*5* Things The Anti BOA Crowd Don't Seem To Realize:

General Discussion
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12/04/2013 06:05 PMPosted by Lenyo
I don't get the whole BoA support thing..

Doesn't it just come down to the tuning of the drops? If there is BoA and a huge breadth of items then ??? The tuning has to be console level silliness.

Can the drops just be tuned such that without BoA players will find something they want OR something they can trade in a decent timeframe. IE the gap now between what you find in some respectable timeframe and what is a really good item is silly and condones bots and third party trade.

Simply narrow the gap by the right amount, remove BoA and increase play options.
That has been tried already, And trust me they will then complain that the drop rate is too high and items have very little to no value. You have to understand what is really going on here. It's all about the money.
11/16/2013 08:33 AMPosted by Starbird

1) Not everything will be BoA.

Unmodified rares and the like will still be freely trade-able from what we know.

2) Rares will still be good.

While legendaries and sets will generally be better, from what we've seen from datamining there will likely be some awesome rares too, and more than likely a near perfect rare could end up being near BiS. Again, we know nothing for sure yet, but this seems to be a reasonable assumption at this point.

Especially post droprate nerf in the Beta, you are probably going to be quite happy to get an awesome rare.

3) You can still trade with your friends in the same game.

If an item drops in a game with a friend, you can trade it and help them out if they need it. Many of us are suggesting something similar being done with clans.

4) Account selling and botting won't become *that* widely spread.

At least nowhere near the extent that item selling is now. Sure, you will always have an extreme minority who will spend ages bypassing the system to do this, but there are a *lot* of safeguards to prevent account trading, and doing it runs a massive risk of getting ripped off.

Botting is another issue entirely. But one of the major reasons that botters are so common is due to how easy it is to sell gold and gear. If that stuff was all BoA, not only would there be less incentive to do it, there would also be a *lot* more risk.

5) Trading does affect others.

Far too many people seem to think that if unrestricted trading is allowed with loot drops balanced around self found, that people can just choose to opt out of it.

Thing is, as I've said in another thread...probably the most common 'goal' in D3 is to have a Powerful Character. And in games like this, power is relative. Trading will give a massive advantage, and thus for anyone wanting to play the game 'right'...there would be a serious incentive to trade.


Others have addressed points 1 and 2 pretty well; in short, I don't see the evidence that rares will remain relevant. Point 4 i won't really argue against. So,

3) I think this system would appeal to a lot more people if this constraint were loosened. Doesn't even need to be your whole friend list, maybe just friends who you've logged X number of hours play with. Being able to trade with people in the same (single) chat channel with you could be cool to. There are any number of creative ways to expand this to a reasonable number of people beyond the 3 who just happen to be with you at the moment you find a good item.

5) Trading does affect others... as it should! Trading rewards knowledge of the game. The ability to make a smart trade depends on your familiarity with trends in the community, popular builds, ideal rolls, possible stats to roll on each slot, etc. Why is the mode of progressing which depends on this kind of knowledge seen as less legitimate than a zeal for grinding alone for endless hours? once you can grind mp10, you can grind mp10. The 5th or 50th run is no more difficult than the 1st. I'm all for rewarding players who log more hours, but it doesn't imply that they are more skillful or that other players shouldn't have access to other modes of progression. And maybe i'm nuts, but i LIKE seeing players better than myself. I like any feature of the game that increases not only my feeling of having a Powerful Character, but also the potential awesomeness of what the MOST POWERFUL CHARACTER looks like. so the fact that you're pointing out, that power is relative, is an aspect of endgame for me. if BiS items are all BoA, then as soon as i can complete the highest difficulty setting, the game is over. I want to see people stretching the upper limits of power, because then even if i can beat the game at its hardest, i still have that dangling bate of "yeah, but i'm not as good as THAT guy!" In a way, it's the exchangeability of items that makes the feeling of having a Powerful Character possible at all. If everyone's items are permanently their own, what's the point of comparing yourself to others? Nobody cares how fast you can complete a game of solitaire.

I should clarify, i'm as happy to see the RMAH go as anyone. I actually thought the GAH was a great addition, but i would be content to go back to D2-style trading, with a few BoA additions. Crafted BoA stuff makes perfect sense. The targeted/tailored drops would also make sense as BoA. But part of my interest in Diablo has always been that when you see someone with an awesome item, there's that little tickling thought at the back of your mind, "that item could be mine!" With trading you can work your way up to those big items with a tangible indicator of your progress. BoA seems so all-or-nothing. I was always on the lower mid range of players in D2, but i have fond memories of building up stashes of gems for an SoJ or two, then stashed of SoJs for the next big thing i wanted.

I don't see why a ladder system wouldn't be sufficiently satisfying to self-found players. I completely agree that you're entitled to a rewarding game experience while playing self-found, but "a rewarding game experience" is not synonymous with "being in the top tier of elite players."
11/16/2013 08:33 AMPosted by Starbird
1) Not everything will be BoA


Corrent: left are blue/rare. The crap nobody needs lol.

11/16/2013 08:33 AMPosted by Starbird
2) Rares will still be good.


Good compared to vanilla D3? yes, Good in RoS? No. Legendarys will be superior and nobody cares about rares or blues, nothing to see here.

11/16/2013 08:33 AMPosted by Starbird
3) You can still trade with your friends in the same game.


You kidding right? few hour window to trade/give free to max. 3 ppl that are forced to be online, forced to play in one game and forced to not afk? I find somthing friend is looking for but he's afk in menu, what happens --> maximum trolled.
This feature is a joke.

11/16/2013 08:33 AMPosted by Starbird
4) Account selling and botting won't become *that* widely spread.


Why should i care about what others do? Let the childs 20000 miles away do whatever he want, nobody cares.

11/16/2013 08:33 AMPosted by Starbird
5) Trading does affect others.


No it doesnt.

0/10, wouldnt read again.
12/04/2013 05:52 PMPosted by AvantGarde
...what?

I have no idea what you are saying here.

Are you actually comparing BoA in a video game to robbing a store IRL?

I'm not even sure how to respond to this, lol.

That said, the Black Market exists. Right now it even exists alongside the RMAH. Without the RMAH it will control the upper tiers of the game, much like it did in D2.

Plus, BoA, especially after the recent nerfs, does not mean getting showered with BIS goodies. How many people even *with* trading had legit Zod runes in D2?


you are full of fallacy. first thing i never said about robbing a store. pfft (I can click "Next" on you. nn waste time)

Second point, self-found/boa don't give a damn about trade and care about their own progression in their lil' pony world, do they? so now they are bothered with other people trading? hmmm makes a lot of sense... NOT LOL.

Third point. DO YOU EVEN D2? lol. How can you compare d2 drop rates and loot system with the upcoming D3 Ros system? lol. invalidated :)

Avoidance to the questions only proves more guilt.


Either you are trolling or I'm not following your argument. You actually said:
Loots were a private good and everyone has to farm it hard or buy it to gain it.
From what i see ros, loots are now public goods and everyone is entitled no matter how little they work for it. Just like walking over to some store a few blocks away and taking whatever you want without paying


Actually yes you did mention robbing stores.

I played D2 for years. I was deeply involved with Modding in LOD and while I never won Ladder, I did rather well for someone who never bought gear and seldom Traded.

I. Am. Not. Against. Trading. If we could trade without the scamming, the Pay2Win and the various other negative effects of it, I would be all for it.

But we can't.

A compromise like Clantrade or Bind on Trade...I wouldn't mind in the least.

On the offchance I'm not being trolled:

- Do you consider paying real money for gear acceptable?
- Do you consider scamming acceptable?

You've said in other threads that RM trading is fine and actually a good thing for the game. Which is why I'm not sure if we can talk productively.

12/04/2013 06:05 PMPosted by Lenyo
I don't get the whole BoA support thing..

Doesn't it just come down to the tuning of the drops? If there is BoA and a huge breadth of items then ??? The tuning has to be console level silliness.

Can the drops just be tuned such that without BoA players will find something they want OR something they can trade in a decent timeframe. IE the gap now between what you find in some respectable timeframe and what is a really good item is silly and condones bots and third party trade.

Simply narrow the gap by the right amount, remove BoA and increase play options.


Again, in a perfect world FreeTrade would be fine. But it isn't a perfect world and so we get inundated with things like D2Jsp and scammers.

I would not be unhappy if we got some form of trading, but on a purely objective level - BoA is probably better for the game.
12/04/2013 07:47 PMPosted by Odin
Corrent: left are blue/rare. The crap nobody needs lol.


Rares are looking to be very decent. Possibly even close to BIS in some cases.

12/04/2013 07:47 PMPosted by Odin
Good compared to vanilla D3? yes, Good in RoS? No. Legendarys will be superior and nobody cares about rares or blues, nothing to see here.


How about we see what the Beta/PTR blues look like?

I can currently get 1,000,000+ for a decently itemized lowbie Blue shoulder or ring/ammy. Trust me, nothing is useless.

12/04/2013 07:47 PMPosted by Odin
You kidding right? few hour window to trade/give free to max. 3 ppl that are forced to be online, forced to play in one game and forced to not afk? I find somthing friend is looking for but he's afk in menu, what happens --> maximum trolled.This feature is a joke.


A lot of us (me included) are asking for this to be Clanwide.

12/04/2013 07:47 PMPosted by Odin
Why should i care about what others do? Let the childs 20000 miles away do whatever he want, nobody cares.


So Blizzard shouldn't bother banning hackers and botters?

Gotcha.

12/04/2013 07:47 PMPosted by Odin
No it doesnt.


Your well structured and compelling arguements have swayed me.

But not really.
12/04/2013 08:17 PMPosted by Starbird

How about we see what the Beta/PTR blues look like?

I can currently get 1,000,000+ for a decently itemized lowbie Blue shoulder or ring/ammy. Trust me, nothing is useless.


guess you haven't seen those streamers playing the beta huh? blue and rares become useless as you approach end game just like d3 vanilla. All their end games gears are legendary. No one bothers to even to look at blues and rares.

It's exactly like the current gearing situation that d3 vanilla has.
If blizzard wants to limit trading to rares and magic items then they need to find a way to make them more desirable. I have a few ideas on how to do this:

For rares the mystic could be able to de enchant an item and keep a property of you're choice to use on another item. Example: you have a non crit helm and you want it to have crit. Luckily you found an item with 6 crit and you de enchant it and then enchant the 6 crit in the place of one of the properties on the item in question. The property would have to normally roll on the item type to be able to add it. (ie: can't add atk speed to a chest or pants)

Magic items could roll with less properties than rares and legendaries but they could be able to get higher max rolls on the properties they do have. ( We already have this with weapons. Weapons can roll up to 20 atk speed while rares can't). Those magic items actually have value because they have a few limited applications. I think d2 also did this but i don't remember to what extent. I know the highest mf possible on a ring was 40% and it was only possible to go over 30% on magic items
12/04/2013 08:17 PMPosted by Starbird
A lot of us (me included) are asking for this to be Clanwide.


Horrible idea. Shouldn't essentially force people into clans in order to be able to trade somewhat efficiently. Also, depending on the size of these...people could just form "trade clans" where it's not about being a team...it's about gaining an advantage/doing what 3rd party sites do now. I can just picture D2jsp starting up several "clans" for this purpose and laughing at all you fools.

12/04/2013 08:13 PMPosted by Starbird
- Do you consider paying real money for gear acceptable?
- Do you consider scamming acceptable?


As for buying gear...I could care less to be honest. People were able to buy them in D2 and it didn't ruin my experience in the least.

As for scamming...I don't condone it but I also don't condone restricting freedom to protect fools from themselves. Before you go there...this isn't *real life* where you have to have more laws in place to control the retards of our society. Some idiot losing his item because he didn't take the time to look at what the other guy put in the window doesn't compare to someone burning the building down or something equally asinine.
I still think BoE is the only reasonable compromise. At least then players have a choice in the matter. Use it, give it to a friend, or try and trade/sell it for something else.
12/04/2013 08:52 PMPosted by Utukka
As for scamming...I don't condone it but I also don't condone restricting freedom to protect fools from themselves. Before you go there...this isn't *real life* where you have to have more laws in place to control the retards of our society. Some idiot losing his item because he didn't take the time to look at what the other guy put in the window doesn't compare to someone burning the building down or something equally asinine.


In real life if my friend borrows my car and decides not to give it back I have...oh, a slew of options to retrieve it, legal and otherwise.

You also don't get tradehacks and swapscripts IRL.

Let's do ourselves a favour and not compare D3 to real life.

12/04/2013 08:52 PMPosted by Utukka
Horrible idea. Shouldn't essentially force people into clans in order to be able to trade somewhat efficiently. Also, depending on the size of these...people could just form "trade clans" where it's not about being a team...it's about gaining an advantage/doing what 3rd party sites do now. I can just picture D2jsp starting up several "clans" for this purpose and laughing at all you fools.


D2jsp starts clans. D2jsp clans become widely known. Blizzard investigates these clans. Blizzard issues sweeping account bans to these clans.

Us fools have a good laugh at their expense.

Also - are you for or against BOA. I'm actually not sure *what* you are arguing for.
11/16/2013 08:33 AMPosted by Starbird
EDIT: Apologies for the minor necro, but I see a lot of people once again losing sight of these 5 things and I'd rather not remake the thread.

Firstly, a disclaimer. I am pro-BoA, but not 100%. I wouldn't mind seeing BoE or BoT or some other sort of hybrid approach introduced.

That said, there are 5 common misconceptions and oversights I see from the people protesting about it on the forums making.

I'm going to leave discussions over how BoA will kill Blackmarket sites alone for now, since this has been covered ad-nauseum before.

So...

1) Not everything will be BoA.

Unmodified rares and the like will still be freely trade-able from what we know.

2) Rares will still be good.

While legendaries and sets will generally be better, from what we've seen from datamining there will likely be some awesome rares too, and more than likely a near perfect rare could end up being near BiS. Again, we know nothing for sure yet, but this seems to be a reasonable assumption at this point.

Especially post droprate nerf in the Beta, you are probably going to be quite happy to get an awesome rare.

3) You can still trade with your friends in the same game.

If an item drops in a game with a friend, you can trade it and help them out if they need it. Many of us are suggesting something similar being done with clans.

4) Account selling and botting won't become *that* widely spread.

At least nowhere near the extent that item selling is now. Sure, you will always have an extreme minority who will spend ages bypassing the system to do this, but there are a *lot* of safeguards to prevent account trading, and doing it runs a massive risk of getting ripped off.

Botting is another issue entirely. But one of the major reasons that botters are so common is due to how easy it is to sell gold and gear. If that stuff was all BoA, not only would there be less incentive to do it, there would also be a *lot* more risk.

5) Trading does affect others.

Far too many people seem to think that if unrestricted trading is allowed with loot drops balanced around self found, that people can just choose to opt out of it.

Thing is, as I've said in another thread...probably the most common 'goal' in D3 is to have a Powerful Character. And in games like this, power is relative. Trading will give a massive advantage, and thus for anyone wanting to play the game 'right'...there would be a serious incentive to trade.

And that's without PvP. Once PvP enters the arena (hah) then an entirely new can of worms is opened.

So yeah...I'm fine with BoA. I'm also fine with BoE or BoT. But overall I do feel that the quasi-BoA we seem to be getting now is going to be best for the game.


1&2:With the major focus of RoS being Build changing legendary items, I'm having a hard time believing rares will be used in the end game. I think rares will be good up til torment 3 but past that it will be all legs.

3: Trading in the same party is not a good compromise. With Crafting mats and Gold being BoA too, the only way trade will take place is if they both find something in the same game that other person is interested in. I find this highly unlikely to happen often. Although between close friends you can do an IOU, groups of friends aren't always on at the same time.

4: As far as account selling goes there'll never be enough proof for either side to use this as an argument. We can all assume it happens, but how often is another question entirely.

5: Multiple RPGs have been successful w/o BoA. "Power is relative" what will happen when people who play 10 hours a week look at gear of people who play 60? Either way people need to accept that there are always people with better gear. the "Right way to get gear" is based on the opinion of the player and should never be stated as fact.

Edit: Made it easier to read.
12/04/2013 11:33 PMPosted by Soul
1&2:With the major focus of RoS being Build changing legendary items, I'm having a hard time believing rares will be used in the end game. I think rares will be good up til torment 3 but past that it will be all legs.


I am actually mostly okay with this. Getting to this level, if the beta post CB removal and droprate changes are anything to go by, is going to be quite a journey on it's own.

12/04/2013 11:33 PMPosted by Soul
3: Trading in the same party is not a good compromise. With Crafting mats and Gold being BoA too, the only way trade will take place is if they both find something in the same game that other person is interested in. I find this highly unlikely to happen often. Although between close friends you can do an IOU, groups of friends aren't always on at the same time.


True, which is why I'm currently pushing the idea of ClanTrade, whereby anyone in your clan at the time of drop is eligible for the item. There are some issues with this, but I think they can be resolved.

12/04/2013 11:33 PMPosted by Soul
4: As far as account selling goes there'll never be enough proof for either side to use this as an argument. We can all assume it happens, but how often is another question entirely.


Agreed. I can only use my own common sense in this regard. I think it's common sense that simply due to the issues and massive risk (both to buyer and seller) involved it will never come close to the current Black Market.

12/04/2013 11:33 PMPosted by Soul
5: Multiple RPGs have been successful w/o BoA. "Power is relative" what will happen when people who play 10 hours a week look at gear of people who play 60? Either way people need to accept that there are always people with better gear. the "Right way to get gear" is based on the opinion of the player and should never be stated as fact


Granted. It's not a good reason on it's own. It's more about the overall legitimacy of the game and being able to have a powerful character without ten people chiming in with 'oh, well shopped'.
So I think BoA is a terrible idea, but I loved the person to person trading and named games of D2. D1 had p2p trading too but it was a walk across the map thing lol

I think the reason alot of people are jumping on this BoA bandwagon is that rotten taste left in your mouths from the GAH. I think P2P trading enhances the game, we communicate, barter, encourage commence and show our LEET GEARZ to flex our EPEENS at the same time. Yes, its sad, but bragging is a huge part of what gives us pleasure in online gaming. These social aspects and competitions of gear encourage continued gameplay and longevity. What do I care if i can do MP10 or w/e (I quit playing before they released that) if I cant show others I can.


*I think the RMAH would have been fine with a min bid/buyout of $5, some are always willing to dump excessive money into a game in one way or another. This way people wouldn't have to turn to 3rd party sites and still forced P2P trading in game to all but the extreme elitists.
12/05/2013 01:27 AMPosted by Starbird
1&2:With the major focus of RoS being Build changing legendary items, I'm having a hard time believing rares will be used in the end game. I think rares will be good up til torment 3 but past that it will be all legs.


I am actually mostly okay with this. Getting to this level, if the beta post CB removal and droprate changes are anything to go by, is going to be quite a journey on it's own.

3: Trading in the same party is not a good compromise. With Crafting mats and Gold being BoA too, the only way trade will take place is if they both find something in the same game that other person is interested in. I find this highly unlikely to happen often. Although between close friends you can do an IOU, groups of friends aren't always on at the same time.


True, which is why I'm currently pushing the idea of ClanTrade, whereby anyone in your clan at the time of drop is eligible for the item. There are some issues with this, but I think they can be resolved.

4: As far as account selling goes there'll never be enough proof for either side to use this as an argument. We can all assume it happens, but how often is another question entirely.


Agreed. I can only use my own common sense in this regard. I think it's common sense that simply due to the issues and massive risk (both to buyer and seller) involved it will never come close to the current Black Market.

5: Multiple RPGs have been successful w/o BoA. "Power is relative" what will happen when people who play 10 hours a week look at gear of people who play 60? Either way people need to accept that there are always people with better gear. the "Right way to get gear" is based on the opinion of the player and should never be stated as fact


Granted. It's not a good reason on it's own. It's more about the overall legitimacy of the game and being able to have a powerful character without ten people chiming in with 'oh, well shopped'.


Yes gearing up for torment 6 will be a blast but endgame is where trading begins. That's when you start to look for perfectly rolled gear and those pieces are so rare that you most likely wont find them on your own, although you can find perfectly rolled pieces of gear they may not be the one youre looking for. Which is why no one fretrades lower tier items

I wouldn't mind the 2 hour window as much if it didn't apply to people only in your game. I think a 12 hour limit and trade-able to anyone would be fair due to how trading high end gear works.

Idk maybe your gaming group is different but regardless if one of the people I game with finds or buys an item, if its a nice item, we all still think its a nice item. Granted this AH version of the game does not feel legit in terms of loot hunting, even if RoS, with better itemization and no AH, didn't have BoA it still would be enough for people to feel legit. The problem imho is so many people feel jaded towards trading because of the AH.
12/04/2013 10:25 PMPosted by Starbird
You also don't get tradehacks and swapscripts IRL.


I'm 100% fine with Blizzard going after these people. I still don't see it as a reason to disable trading. If you're scared of losing your item to unscrupulous people, you can just not participate. Obviously, drops would still have to be tuned towards a self found experience.

Again, D2 is a great example of a game with open trading that still has a rewarding single player experience.

12/04/2013 10:25 PMPosted by Starbird
D2jsp starts clans. D2jsp clans become widely known. Blizzard investigates these clans. Blizzard issues sweeping account bans to these clans.

Us fools have a good laugh at their expense.


What they gonna do? Infiltrate them and try to sell items amongst each other? Busting out Blizzard Stings like the FBI searching for crack heads.... Highly unlikely to happen. You also can't just ban upon "reputation". If you could, there would be a lot more players already banned. There's also several things they could do as well that would help keep out such "under covers"..such as...you actually have to provide information about yourself and much more. You're just forcing them to become more organized which they surely will do. The only ones that *might* shut down are shady ones but even then I doubt it.

12/04/2013 10:25 PMPosted by Starbird
Also - are you for or against BOA. I'm actually not sure *what* you are arguing for.


I'm against BOA. Mostly just trying to provide feedback on why I don't agree/expose potential problems with peoples posts. As for me, I believe the problem to be in the game itself, not the ability to trade. For example, I think the items themselves are boring, lacking end game, pathetic PvP, and more.

Again, D2 and many other games are proof that you can have open trade and still have a entertaining self found + game in general. D3 only hates trade because the game itself is so lacking.
12/05/2013 01:41 PMPosted by Utukka
I'm 100% fine with Blizzard going after these people. I still don't see it as a reason to disable trading. If you're scared of losing your item to unscrupulous people, you can just not participate. Obviously, drops would still have to be tuned towards a self found experience.Again, D2 is a great example of a game with open trading that still has a rewarding single player experience.


If you can get Blizzard to change their 'we don't intervene in scamming situations under any circumstances' policy, then I'd probably start leaning more towards trade.

But first get them to change that policy.

12/05/2013 01:41 PMPosted by Utukka
What they gonna do? Infiltrate them and try to sell items amongst each other? Busting out Blizzard Stings like the FBI searching for crack heads.... Highly unlikely to happen. You also can't just ban upon "reputation". If you could, there would be a lot more players already banned. There's also several things they could do as well that would help keep out such "under covers"..such as...you actually have to provide information about yourself and much more. You're just forcing them to become more organized which they surely will do. The only ones that *might* shut down are shady ones but even then I doubt it


I'm saying that it will be very easy to know who the D2jsp guilds are unless they keep it incredibly small. You wouldn't need stings or anything like that. Their reputation alone would make posting from that clan enough to be booed and flamed out of any thread. It would be in the communities interest to treat anyone in the D2JSP clans like pariahs.

12/05/2013 01:41 PMPosted by Utukka
I'm against BOA. Mostly just trying to provide feedback on why I don't agree/expose potential problems with peoples posts. As for me, I believe the problem to be in the game itself, not the ability to trade. For example, I think the items themselves are boring, lacking end game, pathetic PvP, and more.Again, D2 and many other games are proof that you can have open trade and still have a entertaining self found + game in general. D3 only hates trade because the game itself is so lacking.


And this is where we hit the opinion wall. You think that freetrade is worth the risk. I think BoA is worth the price. The answer probably lies somewhere between - and that is up to Blizzard to work out.
If you can get Blizzard to change their 'we don't intervene in scamming situations under any circumstances' policy, then I'd probably start leaning more towards trade.

But first get them to change that policy.


Sadly, that will never happen. There's too much grey area and he said/she said. Combine that with the fact players can have the same account name/character name and things get even worse. Granted the # on account is different but I guarantee that there would be major problems arising from this.

12/05/2013 05:04 PMPosted by Starbird
I'm saying that it will be very easy to know who the D2jsp guilds are unless they keep it incredibly small. You wouldn't need stings or anything like that. Their reputation alone would make posting from that clan enough to be booed and flamed out of any thread. It would be in the communities interest to treat anyone in the D2JSP clans like pariahs.


Possibly true but players could just leave the clan once satisfied with what they have and who knows how far in depth they would go to cover up the clans themselves. $ has a way of making things happen. Also, this is something that Blizzard wants to avoid big time. They could easily have put a RMAH tag on people but they specifically avoided this due to the obvious ramifications that would come from this. Supporting or not supporting RMAH doesn't change the fact that Blizzard wants nothing to do with the vitriol that would come from easily identifying "pay to win" players.

12/05/2013 05:04 PMPosted by Starbird
And this is where we hit the opinion wall. You think that freetrade is worth the risk. I think BoA is worth the price. The answer probably lies somewhere between - and that is up to Blizzard to work out.


I guess so! I suppose my main hope was to get people to think beyond "Trade Bad" or "Trade Good" and focus more on the issues that I *think* are far more detrimental to the gaming experience that we are currently in. IE, poor itemization, laughable PvP, almost 0 reason to reroll characters, and lacking social features. Again, I believe if you fix these elements...the "problem" resolves itself.
12/05/2013 05:31 PMPosted by Utukka
Sadly, that will never happen. There's too much grey area and he said/she said. Combine that with the fact players can have the same account name/character name and things get even worse. Granted the # on account is different but I guarantee that there would be major problems arising from this.


Exactly :). Which is why I support BoA. FreeTrade creates a very unpleasant and predatory trading community where scamming isn't just the norm, it's often encouraged and with the abundance of tradehacks and swapscripts, the only way to 100% avoid getting scammed was not to trade.

12/05/2013 05:31 PMPosted by Utukka
Possibly true but players could just leave the clan once satisfied with what they have and who knows how far in depth they would go to cover up the clans themselves. $ has a way of making things happen. Also, this is something that Blizzard wants to avoid big time. They could easily have put a RMAH tag on people but they specifically avoided this due to the obvious ramifications that would come from this. Supporting or not supporting RMAH doesn't change the fact that Blizzard wants nothing to do with the vitriol that would come from easily identifying "pay to win" players.


Sure. I'm not saying it would eliminate the Black Market completely. But it would offer a significant disincentive.

People are ingenious and you are always going to get the few who find ways to exploit and go around the system.

12/05/2013 05:31 PMPosted by Utukka
I guess so! I suppose my main hope was to get people to think beyond "Trade Bad" or "Trade Good" and focus more on the issues that I *think* are far more detrimental to the gaming experience that we are currently in. IE, poor itemization, laughable PvP, almost 0 reason to reroll characters, and lacking social features. Again, I believe if you fix these elements...the "problem" resolves itself.


Itemization is being fixed in RoS. PvP...well, hopefully is coming eventually. Rerolling characters - yup, no disagreement there.
12/05/2013 05:49 PMPosted by Starbird
Itemization is being fixed in RoS.


Or so we hope. The 7+ years to release initial itemization, the underwhelming 1.08 legendary patch, continued focus on main stat, and further inflated #'s leave me skeptical. I will admit, some of the legendary items actually do look good. I can even tolerate how gimmicky many of them appear to be.

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