5 piece IK.

I don't agree that we'd have to gimp it severely. I'd expect we'd need to use one passive related to fury generation, animosity, superstition or unforgiving. That's not really a big deal. We'd have to have more utility on gear. Everyone runs SoJ already, 5 piece IK in addition to that and/or another slot like mara's or skull grasp might be needed in some cases. Also wouldn't really be a big deal in the grand scheme of things. No other class regularly has all 3 passive slots filled by damage boosters. The fact that barbs do is an issue in balance.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 9/16/2013 9:11 AM PDT
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I would like to add one thing about the datamined paragon bonus...

they do include max fury and fury regen %... If you allocate 50 points into it... you could get something like 10 fury / secs, that couple with blk passive for 20 fury might make WW/HOTA viable again...

Animosity, Blk passive + -5 hota soj... it could be spammable with 50 paragon fury...
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HotA is easily spammable with 10 reduction and animosity as it is. People are a little too concerned about fury generation. Every other class has to make some compromise on gear for resource generation except for barb, and its not a big deal.

The biggest impacts of the nerf are on mobility and permanent cc immunity.
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