Paragon 2.0 - Not account wide

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11/05/2013 01:40 PMPosted by Cyberbeni
Just make it, so we can spend out points in any category and not 1 point in every category every 4 levels.


I think this would only be applicable if they made it character-based and not account based.
The ladders are coming, it will all be fine.
Definitely DEFINITELY keep Paragon 2.0 exactly as you are currently planning it right now. I am still interesting in knowing the experience curve though.
Posted by DREADY
you are not forced to use your paragon points i think , so if you want to play like that i don't see why you can't just don't use your points on a fresh character .


False

When I hit 60/70 with that new char. His exp will show the main paragon pool. Not his own with his own level ups.

Now its..."oh great, I hit 70. Now hes in the same boat as the rest of my chars where it is 3 billion exp to level 204."


I didn't realize this was how it was going to function. I have to say I prefer the current system of each character being able to level to 100 paragon over this.
@Op Monty11

You are isolating 1 aspect, the XP pool as the only fresh and unique element of a character where its clear there are many others to mess around with and consider

I would debate 3 of your keypoints:

1.
11/05/2013 08:17 AMPosted by Monty11
The whole point of starting a new character is to start the game fresh. Maybe you found some good low level legendarys and a have a nice hellfire ring...but the point is to start from level 1...not 91.


This seems to be your main keypoint, "to start fresh" I think its a very ambigious one that can be interpreted on a ton of different ways,

A fresh start can come with many other aspects , just a class change means different skills and different lore, different play experience, just a single unique drop means different strategies and different strenghts and weaknesses. I dont see how just being able to start from level 1 to where your previous character already was adds anything significantly new and fresh.

2.
11/05/2013 08:17 AMPosted by Monty11
-No sense of accomplishment (no level cap = no goal. One of the most attractive features of an RPG is hitting that max level. Nothing better than that feelings.


And theres nothing worse and more disheartening after realizing theres nothing else you can do for your character (at least in therms of level).
With infinite levels the goals will still exist I assure you, wheter its a distinctive breakpoint made by you or the comunity (like being 200, 300,400 etc), or a goal set by gameplay mechanics, IE getting a special reward at level 150,250,350 etc.

3.
11/05/2013 08:17 AMPosted by Monty11
No INDIVIDUALITY (every char we make should be unique. The shared system takes away from that sense. all chars have the same EXP pool (once they hit 60/70)).


Again, Individuality can come with many other aspects, paragon 2.0 stats are not the only thing that will make unique a character, there is the name, the gear equipment ( with possibly interesting skill bonuses), the kill/death records, and now also the looks .
I'm actually wondering if there is some miscommunication surrounding paragon 2.0. The way I understand it when you get a paragon level you get to choose which character you spend the point on, but it doesn't have to be the character you earned it with. Is this correct? Or are the benefits of paragon levels shared across all max-level characters??

Avixious are you able to clarify? If you simply get to choose which character gets the point then the OP's question is I think moot. Otherwise, yes, it would be awfully weird to start a "new" character and have that character with access to the paragon pool of stat increases.
@ o.p I disagree , I want account wide paragon and I want to be able to respect at will,no need to gimp those of us that have a favorite char and want to be able to change things up or fix something that isn't working.the account wide points allows me to be able to buff the chars that I have that I feel might be lagging be hind.Seriously if you want a fresh start then play ladder, i'm really looking forward to new paragon 2.0 and r.o.s. because of the freedom I feel these features will add.it just feels more fun to me to be able to do that.These also have the added benefit of not being so gear driven , a little more flexible , adjustable if I find bis gear , I think that's the intent behind this new system . Gimp yourself if you wan't but leave me out of it.Peace
'Don't use the system if you don't like it' continues to be a really bad argument.
People shouldn't have to blindfold themselves, set up funny rules of playing without hands, or don't increase their characters power, to circumvent potential issues with a game.


So by arguing this way you are saying that because you don't like a feature then no one should have it? Having a choice to use those points or not is always better than having no choice at all.

Allowing a fresh start with no paragon, through ladder, is a good thing though - it would kinda ruin ladder if it wasn't a totally fresh start.
Paragon should still be shared between the ladder characters you make, and added to your non-ladder paragon pool after the season ends.


Very much agreed here. Fresh starts via ladder is the only way to go for Paragon points.
With the majority of players projected to go into ladder, you get your fresh start anyway OP.
Paragon 2.0 is the only reason I started playing again. Gives me something to do atleast until this game is fixed. Take away account wide status and I have no reason to play again until xpac.
Kirishima
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With the majority of players projected to go into ladder, you get your fresh start anyway OP.


Of course.....
but what about a second ladder character.

Lets say I have a paragon 83 crusader and i want to start a new ladder-DH.
DH hits 70....then bam....he is now level p83 also...with all of the benefits of paragon 83.

Unfair to people who have only been playing DH.
And again, loss of that individuality. My DH's experience is now that of my paragon pool, not of an individual character. I just dont like that concept I guess.

EDIT: This also means that ladders per class are skewed. Yea, exp could only go toward the ladder only when you are playing that specific class...but it kind of ruins the whole concept when other characters progress (IE paragon exp) counts toward the character I am using.
I heartily disagree with the OP. i have a P100 and a P96, and leveling up the second one
- was a stupid grind
- felt subjectively like i was missing out on drops
- felt like I played a gimped character
while playing the first one felt like there being no progress whatsoever.

Account-wide paragon is great. Respeccing is also great. And completely optional. If you want to play "purist mode" - don't use these options. But don't try to screw over the rest of us, please.


Your opinion is subjective, I have a buddy with 4 paragon 100's who is going for his 5th... 3 of them are WD's and he claims to have loved every minute of it.
That's what ladder is for.

Keep paragon account wide, if you want out play ladder. Simple as that.


Ok for the first ladder character this applies.

Now I hit paragon 83 on my ladder Crusader and I want to start a Wiz.
When my wizzy hits 60/70 he is automatically now level 83. My crusader now also gets more powerful playing my wiz.

Again, no individuality between characters. Its too much of a free handout. My wizard gets free damage and mf and crit and whatever else and he just jumps up the ladder (dps based/exp based..obviously how the ladder works will play an effect on this argument).

All my chars become the same, Grinding the same exp pool.
A new char should be a new exp pool. simple as that.
Level cap = goal. No level cap = no goal. Hitting that cap is a sense of accomplishment. It is one of the best feelings in a video game (first time I achieved that feeling was Cloud hitting level 99 in FF7).


I couldn't word it better myself.
How I'd like to see it (from suggestions i've read so far)

-Account wide total paragon 2.0 level, no max
-Separate Hero Paragon Levels, max 100 each
-No respec, experience not lost from deleted heros.

-Paragon 2.0 levels add points to two of the designed tabs (ie mf/gf)
-Hero Paragon levels add points to the other two tabs

Reasoning:
I have 10 lvl 60s as proof I enjoy creating new guys, and want to see worth in it, but i know this is old school D2 style play. I want a reason to level each one up, but still want the mf/gf equal so that paragon leveling alternates doesn't reduce drops by a large margin.
I'm actually wondering if there is some miscommunication surrounding paragon 2.0. The way I understand it when you get a paragon level you get to choose which character you spend the point on, but it doesn't have to be the character you earned it with. Is this correct? Or are the benefits of paragon levels shared across all max-level characters??

Avixious are you able to clarify? If you simply get to choose which character gets the point then the OP's question is I think moot. Otherwise, yes, it would be awfully weird to start a "new" character and have that character with access to the paragon pool of stat increases.


The current system they are building would allow you to apply a stat to EACH character for EACH paragon level attributed to your account.
What I find amusing is that this is the exact same argument as gear swapping a year ago. Blizzard simply moved the problem of mf onto character points instead of character gear. They came up with paragon to phase out mf and then they didn't bother. The reason people feel they are losing out on an alt is because they lose out on the mf. Both character bound and account wide paragon are bad options due to mf.
How I'd like to see it (from suggestions i've read so far)

-Account wide total paragon 2.0 level, no max
-Separate Hero Paragon Levels, max 100 each
-No respec, experience not lost from deleted heros.

-Paragon 2.0 levels add points to two of the designed tabs (ie mf/gf)
-Hero Paragon levels add points to the other two tabs

Reasoning:
I have 10 lvl 60s as proof I enjoy creating new guys, and want to see worth in it, but i know this is old school D2 style play. I want a reason to level each one up, but still want the mf/gf equal so that paragon leveling alternates doesn't reduce drops by a large margin.


I like this idea, but personally I think they only thing the account-wide paragon should attribute to is GF/MF. Everything else is a stat that can potentially add some form of customization, GIVEN that there is currently a cap and each character has it's own level. If not hell, might aswell just give us all the full buffs now...
Whats with you people and your goal oriented hand holding. With all the changes being put in there, you will have plenty to strive for on new/fresh characters.

Do rules, barriers, obstacles really give you enough to continue playing? Or has that illusion of choice and decisions made it enigmatic to the point you feel the need to force them to program their way into your accomplishments?
How I'd like to see it (from suggestions i've read so far)

-Account wide total paragon 2.0 level, no max
-Separate Hero Paragon Levels, max 100 each
-No respec, experience not lost from deleted heros.

-Paragon 2.0 levels add points to two of the designed tabs (ie mf/gf)
-Hero Paragon levels add points to the other two tabs

Reasoning:
I have 10 lvl 60s as proof I enjoy creating new guys, and want to see worth in it, but i know this is old school D2 style play. I want a reason to level each one up, but still want the mf/gf equal so that paragon leveling alternates doesn't reduce drops by a large margin.

I like this idea, but personally I think they only thing the account-wide paragon should attribute to is GF/MF. Everything else is a stat that can potentially add some form of customization, GIVEN that there is currently a cap and each character has it's own level. If not hell, might aswell just give us all the full buffs now...


Agreed. Good compromise for both sides of the original argument.
Whats with you people and your goal oriented hand holding. With all the changes being put in there, you will have plenty to strive for on new/fresh characters.

Do rules, barriers, obstacles really give you enough to continue playing? Or has that illusion of choice and decisions made it enigmatic to the point you feel the need to force them to program their way into your accomplishments?


... You seem to have no understanding of the changes being made... That or troll post. Either way major failsauce
Veracruz
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Whats with you people and your goal oriented hand holding. With all the changes being put in there, you will have plenty to strive for on new/fresh characters.

Do rules, barriers, obstacles really give you enough to continue playing? Or has that illusion of choice and decisions made it enigmatic to the point you feel the need to force them to program their way into your accomplishments?

... You seem to have no understanding of the changes being made... That or troll post. Either way major failsauce


lol

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