Barbarian game mechanics info (2.0.6)

Barbarian
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I tested out the disparity in leaping ability between male and female barbs today.

Female Barb
Frame 1 - press leap
Frame 8 - start of leap animation (squat position)
Frame 44 - landing (call of arreat and earthquakes appear)
Frame 59 - start of 2nd leap
Frame 91 - landing
Frame 110 - start of 3rd leap, leap cooldown begins
Frame 146 - landing

The leap animation was typically 36 frames, occasionally it would be a few frames shorter but this didn't seem to impact the overall rhythm of the jumps. Between leaps was a refractory period of 15 frames. Leap goes on cooldown at the start of the 3rd jump, so a full cycle would be 600*CDR+110 frames.

Male Barb
Frame 1 - press leap
Frame 8 - start of leap animation
Frame 44 - landing
Frame 73 - start of 2nd leap
Frame 109 - landing
Frame 138 - start of 3rd leap, leap cooldown begins
Frame 174 - landing

We see here that the leap animation time is the same, but the refractory period is longer by 14 frames each time, leading to an overall difference of 28 frames per triple leap cycle. This is nearly a half second longer.
Hey zylog, thanks for looking into the exact frame differences, I really appreciate your input. I do not own Air Nubtros so I can´t test triple Leap, basically none of the full set bonuses.

Here is some data from my recent "stat weight" research. Crafting is too costly so this is based on gambling. 1-4 primary rolls were possible.

Gloves
181/300 primary attribute
177/300 vitality
52/300 all resistance
52/300 attack speed
50/300 armor
59/300 crit damage
68/300 life regen
48/300 crit chance
53/300 area damage
62/300 life per hit
60/300 cooldown reduction
49/300 cost reduction
total primary rolls: 913 (roughly 3 on average)

4/300 legendary
276/300 rare
20/300 magic
One thing bother me about WW mechanics: the hits per seconds treesholds frenquency choice.
The damage is calculated using each weapon alternatively, it doesn't matter much which hits first. Easy mechanics.
The frequency for the WW is the one of the weapon you are about to swing, meaning if your last hit was done from your main hand it will be your offhand's frequency. The common agreement is to put your slow weapon in right hand (fit with skills that use your main hand to do damages as it has the most base damage of the two weapon) and the fast in left hand. Which bring me some questions:
1/ When you arrive in a game which hand will be used first? I d guess the right one as it sounds logical and I think that's what I saw in game.
2/ Does the "which hand is next" flag reset after some time without using attacks that alternate the hands?
3/ How a WW is taken into account for the "which hand is next"? I mean you finish your WW (you won't know which hand finished) and then start another one, will it be decided by your previous WW, meaning it's totally unpredictacle and each time you got one chance out of two to have the 'bad' frequency.
4/ If the right hand is the 'default' "which hand is next" why do we put the fast weapon on the left hand? As most of the time we will be under the 'bad' frequency.
5/ When we use a 'always right hand' skill (i.e Rend, Overpower) does it counts as using your right hand and thus your next WW will be using your offhand frequency or is it neutral?

For someone who don't use skills that alternate hands like me (except for WW of course) those questions sound essentials. For the moment I just WW and ... happens what happens. I got WW and Overpower as damage dealing skills and in a sense Sprint run like the Wind too.
And those tests are kinda difficults as I can't make the difference between 4.5 and 6 attacks per seconds with my bare eyes.
04/16/2014 07:48 AMPosted by Migosha
One thing bother me about WW mechanics: the hits per seconds treesholds frenquency choice.
The damage is calculated using each weapon alternatively, it doesn't matter much which hits first. Easy mechanics.
The frequency for the WW is the one of the weapon you are about to swing, meaning if your last hit was done from your main hand it will be your offhand's frequency. The common agreement is to put your slow weapon in right hand (fit with skills that use your main hand to do damages as it has the most base damage of the two weapon) and the fast in left hand. Which bring me some questions:
1/ When you arrive in a game which hand will be used first? I d guess the right one as it sounds logical and I think that's what I saw in game.
2/ Does the "which hand is next" flag reset after some time without using attacks that alternate the hands?
3/ How a WW is taken into account for the "which hand is next"? I mean you finish your WW (you won't know which hand finished) and then start another one, will it be decided by your previous WW, meaning it's totally unpredictacle and each time you got one chance out of two to have the 'bad' frequency.
4/ If the right hand is the 'default' "which hand is next" why do we put the fast weapon on the left hand? As most of the time we will be under the 'bad' frequency.
5/ When we use a 'always right hand' skill (i.e Rend, Overpower) does it counts as using your right hand and thus your next WW will be using your offhand frequency or is it neutral?

For someone who don't use skills that alternate hands like me (except for WW of course) those questions sound essentials. For the moment I just WW and ... happens what happens. I got WW and Overpower as damage dealing skills and in a sense Sprint run like the Wind too.
And those tests are kinda difficults as I can't make the difference between 4.5 and 6 attacks per seconds with my bare eyes.

The main reason why the game uses just one frequency is because WW snapshots various values including most damage bonuses and keeps them for as long as you channel the skill. It´s much easier to handle such a fast hitting skill like that for the game that way - it doesn´t have to perform as many calcs/actions as it would have otherwise.

As for your questions, which are all very good, my most recent tests suggest that main hand only skills don´t affect WW frequency (which one was swung), only alternating skills do. No more resetting to MH via Rend or Stomp. Considering this, I came to the conclusion that any attempts to purposely go for a specific hand frequency is not advisable in actual gameplay.

This is reflected in a portion of my most recent update in the WW & Sprint RLTW mechanics thread
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037344497
Whirlwind messes up the weapon swung determination so I advice against attempting to purposely choose the tornado frequency in the heat of a battle. One, you will fail unless you are a robot, two, you will get tired very soon. Additionally, pure main hand skills like Rend no longer seem to reset the frequency to main hand in RoS. Achieving a specific breakpoint should be the main goal of gear breakpoint optimization, if you choose to go down that road at all.

Now that I think about it, the only way it would make sense to attempt going for faster tick frequency is if you didn´t intend to stop channeling - if you can pull of a single WW in each area you clear. But for that you need an alternating hands skill that is not WW. Any crowd control will mess you up though.

So it´s as you mentioned, what happens happens when you WW :)
I measured leap's maximum distance as 50 yards, as it happens to be exactly the same max distance as dashing strike, which has a stated max distance of 50. If you go to the Act 5 town, there are some tiles on the ground in town NE of the waypoint, and 50 yards is equivalent to 8 tiles.

I took some measurements of normal movespeed along these tiles and got a result of 22.4 yards/second for +0% MS. These numbers aren't super precise but it's a general reference point.

If we take a look at a the max leap distance for a triple jump, the equivalent speed would be 55.9 yards/s or +150% MS on the female and 47.6 yards/s or +113% MS on the male barb.
I don't know if it has been answered but, does Earthquake stack if you cast multiple EQ on top of each other?
Yes, the earthquakes stack.
Ty, zylog. :D
Thanks for the answers ;)

So in RoS or we use a skill that alternate hands before starting each WW (which would be incredibly boring, tiring and unfun and in the end counterproductive) or .. we let Lady Luck have it her way. Lady Luck doesn't like me but I'll still choose her.

The easy way to deal with that would be to have the same kind of weapon in each hand so we don't have to care about which hand will go next as they are the same. In term of "End Game" equipment it's possible with a SoH/TF combo (even nerfed I'd guess SoH is still the best weapon in game for a WW barb right?) but usually we want to go with SoH/OdynSon combo as OdynSon tends to outperform TF thanks to the elemental bonuses being applyed to it.

I'll hope Blizzard will find a way to give us a lil control over the skill later on, making the 'non-hand-typed' skills (Rend, Avalanche, Overpower,...) use the right hand by force would be perfect.

Edit: The WW does snapshot some things, but not all. It's kinda what it wants.
- It snapshot which weapon frequency it will use for the duration of the skill. Which is much easier to handle for the coding and ingame effect. Would be nice if it was a fixed hand, would be even easier for them and for us.
- It doesn't snapshot Berserk's effect for what i could test. When you Berserk during the canalisation it will apply its effect, and will stop when Berserk ends.
- It doesn't snapshot your movment speed. If you use any acceleration (Sprint, War Cry with the right belt, etc.) during your canalisation, your speed will increase and the increase will cease as soon as the buff goes away.
- It doesn't snapshot buffs from Shrines. It will apply them as long as you have the buff and remove it as soon as the buff goes away.
04/16/2014 12:46 PMPosted by zylog
I measured leap's maximum distance as 50 yards, as it happens to be exactly the same max distance as dashing strike, which has a stated max distance of 50. If you go to the Act 5 town, there are some tiles on the ground in town NE of the waypoint, and 50 yards is equivalent to 8 tiles.

I took some measurements of normal movespeed along these tiles and got a result of 22.4 yards/second for +0% MS. These numbers aren't super precise but it's a general reference point.

If we take a look at a the max leap distance for a triple jump, the equivalent speed would be 55.9 yards/s or +150% MS on the female and 47.6 yards/s or +113% MS on the male barb.

Cool, I always like to learn something new and not many people focused on measurments and movement speed research in the past. I know you did mobility research in vanilla and it´s great to see you continue in RoS.

Also congrats on your LeapQuake guide making main page on diablofans and thanks for mentioning my spreadsheet in it.

I haven´t looked much into the other classes yet (only a few DH skills) so I´m not up to date, but if Dashing Strike is 50 yards for each of the 3 charges (Quicksilver) and Leap is 50 yards for each of the jumps, then it makes sense that Teleport was changed to 50 yards with 3 ports as well recently, so these mobility/utility skills are comparable.
WRT Area Damage:

On the spreadsheet, you say that since 2.04 it no longer takes ele/elite etc. damage boosts into account.

I was under the impression that area damage did a fixed % of the proccing hit. So If I do 1000 damage and AD procs (with 100% AD stat), 1000 damage is dealt to all enemies within the area.

So my question is - pre-2.04, was it a) further multiplying the area damage stat by ele/elite/etc damage boosts (so in effect it was double rolling it), hence the fix? Or rather b) does the AD proc cancel out the already-factored-in elite/ele/etc boosts?

So which of these is now the case?
Assuming 100%AD, guaranteed proc, 100% boost from ele/elite/etc, 1000 base damage:
i) A 2000 hit on single monster, proccing AD for 2000 damage on enemies nearby (where pre-2.04 it was 4000 on enemies nearby).
ii) A 2000 hit on single monster, proccing AD for 1000 damage on enemies nearby.

Many thanks. Amazing spreadsheet.
04/17/2014 06:47 AMPosted by Spankalot
WRT Area Damage:

On the spreadsheet, you say that since 2.04 it no longer takes ele/elite etc. damage boosts into account.

I was under the impression that area damage did a fixed % of the proccing hit. So If I do 1000 damage and AD procs (with 100% AD stat), 1000 damage is dealt to all enemies within the area.

So my question is - pre-2.04, was it a) further multiplying the area damage stat by ele/elite/etc damage boosts (so in effect it was double rolling it), hence the fix? Or rather b) does the AD proc cancel out the already-factored-in elite/ele/etc boosts?

So which of these is now the case?
Assuming 100%AD, guaranteed proc, 100% boost from ele/elite/etc, 1000 base damage:
i) A 2000 hit on single monster, proccing AD for 2000 damage on enemies nearby (where pre-2.04 it was 4000 on enemies nearby).
ii) A 2000 hit on single monster, proccing AD for 1000 damage on enemies nearby.

Many thanks. Amazing spreadsheet.

You´re welcome.

It was a) before. Say you used HotA Smash (fire) and had 50% area damage and a 50% fire skill damage bonus. You dealt 10,000 damage with Smash (already includes fire skill bonus) and area damage procced. Before 2.0.4 the 5000 area damage was further boosted by the corresponding fire skill damage bonus, so you´d do 7500 (0.5 * 1.5) area damage.

So originally area damage acted as a separate skill and it would adjust its element based on the main skill that was used, very weird behavior. Obviously this wasn´t intended and so they fixed it.

Today it´s fairly straightforward, there are no further boosts to area damage itself. It deals the correct % value of the main hit that procced it. 50% area damage deals 50% of the main hit and that´s it.

Oh yeah, the stat can go over 100% and actually deal over 100% of main hit damage. I´ve tested it a few days ago. Pretty amazing stuff with boulder toss, for example. It´s still kind of an underrated stat, but I understand that it has to compete with many attractive dps and utility stats on the slots it rolls on. At least we can gain 50% from paragon stats, I always max it out.
So i got this ring a few days back:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/kredes-flame

"Taking Fire damage restores your primary resource" So fire chains, molten, mortar etc etc supposed to fill up my fury globe? Kind of seeing varied results so thought i'd ask the experts in here :)

Dont want to spend too much rerolling vit for cd on something which might not be all that good.
04/19/2014 05:06 AMPosted by demonknight
So i got this ring a few days back:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/kredes-flame

"Taking Fire damage restores your primary resource" So fire chains, molten, mortar etc etc supposed to fill up my fury globe? Kind of seeing varied results so thought i'd ask the experts in here :)

Dont want to spend too much rerolling vit for cd on something which might not be all that good.

If you have a pal who could help you out for a minute or two, go brawl and let him use a fire skill against you.

Leave your mouse cursor over the fury globe to see the values, start at 0 fury, don´t use Animosity or Unforgiving or IK set bonus. Oh and obviously no Superstition (my guess is it actually works similar to this passive just limited to fire damage). Check how much fury you gain and substract from it how much you gained from taking damage.

Taking Damage Fury Gain = 50 * damage taken / max HP

I think I have the ring somewhere, on my WD, I´ll see what I can do but I have no friends online to test mechanics with at the moment.

EDIT: some preliminary tests
shock pulse fire bolts vs my barb
81,914 dmg / 417,774 max life = 29 fury generated - 9.8 from taking damage = 19.2 krede
91,037 / 417,774 = 33 - 10.9 = 22.1 krede
20,392 / 417,774 = 7 - 2.44 = 4.56 krede
19,281 / 417,774 = 7 - 2.31 = 4.69 krede
83,501 / 417,774 = 30 - 9.99 = 20.01 krede
23,011 / 417,774 = 9 - 2.75 = 6.25 krede

It seemed to work but I don´t understand the exact mechanics yet.
Thanks for testing it out Nubtro :)

I shall test it out like you said with a friend as well. But in game i seem to get mixed results.

Fire chain
Molten
Desecrater
Mortar

All these would be fire yes? Sadly butcher's furnace does not seem to work all that much.

Oh and would be there a cooldown or a limit with how much fury you could actually gain? Such simple wordings it has yet so complicated :)

Just saving up a lot to reroll Vit into CD in that one.

Thanks again kind sir :)
Not sure about Desecrator being fire. I believe I rode something said by Nubtro about Desecrator being changed to physical in RoS like it was supposed to be. Or was it the opposite?

For people using Strongarms Bracers and not having a spare TF/Odynson for their merc, you can use the Genzaniku. The Fallen it spawn has a 50-75% uptime and will use a move that bump enemies into the air that should trigger the Strongarms' effect (untested).

Kadala finally gifted me with a pair of Iceclimbers after so many pages of boots. Nubtro already knows as he's the lucky owner of thoses, but the effect is even stronger than we could think. They bring you immunity to the following:
- Freeze from elites and the freeze doors in Pandemonium.
- Jail from elites.
- Slow down effect you get after getting knocked back by elites.
- Slow down from from Ice Orb from elites.
- Slow down effect from those pesky spiders, the big fat act5 monsters with their ice on the ground and every monster skill that should slow you down.
The only thing that will still make you loose control/mobility of your barb is Fear and probably stun (I couldn't test it yet).
@Migosha: Now you have just gone and made me want IC more :D
Ok nvm. Forgot to equip the good boots hehe.
@nubtro,

Do you know how much damage the speacial skills of CoTA do? Primary is 180%, Rise of the ancients is 360% but has no speacial attacks
04/22/2014 03:44 AMPosted by demonknight
@Migosha: Now you have just gone and made me want IC more :D


Ahah. You can, you can. I tested for Vortex and you're attracted to the elite, no surprise. Which isn't a problem if you're WW build as it's its job to break the vortex's effect.
Of course it doesn't work on Wormhole either, you'll be teleported to the other Wormhole. That's not really a big problem as Wormhole isn't the affix you care about.
For any non-EQ build Iceclimbers are definitly the item to get.

I still couldn't test for stuns, but I believe you'll be stunned.

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