0 Dog a Dying Breed in RoS

Witch Doctor
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12/11/2013 12:42 PMPosted by silverfire
I usually don't venture outside of the class forums because generally the experts are here and the clueless are there. Consequently I didn't really look at that thread, but its unsurprising to me that it'd get uneducated feedback.


No no none of that. It was completely on point and accurate information.

O.o

I know, I know lowest form of wit is sarcasm, is it?
I'm very surprised by how many Trolls we have been getting in this thread. I would think more players would be in support of keeping the build since it benefits group play so much but all I see is hate. The only thing I can think of as far as where the hate is coming from is from players who have out dated pc's and they hate that the 0 Dog build laggs them out.
12/11/2013 12:52 PMPosted by heyguyslol
The only thing I can think of as far as where the hate is coming from is from players who have out dated pc's and they hate that the 0 Dog build laggs them out.


I think honestly it's two things.

Casuals who do not understand the game see it from the outside and think it's a broken exploit we are desperate clinging to.

Experts from other classes are losing a lot of their loved builds, so it's a case of "if I gotta lose mine, you should lose yours too."

I was sort of (futilely) hoping to educate the former, but I don't think you can debate the latter.
I made a thread about the physics engine in the mac support forum, showing how the dogs' body parts cripple the FPS. (And breakable objects)

The response I got from another forum member was that everything is single threaded and so the physics engine starts stealing all of the CPU time.

If they make it multi-threaded, it will significantly reduce the lag for the other processes so FPS reduction should be much lower.

I don't have an out-dated computer, they used out-dated software design.
12/11/2013 12:59 PMPosted by MCP
I made a thread about the physics engine in the mac support forum, showing how the dogs' body parts cripple the FPS. (And breakable objects)

The response I got from another forum member was that everything is single threaded and so the physics engine starts stealing all of the CPU time.

If they make it multi-threaded, it will significantly reduce the lag for the other processes so FPS reduction should be much lower.

I don't have an out-dated computer, they used out-dated software design.


I dunno what it causes. Some people complain about NETWORK lag, some people complain about VIDEO CARD lag (I wish folks wouldn't use a network term to refer to their video card bogging down, but it is what it is.)

I personally have never had a problem with my machine bogging down from 0Dog or had network lag from it. I have seen player created network lag, of course - you see it almost every time when doing a crypt run in FoM when there are 200 monsters all balled up.

I HAVE been able to cause network lag with a super high speed SNS wizard (3.5 break point) AND/OR using Nirvana on a monk and spamming cyclone strike (again with 3 APS) with huge mobs around.

That and the most notorious lag causer in the game - Pestilence. Casting that in a prepped DC or FOM can spell the death of pretty much everyone in your party.
12/11/2013 12:52 PMPosted by heyguyslol
I'm very surprised by how many Trolls we have been getting in this thread. I would think more players would be in support of keeping the build since it benefits group play so much but all I see is hate. The only thing I can think of as far as where the hate is coming from is from players who have out dated pc's and they hate that the 0 Dog build laggs them out.


ive gone over there and made a few posts, and from what i have seen it looks to me like the people trolling or saying the 0dog shouldnt be viable is the folks that played barb and wiz. everytime u see an argument about the 0dog cooldown the bring up how cm wiz and ww/hota barb is getting nerfed so 0 dog should as well.

im not saying i agree that cm and ww should be nerfed to the ground i have alot of friends that play them classes but it seems like some of those folks are taking the if i cant have mine then u shouldnt have yours approach.
12/11/2013 12:59 PMPosted by MCP
I made a thread about the physics engine in the mac support forum, showing how the dogs' body parts cripple the FPS. (And breakable objects)

The response I got from another forum member was that everything is single threaded and so the physics engine starts stealing all of the CPU time.

If they make it multi-threaded, it will significantly reduce the lag for the other processes so FPS reduction should be much lower.

I don't have an out-dated computer, they used out-dated software design.


Thanks for the education and sorry for the out dated pc response. I got that from my own personal experience because I have several pc's. One of my pc's is rather old an i7 920 and when I play 0 Dog on it, it laggs but when I play on my i7 3820 I get no lagg and I can play with multiple 0 Dog players. I didn't know or understand about the multi-threading issue but I can see how Blizzard would be using outdated software design considering that it takes them years just to come to a decision on such a simple problem.
I was mashing my face into my keyboard trying to read the other thread. I couldn't believe some of the responses.

There is just one simple thing they don't seem to get. Why would the devs make 5 slots have 0 dog cooldown coupled with the synergies from passives if they did not want you to use it? Derp derp
at this point im fearing that thread is doing more harm then good :(
My God there are so many idiots posting in the thread its unbelievable. None of them understand 0 Dog or the mechanics, they also don't understand the cool down reduction stat, they talk as if they themselves are the developers. I'm so annoyed I want to punch ppl.
12/11/2013 03:38 PMPosted by baggins
at this point im fearing that thread is doing more harm then good :(


You may be right but as I already said what else can we do to *TRY* to get blizzards attention to address these issues? I'm extremely frustrated with Blizzard and all the idiotic posters. If you have a better idea on how to get this problem solved, I'm all ears.
sadly thats the only thing we can do I am also getting tired and frustrated with the dumb posters

well at the end off the day its there loss as we can still run the build they cant

im really taken back by all the hate tbh
12/11/2013 04:06 PMPosted by baggins
sadly thats the only thing we can do I am also getting tired and frustrated with the dumb posters

well at the end off the day its there loss as we can still run the build they cant

im really taken back by all the hate tbh


Someone said that they believe that all this hate for the 0 Dog build is coming from other players who played WW-Barb and CM-Wiz. Apparently their frame of mind is, if they can't have their build then we should not either, so they are hating on 0 Dog in hopes that the build dies like their build did. As immature as this sounds it makes the most sense. I dunno what it is about Blizzard games but it seems to draw a lot of immature and selfish people. This is one of the main reasons but not only, why I quit playing WoW some time ago. I will never buy another Blizzard game again, I hate the company, the developers, and the majority of the player base.

Tbh I think skywalkerfx had the right idea.
yup greed/jelly/stupid

edit i wasnt meaning you :)
after reading through this I find the op some what miss leading. No matter what 0 dogs will not be removed. in its current state in vanila it is required to use a gimped mojo to run it which keeps it ballanced. in ros you get the new op mojo but will need to use your vanila dogs reduction gear on the jewllery slots .

0dogs is not and will never be ballanced without using gimped gear.
12/12/2013 11:26 AMPosted by ChuckNorris
after reading through this I find the op some what miss leading. No matter what 0 dogs will not be removed. in its current state in vanila it is required to use a gimped mojo to run it which keeps it ballanced. in ros you get the new op mojo but will need to use your vanila dogs reduction gear on the jewllery slots .

0dogs is not and will never be ballanced without using gimped gear.


Your absolutely right, I have no idea what I'm talking about and I'm only doing this to get attention to feel better about myself. Thank you for pointing out your vast knowledge about this topic you really seem to have all the facts in order.
12/11/2013 12:52 PMPosted by heyguyslol
The only thing I can think of as far as where the hate is coming from is from players who have out dated pc's and they hate that the 0 Dog build laggs them out.


Some outdated PC's for sure (laptops I hear from the most). Biggest issue is the Diablo engine runs on a single CPU core and player experience seems to get better when they are running a faster core speed. Most players I talk to running almost no issues (so they say) are on Intel i7. I have my fair share of lag from lots going on the screen but I'm also running eyefinity 3 screen on an AMD 6 core and ATI 7950. I dropped sound quality down to from 128 to 32 and helped quite a bit (gained 40 FPS). I get some graphics lag at time when there are monsters pouring from all screens and lots going on. My 1 CPU core is running pretty high by that point. Blizz needs to offload some processing to other cores IMO. It would help at lot with these builds people complain about.
@heyguylol: I was looking over that short video and notes in your other thread. That's a bummer for what they have so far.

As it now it's a bit of a flawed build with the sheet DPS. Having low sheet numbers and ripping higher damage that is. Bring item levels up to 70 with everything else to show players thier damage. Nerf the sacrifice damage so that there is comparable damage to other WD builds. I watch player use sacrifice to regain life and mana mostly when not using it in a 0 dog setup. Casting ever so often IMO is a small dent for damage compared to continuous attacks. It seems to me like he better fit for adjusting since it's not changing a lot. For all I know RoS increased monster life would make no difference.. Just a thought.

Seems to me the build will be more challenging anyway with globes dropping at a greater distance. Running a PtV build with LS gone is a nerf in itself.

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