Are mantras really that good?

Monk
Mantras are very good. And only get better with the more people you are supporting.

And mantras CAN stack with the same Mantra, they just can't have the same rune.

Monk (A) uses MoC-Reclamation
Monk (B) uses MoC-Overawe

All mobs effected by Overawe will take more damage while all Allies who beat on these mobs will also receive a chance to regain life. The runes stack not the damage. It takes the stronger over the 2 effects and that is what applies. But the runes don't cancel each other out unless they are the same rune effect.

Now if there is a blue that states otherwise, this should be how it is.
04/15/2012 07:46 PMPosted by D3BETA
Snc, while you provide excellent math for the benefit of the mantras.. You just ruined it with that idiotic last statement of yours to think Monks can't solo efficiently.


I know monks can solo efficiently. Maybe you should hire an English tutor to teach you some reading comprehension.

For efficiency sake a monk should be a team player. They can solo fine, no problem, but if you want to play straight DPS you can play a barb and have someone else play the monk and do even more dmg. Simple math for you... my simple friend!
04/16/2012 05:15 PMPosted by AscendedOne
I'm going to be the devil's advokate here and say that a Monk does 50% of the DPS of any other class.


I would not under any condition assume that. Every class in diablo is DPS, not tanks, healers or support. Anything that fulfills one of those roles in the classes is just a bonus on top of their role as damage. I'd say melee classes in general have things that make up for their short range, such as the 30% extra damage reduction. You may even assume that monks and barbs deal more damage then the 3 ranged clases.


....Hey, when I said I was going to be Devil's Advokate I meant it. I'm aware that monks will be good... hence the whole me being Devil's Advokate thing. What's wrong with you people? Did you just learn to read?
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Mantra of Conviction|Submission synergy with Resolve. Passive 25% damage reduction to everything in a 20 yard range forever**? Yes please.

(** - I am assuming, of course, that keeping up a 3 minute mantra is trivial.)


Crippling wave with concussion + resolve is -45% damage and while you do need to swing, the arc is relatively large. That and you're then also freed up to use mantra of evasion should you choose to go the protector route.
Mantras are very good. And only get better with the more people you are supporting.

And mantras CAN stack with the same Mantra, they just can't have the same rune.

Monk (A) uses MoC-Reclamation
Monk (B) uses MoC-Overawe

All mobs effected by Overawe will take more damage while all Allies who beat on these mobs will also receive a chance to regain life. The runes stack not the damage. It takes the stronger over the 2 effects and that is what applies. But the runes don't cancel each other out unless they are the same rune effect.

Now if there is a blue that states otherwise, this should be how it is.


If mantras stack in the manner you described then 100% dodge is obtainable and the best group is 4x monks. There's no way they will stack and if for some reason they do early on it will be patched.
04/17/2012 09:09 PMPosted by snc
Snc, while you provide excellent math for the benefit of the mantras.. You just ruined it with that idiotic last statement of yours to think Monks can't solo efficiently.


I know monks can solo efficiently. Maybe you should hire an English tutor to teach you some reading comprehension.

For efficiency sake a monk should be a team player. They can solo fine, no problem, but if you want to play straight DPS you can play a barb and have someone else play the monk and do even more dmg. Simple math for you... my simple friend!


What you have done is spread the misinformation and encourage the other Monks to reroll to Barbs. Every time you post in the Monk's section you clearly have an hidden agenda. Don't need an English teacher to hire to see that. Just go back to Barbs forum and leave the Monk forums to us.
04/17/2012 09:15 PMPosted by snc
Crippling wave with concussion + resolve is -45% damage and while you do need to swing, the arc is relatively large. That and you're then also freed up to use mantra of evasion should you choose to go the protector route.


Its multiplicative not additive.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Mantra of Conviction|Submission synergy with Resolve. Passive 25% damage reduction to everything in a 20 yard range forever**? Yes please.

(** - I am assuming, of course, that keeping up a 3 minute mantra is trivial.)


Crippling wave with concussion + resolve is -45% damage and while you do need to swing, the arc is relatively large. That and you're then also freed up to use mantra of evasion should you choose to go the protector route.


I was going to go with all three on my build: Mantra of Conviction|Submission > Resolve > Crippling wave|Concussion. Ideally, anything within melee range will have it's damage reduced to roughly less than half (20% attack speed slow, 20% damage reduction, and another 25% damage reduction - 0.8 * 0.8 * 0.75 = 48%) That said, it's always been a hard decision between Mantra of Conviction|Submission/Intimidation, Mantra of Evasion|Hard Target and Mantra of Healing|Time of Need. I've been playing around with builds for each.

Speaking of which, does anyone know if Mantra of Healing|Time of Need is a 20% damage reduction across the board, or is it a 20% resistance to all magical damage types (the wording has me wondering).
04/18/2012 10:49 AMPosted by D3BETA
Speaking of which, does anyone know if Mantra of Healing|Time of Need is a 20% damage reduction across the board, or is it a 20% resistance to all magical damage types (the wording has me wondering).


Luke, the way I read that tooltip is that it is across the board-- including both physical (ranged & melee) and all magic damage. I think their tooltips leave a little to be desired in understanding their true meaning & effect in game.

/tibs out

edit: wth is with quoting? sometimes comes up with person's avatar name & linked, sometimes d3beta & sometimes no name. grrr
Mantras are very good. And only get better with the more people you are supporting.

And mantras CAN stack with the same Mantra, they just can't have the same rune.

Monk (A) uses MoC-Reclamation
Monk (B) uses MoC-Overawe

All mobs effected by Overawe will take more damage while all Allies who beat on these mobs will also receive a chance to regain life. The runes stack not the damage. It takes the stronger over the 2 effects and that is what applies. But the runes don't cancel each other out unless they are the same rune effect.

Now if there is a blue that states otherwise, this should be how it is.


If mantras stack in the manner you described then 100% dodge is obtainable and the best group is 4x monks. There's no way they will stack and if for some reason they do early on it will be patched.


He just said that the extra effects would both be applied, not that two applications of the damage increase would be applied. We don't yet know for sure if this is how it will work, but it seems a reasonable assumption.

I assume you're talking about Mantra of Evasion when you mention 100% dodge? First of all, nobody has implied that 4 monks running mantra of evasion would all get 4x15% dodge, just that they might be able to benefit from multiple, different rune effects. It's likely that there wouldn't be any conflict between one monk running Hard Target and another running Backlash. They'd still only get 15% dodge, but they'd both get 20% armor and some explosions.

Secondly, that's not how dodge stacking works. It's impossible to get 100% dodge unless you have all 100% dodge coming from a single source. I'm not aware of anything in the game that gives a bonus that high.

Also, in reference to your "Reading Comprehension" posts, I'm sure you can have a discussion without being insulting. It would be appreciated.
Also, I'm sure you can have a discussion without being insulting. It would be appreciated.


Yeah, this. General discussion forums are for the insulting, trolling & flaming. Monks are all brothers/ sisters, imo, and we should discuss in that manner, i.e., emotionless.

/tibs out
Mantras are very good. And only get better with the more people you are supporting.

And mantras CAN stack with the same Mantra, they just can't have the same rune.

Monk (A) uses MoC-Reclamation
Monk (B) uses MoC-Overawe

All mobs effected by Overawe will take more damage while all Allies who beat on these mobs will also receive a chance to regain life. The runes stack not the damage. It takes the stronger over the 2 effects and that is what applies. But the runes don't cancel each other out unless they are the same rune effect.

Now if there is a blue that states otherwise, this should be how it is.


If mantras stack in the manner you described then 100% dodge is obtainable and the best group is 4x monks. There's no way they will stack and if for some reason they do early on it will be patched.


You misread what i said. I put it in bold in the quote.The core bonus of the mantras dont stack. The Rune effects stack.

Also dodge is multiplicative. So 100% is impossible.
Ah G3pwood you clarified my point before i could. lol

I am glad you understood it very well to be able to explain it better than I.
04/18/2012 11:23 AMPosted by Tibster
Speaking of which, does anyone know if Mantra of Healing|Time of Need is a 20% damage reduction across the board, or is it a 20% resistance to all magical damage types (the wording has me wondering).


Luke, the way I read that tooltip is that it is across the board-- including both physical (ranged & melee) and all magic damage. I think their tooltips leave a little to be desired in understanding their true meaning & effect in game.

/tibs out

edit: wth is with quoting? sometimes comes up with person's avatar name & linked, sometimes d3beta & sometimes no name. grrr


Yeah, now that I think about it, I can't see it being anything other than 20% mitigation across the board. The more I learn about the mantras, the more I begin to like the idea of an all Monk group. Thanks for the reply Tibs =)

So just thinking out loud here... In a four Monk group:

Monk1: Mantra of Conviction|Submission > Resolve
Monk2: Mantra of Conviction|Intimidation
Monk3: Mantra of Healing|Time of Need
Monk4: Mantra of Evasion|Hard Target

All Monks equipped with Crippling Wave|Concussion and The Guardian's Path

In theory that would be...(assuming dual wielding)

Dodge Chance: (0.85 * 0.85)
Passive Mitigation: (0.75 * 0.9 * 0.8)
Combat Mitigation (Crippling Wave|Concussion): (0.8 * 0.8)

All together that would be..

(0.7225) * (0.54) * (0.64) = 0.25

27.75% dodge, 20% attack slow and 57% damage mitigation (!) for an overall total mitigation of 75%.... through passives and one active ability

That's not even taking the regen and armor into account. That's... pretty good.
04/27/2012 07:25 PMPosted by LuckNotSkill
Is there any confirmation somewhere that differently runed mantras will stack their secondary effects?


No but thier's not source saying they don't and thier different effects, and in essence different abilities
04/12/2012 02:16 PMPosted by AscendedOne
He can heal the group once every 15 seconds for a substanial ammount.


He can heal those within a VERY short range.

He can give the whole group invulnerability for 2 seconds out of 20.


Complete waste of a slot if you're using it for that purpose. 3s abilies are far too short as it is, and Blizzard expects us to get any mileage out of a 2s ability? Okay....

Whether or not you "spam" the conviction aura until oom, it's still one of the best group enhancing abilities in the game just having it active. You're literally adding the damage of a fifth group member. I also highly doubt different runed versions of the same mantra will stack their seperate rune effects. Who knows though. It might end up working and then they will end up patching it away.

For solo play, I doubt I would bother with a mantra, and would most likely replace MoC with SW.
I'll probably never be allowed in anyone's monk group, because I intend to run with MoR/Retaliation. 60% all the time & reflects ranged too. Granted that's sixty percent of damage _sustained_, but we're gonna be taking damage, lots of it in Inferno. So why not utilize that manta w/ three other Monks?
I'll probably never be allowed in anyone's monk group, because I intend to run with MoR/Retaliation. 60% all the time & reflects ranged too. Granted that's sixty percent of damage _sustained_, but we're gonna be taking damage, lots of it in Inferno. So why not utilize that manta w/ three other Monks?


Might be "okay" in an all Monk group, but otherwise it just sounds counter-productive, especially as your dodge increases. The effect is also probably going to be done after damage mitigation, not before. You might be taking damage in Inferno, but an aura like that actually promotes you taking damage, and you're going to want to be avoiding it.

I honestly don't know why you would pick that rune over Collateral Damage though.
04/28/2012 04:20 PMPosted by Void
I honestly don't know why you would pick that rune over Collateral Damage though.


For the ranged reflection and increase from 40 to 60. And honestly, Collateral is one of three that I could easily see myself using.

And I agree with everything else you wrote, Void, but I gotta try out something different from everyone else. I don't see Blizz giving us a worthless mantra, so it has to be effective in some form. I just have to figure out what it is. And if not, then yea I'll definitely be running a different one.

edit: Transgression for 8% IAS for everyone, that's the other rune I'd be interested in.

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