Diablo® III

Speculate! Absence of AH will mean..

I've been thinking about this the last few hours.

The problem with Diablo 3 was never that the AH made trading official, or too efficient. The issue has always been that the loot drop system is so bad, making the AH a virtual requirement for playing the game at all. But loot dropping is supposedly being improved in RoS (though I hope we're not moving too far to the other extreme of the spectrum, the console's flood-of-legendaries).

In addition, it's clear that Blizzard is making many more items BoA in RoS. From what I understand, items modified by the Mystic will be BoA. Demonic Essences are BoA, and I expect several other important crafting and enchanting ingredients to become BoA as well. Crafted items are BoA. If much of the best gear and much of the ingredients required to make the best gear is BoA, it can't be sold anyway, even if we kept the AH.

These changes will (hopefully) significantly reduce our reliance on the AH, to the point that removing it is not really necessary, and will not have much effect on the game as a whole.

However, removing the AH will have an effect on the part of the game that it's meant to influence: trading. I for one rather like that trading is easy and safe nowadays. (Safe except for the 0 gold auction bug, anyway...) I'm not looking forward to once again joining random WTS or WTB games in hopes of finding someone who isn't asking too much for their items, or offering too little for mine.

You only need to look at the AH today to see how many people are absolutely clueless about the true value of items. People selling items for 10 times their true worth is the rule, not the exception. Forums are marginally better than trading games, but searching through them is still much harder than it needs to be, and comparing different items to each other is all but impossible.

On the bright side, a lot has changed over the past 13 years, since the release of Diablo 2, both in gaming and on the internet. We are not stuck with trade games and forums. I see no reason why someone could not implement the Diablo 3 AH as a third party website, allowing people to put items up for sale, search for items and filter them by affixes and cost. It wouldn't be quite as convenient as the current ingame AH, but it could do the job. Indeed, such sites already exist, and I imagine their userbase will grow explosively when RoS hits.

Ultimately, the removal of the AH will have less impact on the game than people think, because the presence of the AH wasn't what caused the problem in the first place. The AH just exacerbated a different problem: the crappiness of the item and drop systems. The fact (hope) that Blizzard are fixing those problems already makes us less reliant on the AH. Removing the AH on top of those changes is neither necessary nor particularly important. In short: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDGlN6mluGA
Edited by mzy#1101 on 9/18/2013 1:25 AM PDT
Reply Quote
09/17/2013 08:23 PMPosted by GunnersDream
With Transmog coming, I think they are probably going to sell cosmetics. Worked like a charm in TF2.

I don't think that comparison is good. The two games are very, very different, even on an abstract level.

TF2 is at heart a game that's driven by the skill of the player. Sure, there are weapons that change the way your character should be played, but they're so common that everyone has access to them and so they're not very important, to neither the game nor the players. They can therefore serve a cosmetic purpose, because there is no other function for them to have.

Diablo 3, on the other hand, is an item-driven game. Player skill, while not irrelevant, is by no means the deciding factor, especially in PvM/PvE. I can do very well in TF2 with the default weapons. No one can even play Diablo 3 without good items, let alone do well. What I want from my Diablo 3 items is that they allow me to kick butt. Looking good is a very, very distant second. I can imagine myself paying for good items in Diablo 3, but not for pretty ones.
Edited by mzy#1101 on 9/18/2013 1:34 AM PDT
Reply Quote
09/17/2013 01:16 PMPosted by Boozor
Also to casual players wow this is a massive blow to weekend warriors or guys that CANT grind all time.


Yep, I feel like I just got nerfed in the future..then again I will be working less in 6 months but not THAT much more..
Reply Quote
Earlier today, I thought, "Hmm... it'd be great to get I to the gem market now because its one of the only items that won't decrease in value.. everyone will still need them for the same purpose.."

Then I realised... no AH.. aside from trading, good luck on picking up enough gems for a radiant star gem.. then x3 for a marquise.. I don't want to salvage EVERYTHING just for those required essence..

And yeah.. casual players will drop off faster now. If this move to remove AH is from SF players, then I think it's a terrible decision. SF players make up a very small population of the game.. everyone else uses AH. Scamming will be the new hot topic of the forums in a way that Blizzard can't monitor. Afterall, at least AH is safe(r), minus that 0g exploit.
Reply Quote
Murderma-

The amount of materials needed to craft a rad star is...daunting.

729 FSQ so you can make
243 perfect squares so you can make
81 radiant squares so you can make
27 stars so you can make
9 flawless stars so you can make
3 perfect stars so you can make
1 Rad star.

Multiply all the above gem requirements by 3 for a marquise.

I don't know about you all, but I typically never find more than 5 of any particular FSQ gem type over the course of an hour of farming....but let's just say that number was 10 per hour. It would take me somewhere around 73 hours, or "around" three 24 hour- farm sessions, to acquire the gems. But I still need 1600+ tomes.... 246 hours, or a little over TEN STRAIGHT DAYS, for a marquise. If I were to farm 2 hours a day, it would take me about 123 days. That's sick.

So as long as embryonic stem cell research continues to advance, extending my life by, oh I don't know, a few HUNDRED YEARS, gems will be incredibly valuable..

Of course, they could make it so perf squares drop in inferno. That would shorten the craft process dramatically...and still be a crazy amount of time.
Reply Quote
MVP
Posts: 6,226
View profile
Speculate! Absence of AH will mean..


Less time on AH, more time on Mumble with JenPeezey?
________________________________________________
Diablo III Wizard MVP | My street cred is limited to the friendly confines of the wiz forum
CM/SNS Wizard Guide: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8728753771
Danger: Please do not feed the trolls!
Reply Quote
09/18/2013 06:33 AMPosted by PieHole
Speculate! Absence of AH will mean..


Less time on AH, more time on Mumble with JenPeezey?
________________________________________________
Diablo III Wizard MVP | My street cred is limited to the friendly confines of the wiz forum
CM/SNS Wizard Guide: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8728753771
Danger: Please do not feed the trolls!


i see what you did there...
Reply Quote
Finally, people who play more will likely get rewarded for it. As it should be with anything as grindy as this game.
Reply Quote
09/18/2013 06:44 AMPosted by BDF
Finally, people who play more will likely get rewarded for it. As it should be with anything as grindy as this game.
Reply Quote
09/18/2013 06:45 AMPosted by pichapie
Finally, people who play more will likely get rewarded for it. As it should be with anything as grindy as this game.


pich, we need to be friends
Reply Quote
09/18/2013 06:33 AMPosted by PieHole
Less time on AH, more time on Mumble with JenPeezey?


That's what I'm looking forward to! ... ummm, just skip this comment Melkor. I don't want your derision... you didn't read this... I'm not the droid you're looking for... go about your business...
Reply Quote
Murderma-

The amount of materials needed to craft a rad star is...daunting.

729 FSQ so you can make
243 perfect squares so you can make
81 radiant squares so you can make
27 stars so you can make
9 flawless stars so you can make
3 perfect stars so you can make
1 Rad star.

Multiply all the above gem requirements by 3 for a marquise.

I don't know about you all, but I typically never find more than 5 of any particular FSQ gem type over the course of an hour of farming....but let's just say that number was 10 per hour. It would take me somewhere around 73 hours, or "around" three 24 hour- farm sessions, to acquire the gems. But I still need 1600+ tomes.... 246 hours, or a little over TEN STRAIGHT DAYS, for a marquise. If I were to farm 2 hours a day, it would take me about 123 days. That's sick.

So as long as embryonic stem cell research continues to advance, extending my life by, oh I don't know, a few HUNDRED YEARS, gems will be incredibly valuable..

Of course, they could make it so perf squares drop in inferno. That would shorten the craft process dramatically...and still be a crazy amount of time.

hahaha that is some lol sh!t. The most gems I ever remember picking up was two 100 stacks of FSQ Topaz back in 1.03. I kept thinking, "almost there!"... then realised I didn't have the gold to craft the next tier gem.

If I was a hoarder, I should start clearing out my stash and start picking up gems. Right now, it's the only safe investment since it'll function exactly the same and still have the same demand.

Hmm... would I be able to grab that spreadsheet off you as well?
Reply Quote
09/17/2013 02:06 PMPosted by Malakai
Also to casual players wow this is a massive blow to weekend warriors or guys that CANT grind all time.


I have more sympathy for the guys that currently farm all day, who don't have the real-life money to buy gold or items on RMAH, and who have absolutely nothing to show for it on their character because finding good gear for your own toon in this game just doesn't really happen.

Pay-to-win in any game is just freaking stupid. It's already bad enough that people with lots of money in real life have more advantages than the rest, and for that real-life advantage to carry over to a videogame and for those people to be the top players is just absurd. More time spent playing a game should always equal greater rewards than those who can't put the same amount of time into it. People like Pichapie who have put an enormous amount of time into the game should be among the best, not they guys that have the largest disposable real-life income. If you can't dedicate the time to a game like this, then you should learn to be content with not being among the best geared.

Besides... with the upcoming changes to the way loot will drop in the game, people really shouldn't be overly concerned with having to farm 8 hours or more a day, 7 days a week to be decently geared. And from the data-mined stuff, it looks like they might let us set up guilds or clans or whatever, which can give players a good method of trading amongst people they trust. Hell, if they let us set up a guild, we can always just make one comprised of the folks from this here Wizard message board and trade amongst ourselves. I think it might actually be pretty fun.


Best post in thread.
Reply Quote
That's what I'm looking forward to! ... ummm, just skip this comment Melkor. I don't want your derision... you didn't read this... I'm not the droid you're looking for... go about your business...


You guys are too cute!
Reply Quote
Predictions... At the moment at least.

Gold will either:
1) (IF they greatly reduce crafting costs and/or increase gold drops) Become worthless. The "currency" for trade will move to Gems or some other difficult to farm commodity.
or, more likely
2) (IF they leave things as they are) Become significantly more valuable than it is right now. The cost of gem crafting alone right now outpaces the rate of gold income from farming. Also remember that you will not be able to easily sell items to increase your income per session while farming.

Gems:
Almost certainly going to increase in value unless they make big cuts to the crafting costs.

Gameplay:
Yes, we will farm more. Much, much more. At the same time, our farming runs will be much slower. We will be stopping to pick up all kinds of things we didn't before and we will be making much more frequent trips to town to sell and salvage because it will now be the only way to get crafting materials outside of a frustrating trade scenario. Yes, we will value the drops more but that will also be in large part due having no other easy, convenient way to otherwise obtain supplies.

Pichapie will rule the world.

Gear:
I have little doubt it will be better on average. Expect the average gearing level/quality on players to level out. Also expect to have more "holes" in your gear that you cannot plug without resorting to 3rd party trading sites, etc. Those who want to progress past a certain point or surpass the median are in for a frustrating, time consuming and possibly more expensive process.

At some point the majority of existing players will say "Hmmm... I miss the Auction House. This is a pain in the !@#$".

-dolynick
Edited by dolynick#1290 on 9/18/2013 8:17 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Also to casual players wow this is a massive blow to weekend warriors or guys that CANT grind all time.


I have more sympathy for the guys that currently farm all day, who don't have the real-life money to buy gold or items on RMAH, and who have absolutely nothing to show for it on their character because finding good gear for your own toon in this game just doesn't really happen.

Pay-to-win in any game is just freaking stupid. It's already bad enough that people with lots of money in real life have more advantages than the rest, and for that real-life advantage to carry over to a videogame and for those people to be the top players is just absurd. More time spent playing a game should always equal greater rewards than those who can't put the same amount of time into it. People like Pichapie who have put an enormous amount of time into the game should be among the best, not they guys that have the largest disposable real-life income. If you can't dedicate the time to a game like this, then you should learn to be content with not being among the best geared.

Besides... with the upcoming changes to the way loot will drop in the game, people really shouldn't be overly concerned with having to farm 8 hours or more a day, 7 days a week to be decently geared. And from the data-mined stuff, it looks like they might let us set up guilds or clans or whatever, which can give players a good method of trading amongst people they trust. Hell, if they let us set up a guild, we can always just make one comprised of the folks from this here Wizard message board and trade amongst ourselves. I think it might actually be pretty fun.

People can play any damn way they want. If they don't have time to play and decide paying x amount to cover for z time wasted to acquire y gear, who are you to say that's stupid? They are simply optimising their time/money. Is it rewarding picking up 729 FSQ gems to make a radiant? Hell no. It's dry as bark and no one cares for it.

People who pay to win probably think grinders are crazy and stupid for wasting all that time.

Since this isn't really a game of skill, there are short cuts to reach goals faster. So much hate against the "pay to win" mentality when it's just another way to play the game. If person A isn't willing to pay real money to advance in the game more quickly, then they can't complain. That's all there is to it.

What I'm saying is that removing AH will cut out those people and they may be more likely to drop the game because they can't compensate for time in game v others who can.

If it's really hurting the longevity of the game, then it just shows how shallow the game is in terms of content. Introduce immunities and RMAH bought gear will still have trouble. Simple things that Blizzard have already introduced in the past that have gone a long way.

Maybe removing the AHs will be a good thing if Loot 2.0 is decent enough, but I still don't see the problem with people who've spent real money in the game.
Reply Quote
I had the AH bug once, not being able to buy anything until I cleared everything from ah and then waited for the next server reboot.

I found myself once more picking up crafting materials, crap that I would have otherwise left on the ground and then soon after I stopped and searched for someone to sell THOUSANDS of them to me.

I think they should include a Trading Post of sorts for commodities. Something to make ridiculous amounts (thousands) of gems and other crafting materials accessible.
Reply Quote
I strongly doubt anyone who is going to miss the AH once ROS hits.

If ladders end up being a real thing then that’s even better. I love the idea of starting fresh.

Even though my gear is not spectacular by any means an average player who does not use the AH looks at my gear and goes huh… right off the bat they are feeling discouraged.

Not only that, but it was pointless for them to farm with me since I would just decimate the playing field.

As far as the usage of 3rd party sites. If someone wants to go through that much hassle to get a weapon that’s ok by me. If it was that easy people wouldn’t care about the AH being closed.

If we lose players because they are discouraged that they have to farm that is more than ok by me.

I would trade 100 AH Warriors for 1 Game Warrior.
Reply Quote
Coming from AH warrior:

09/18/2013 08:53 AMPosted by Neoshinji
I strongly doubt anyone who is going to miss the AH once ROS hits.

agreed. If AH is not there, I don't think I would miss it either.

As far as the usage of 3rd party sites. If someone wants to go through that much hassle to get a weapon that’s ok by me. If it was that easy people wouldn’t care about the AH being closed.


most likely I won't go through the hassle of 3rd party sites.

09/18/2013 08:53 AMPosted by Neoshinji
If we lose players because they are discouraged that they have to farm that is more than ok by me.


I might get discouraged if I can't grind and can't find gg loots.

09/18/2013 08:53 AMPosted by Neoshinji
I would trade 100 AH Warriors for 1 Game Warrior.


AH warriors are completely fine with me. It's respectable to grind in game and also respectable to find a gg items in AH.
Edited by yodatoy#1838 on 9/18/2013 9:00 AM PDT
Reply Quote
09/18/2013 08:53 AMPosted by Neoshinji
I strongly doubt anyone who is going to miss the AH once ROS hits.


You are completely forgetting the fact that no matter how good or how much better RoS drops are, there is always going to be an average quality level in drops. The plateau might be higher but it is unavoidable that once you reach it, moving beyond it and progressing further up the "what is possible" scale becomes harder and harder - to the point where it isn't feasible or worth the time it would take through farming. As soon as you reach that point, you're into trading. The AH was just an organized, standardized means of trading. I pretty much guarrantee it will be missed in that regard.

Otherwise, your post reeks of elitist "if you don't play and farm the way I think you should" nonsense. It stinks.

-dolynick
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]