Frenzy IAS/Damage Analysis and Suggestion

General Discussion
I recently switched to Frenzy after acquiring BK set and was interested in determining my damage since my friend Matt and his Wizzy are going higher and higher on the damage meter. So I took my Barb who has the dual wielding BK Set and started looking at what I would do. First, my BK swords do the following damage: Solemn Vow does 1056.1 damage per second, Warrior Blood does 855.1 damage per second. Both have a base attack per second of 1.30 but Solemn Vow has a 10% IAS mod on it increasing its APS to 1.43. Now my skill Frenzy increases the attack speed by 15% for each stack(with 5 stacks its +75%). Meaning at max Frenzy my APS on my first sword should be 1.43 x 1.75 = 2.5025 APS and my second would be 1.30 x 1.75 = 2.275 APS. Note that I do NOT have any IAS mods on any of my armor and I'm excluding Enchantress IAS buff.

The problem is my APS is no where NEAR that. Out of curiosity I decided to get into a small and safe skirmish with the details tab open looking at my APS and for my first/main sword its 1.68 while my secondary is 1.53. So I got to thinking... how the **** do they get 1.68?! I was talking to my friend Matt about it and he mentioned to try doing 1 stack of Frenzy. So I did and by taking 1 stack of Frenzy plus Enchantress 3% buff on my first sword(1.18 x 1.43), the result comes to the 1.68 APS listed(same deal for the other sword or 1.53). Without the Enchantress my APS is 1.64(rounded down) and 1.50(rounded up).

However, the APS in the details page doesn't CHANGE as I add stacks(I took a screenshot: Is this deliberately done? If so, it has to be reverted back because the whole point of choosing Frenzy is for that IAS boost. Nerfing the IAS not only drastically affects the damage I and other Barbarians can do but also affects our tanking ability(Life on Hit more than anything).

Damage Analysis

Now if it was done the way it should be, at MAX Frenzy(w/ Maniac rune) I should be doing the following(note I'm excluding critical hit and Enchantress IAS buff):

Ideal Frenzy:

Solemn Vow: 1056.1 x 2.5025 x 27.59(Strength) x 1.3(Frenzy mod) = 94792.
Warrior's Blood: 855.1 x 2.275 x 27.59 x 1.3 = 69773.
Average of the two would be 164562 / 2 = 82282.5

Now if I take the APS shown ingame(aka IAS nerf):

Solemn Vow: 1056.1 x 1.64 x 27.59 x 1.30 = 62121
Warrior's Blood: 855.1 x 1.50 x 27.59 x 1.3 = 46004
Averaged together: 108125 / 2 = 54062
Difference between the two is 28k(a considerable amount).

As a comparison, here is what I would do with Bash.

Solemn Vow: 1056.1 x 1.43 x 27.59 x 1.65(Bash mod) = 68750
Warrior's Blood: 855.1 x 1.30 x 27.59 x 1.65 = 51832
Averaged together: 120582 / 2 = 60291

Now with Cleave(which can hit more than 1 opponent)

Solemn Vow: 1056.1 x 1.43 x 27.59 x 1.40(Cleave mod) = 58333
Warrior's Blood: 855.1 x 1.30 x 27.59 x 1.40 = 42937
Averaged together: 101270 / 2 = 50635

When you compare the 3 skills as they stand now, Bash does the most damage(as it should) and comes with a stun mod thanks to clobber rune. Frenzy comes in 2nd but only because of Maniac rune. If you had some other rune effect(like Smite so your comparing apples to apples in terms of stunning an opponent(which Bash does better)), Frenzy damage would be following:


Solemn Vow: 1056.1 x 1.64 x 27.59 x 1.1 = 52564
Warrior's Blood: 855.1 x 1.50 x 27.59 x 1.1 = 38927
Averaged together: 91491 / 2 = 45745

Meaning with Frenzy, as it is now(w/ IAS nerf), under that setup when compared to Bash, I would gain .20 attacks per second while doing, on average, 15k less damage. Now when comparing to Cleave, if I go with Frenzy(Maniac), I gain .20 APS and 4k damage as opposed to having the ability to hit multiple foes at once(which means lots of life on hit on a crowded battlefield). Without the maniac rune, I gain .20 APS for 5k less damage. Anyone care to tell me where the advantage in Frenzy is because I don't see it.

My Suggestion
If you nerf the skill damage of Frenzy instead(say 80% of weapon damage), at max Frenzy with Maniac rune I would do:

Solemn Vow: 1056.1 x 2.5025 x 27.59 = 72917
Warrior's Blood: 855.1 x 2.275 x 27.59 = 53672
Averaged together its 126589 / 2 = 63294.
Difference between ideal and this being roughly 19k(Not quite as much as the IAS nerf but still considerable).

If this change was implemented, Barbs using Frenzy would gain a significant boost to their tanking ability and actually do more damage than Bash or Cleave do to a single target. To compensate for this, Bash should be buffed to 200% while Cleave buffed to 150%.

Bash at 200%

Solemn Vow: 1056.1 x 1.43 x 27.59 x 2 = 83334
Warrior's Blood: 855.1 x 1.30 x 27.59 x 2 = 61339
Averaged together: 144673 / 2 = 72336

Cleave at 150%

Solemn Vow: 1056.1 x 1.43 x 27.59 x 1.5 = 62500
Warrior's Blood: 855.1 x 1.30 x 27.59 x 1.5 =46004
Averaged together: 108504 / 2 = 54252

Meaning Bash will do 9k more damage, on average, than Frenzy(w/ Maniac) and Cleave will do 9k less damage, on average, than Frenzy. Anyone else feel this is how it should be? Feel free to C&C and one more comment from me. Although I mentioned this elsewhere, the real thing that broke this game wasn't Frenzy's IAS but Critical damage. Cap it at 100% and everything from Monster HP to other game balancing issues will fall nicely into place over time.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum