Realistic Math Surviving Infrno After EA Nerf

Wizard
Ok. I can't find a effing bestiary, so I'm going to use the Brady games one as a guide.

Armadon monster - in Inferno, he hits for 170k min (1 person game)
In a four person game, he hits for 246.5k (170 * 1.45)

Let's say you have 50% armor reduction, 50% physical resist, and motion blur rune @ 20%

Damage Received before Energy armor (BEA)

Solo - 170*.5*.5*.8 = 34k damage hit
4 Man - 246.5*.5*.5*.8 = 49.3k damage hit (ouch!)

Now EA comes in to play

Using this formula
Surviving the "hit" AKA real damage taken = (BEA) - HP pool + (HP pool *.35)

Using 25k hp pool -

Solo
34 - 25 + (25*.35) = 17.75 k hit. YOU will survive. Your hp will be reduced by 35% to 16.25k. Using formula 25 - (25*.35))

4 man
49.3 - 25 + (25*.35) = 33.05 k hit. You WILL DIE!
HOWEVER if you up your HP to 30k....
49.3 - 30 + (30*.35) = 29.8k hit. YOU will survive. Your hp will be reduced by 35% to 19.5k Using formula 30-(30*0.35)

So in theory, if you can get 50% armor, 50% resists, and use the motion blur rune, you could be ok in 4 man inferno with about 30-35k hps (21-25k hps solo).

Of course, not everything is physical or melee damage either, so resists and or motion blur rune might not work as well.

Few more key points. Scanning the Brady game guide, the hardest hitting monster in inferno is a skeleton skull cleaver (act 3/4) -- 284k min hit solo, which is 411.8 inferno.

-with 60% armor and 60% resist its a 65.88 damage hit
-with 60 armor 60 resist and motion blur, its a 52.7 k hit, meaning you'd need 32k hps in inferno 4 man with those resists + passive
-Without the passive, you'd need 40k hps using those resists

Really, its not too bad still.

**Another note - I'm using a 165% formula to calculate. Since we don't have the "official" formula, im just erroring on the side of caution. Some people seem to think you can survive a 199% hit in order to make EA work.

So in the above example, to survive the 65.88 hit, you would need only 33k ish hps using 60% armor, 60% resists -- without the rune. With the rune, you'd need ~26.5k ***

Overall its still a !@#$ nerf, but it's kind of still doable if you balance out your gear.
Thanks for this
Very welcome. It should help get people a target to shoot for.
What is the formula for 50% on a level 63 monster since armor and resists works on a level basis.
Something wrong here.
Nerf says:
Amount of damage absorbed from a single attack will now cap at 100% of a player’s maximum Life

That mean if you will dynamicaly increase damage, it will not be absorbed till it reaches 35% of your maximum life, then it will be absorbed till it reaches 135% of your maximum life - 35% passed and 100% absorbed, and then rest of it will not be absorbed till infinity.

So if you have 30k health and 49k dmg incoming after all reductions, you will recieve 49-30=19k damage. Your hp will be reduced by 63% and not 35%.
Again:
Amount of damage absorbed from a single attack will now cap at 100% of a player’s maximum Life

So if incoming damage is more than 135% of your maximum life, you will recieve DMG - MaxHp amount of it.
05/23/2012 01:03 PMPosted by Kallell
Surviving the "hit" AKA real damage taken = (BEA) - HP pool + (HP pool *.35)


That formulae is wrong.
Real one is:
BEA-min(HP,max(0,BEA-HP*0.35))

So the result are:

Solo
34 - min(25, max(0, 34-25*0.35)) = 9k hit. You will survive, even if you soak 250 less damage than before the nerf. Your hp as be reduced by slightly more than 35%

4 man
49.3 - min(25, max(0, 49.3-25*0.35)) = 24,3 k hit. Unless you were full life, you WILL DIE!
Your hp as been reduced by 99% instead of 35% before the nerf to to the absorbtion cap
HOWEVER if you up your HP to 30k....
49.3 - min(30, max(0, 49.3-30*0.35) = 19.3k hit. Not only you had 5k more hp at start, but you reduce the damage by 5k more because you raised the absorption cap by this amount.

As a thumb rule: you automatically die if you take a hit that's twice your maximum hp.
So what you are saying is we can potentially survive a single hit from a white monster. Well, that is encouraging.
The formula is similar to the one used by Wow for determining armor's contribution to your damage reduction.

DR = Armor / (Armor + C)

Having C armor will guarantee 50%. Initial observations suggest that C is equal to 50x attacker's level. Your character's paperdoll stats assume an equal level attacker for tooltip purposes.
05/23/2012 03:23 PMPosted by Mockingbird
So what you are saying is we can potentially survive a single hit from a white monster. Well, that is encouraging.


no you are completely missing the point.

If you meet the threshold, you will only take 35% damage. If you have some good regen, you will be able to take 3 hits or so without potting/using diamond skin.
05/23/2012 03:21 PMPosted by Moonheart
Surviving the "hit" AKA real damage taken = (BEA) - HP pool + (HP pool *.35)


That formulae is wrong.
Real one is:
BEA-min(HP,max(0,BEA-HP*0.35))

So the result are:

Solo
34 - min(25, max(0, 34-25*0.35)) = 9k hit. You will survive, even if you soak 250 less damage than before the nerf. Your hp as be reduced by slightly more than 35%

4 man
49.3 - min(25, max(0, 49.3-25*0.35)) = 24,3 k hit. Unless you were full life, you WILL DIE!
Your hp as been reduced by 99% instead of 35% before the nerf to to the absorbtion cap
HOWEVER if you up your HP to 30k....
49.3 - min(30, max(0, 49.3-30*0.35) = 19.3k hit. Not only you had 5k more hp at start, but you reduce the damage by 5k more because you raised the absorption cap by this amount.

As a thumb rule: you automatically die if you take a hit that's twice your maximum hp.


That's some of the debate that's floating around still, since !@#$ing blizzard won't give us an actual formula. I'm sticking with the 165% though, since 200% seems like something they'd never do (still optimistic about the 200% though).
Something wrong here.
Nerf says:
Amount of damage absorbed from a single attack will now cap at 100% of a player’s maximum Life

That mean if you will dynamicaly increase damage, it will not be absorbed till it reaches 35% of your maximum life, then it will be absorbed till it reaches 135% of your maximum life - 35% passed and 100% absorbed, and then rest of it will not be absorbed till infinity.

So if you have 30k health and 49k dmg incoming after all reductions, you will recieve 49-30=19k damage. Your hp will be reduced by 63% and not 35%.
Again:
Amount of damage absorbed from a single attack will now cap at 100% of a player’s maximum Life

So if incoming damage is more than 135% of your maximum life, you will recieve DMG - MaxHp amount of it.


I still dont think that's how it works. I still think its a flat 35% as long as you can survive the hit. I'm testing it right now.

Edit, i just tested it. It's correct.

i have 20576 hps, and got act 1 monsters to attack me. THE MOST i got hit for was 7202.

Therefore, it is 35%. I dont know where people are getting this 65% !@#$ from.
its 235% , it isnt an on/off switch wheter it will absorb the hit. Been doing butcher runs, thats when i noticed that sometimes from he's hits it'd drop to aprox 50% (wich if the force armor turns off at >100% hp shoulda have killed me outright). So the retarded thing is blizzard have missed the point entirely, all we need is exact numbers on mob damage and we can still go with a minimum vita aproach since im guesing the amount of surv stats you need to stack to surv 4 hits is borderline retarded while still keeping our (crap) dps up.

Personaly ive taken a break and leveling another char thill !@#$ gets stable.
235 % is a bit high.

I was testing last night using my formulas and was able to tank act 3 mobs no problem.
I posted in other thread, but copy/paste here as well:

I'm not sure your math there is entirely correct, or at least that's not how I understood it. Namely, your formula was:

real damage taken = (BEA) - HP pool + (HP pool *.35)

And if RDT= 'real damage taken' , and HPP= 'HP pool' , I think formulas would be:

- BEA< 35%* HPP: RDT= BEA
- BEA< 135%*HPP: RDT= 35%*HPP
- BEA> 135%*HPP: RDT= BEA-HPP

In your example with 25k pool and 34k BEA, I expect hit to be just 9k, NOT your 18k ... or I didnt understand nerf description.

In that example, how I understand was that absorption will be capped at your max HP, or 25k, so if BEA was 34k, Energy Armor will absorb 25k (ie capped at your max HP), and you will get hit by only 9k. (That assume new 'absorption' effect come AFTER all other damage reductions)

In your 4man example with BEA=49k, you would get hit by 24k (49k-25k), and would BARELY survive one hit.

Basically, you get insta (oneshot) killed whenever BEA>2*HPP, or in your case when BEA>50k on 25k max HP wiz, or BEA>60k on 30k max HP wiz.
I posted in other thread, but copy/paste here as well:

I'm not sure your math there is entirely correct, or at least that's not how I understood it. Namely, your formula was:

real damage taken = (BEA) - HP pool + (HP pool *.35)

And if RDT= 'real damage taken' , and HPP= 'HP pool' , I think formulas would be:

- BEA< 35%* HPP: RDT= BEA
- BEA< 135%*HPP: RDT= 35%*HPP
- BEA> 135%*HPP: RDT= BEA-HPP

In your example with 25k pool and 34k BEA, I expect hit to be just 9k, NOT your 18k ... or I didnt understand nerf description.

In that example, how I understand was that absorption will be capped at your max HP, or 25k, so if BEA was 34k, Energy Armor will absorb 25k (ie capped at your max HP), and you will get hit by only 9k. (That assume new 'absorption' effect come AFTER all other damage reductions)

In your 4man example with BEA=49k, you would get hit by 24k (49k-25k), and would BARELY survive one hit.

Basically, you get insta (oneshot) killed whenever BEA>2*HPP, or in your case when BEA>50k on 25k max HP wiz, or BEA>60k on 30k max HP wiz.


This is where the debate comes in, either its 200 (well 199%) or 135% damage hit. There is no blue post on the exact formula, so i was erroring on the side of caution on this one. I would hope your right though.

I could test this...IF i knew where a beastiary was with monster damage scaling.
Made a spreadsheet to determine if you will live or not depending on damage you received :

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5_PiafxdhvSVHV6TndBbHZhaGs/edit

Please comment.
Its very nice, you might want to work in maybe some sort of hit formula too (make it dynamic) for damage taken after armor and resists and skills.

Otherwise, 1 question. The orange indication -- as long as you survive, you should never take more than 35% of your health in one blow. So using 35k as a guideline on your graph, it would indicate that you took a 25k hit, leaving you with 10k hps? If so, that isn't correct -- you would still be down 12.5k (or 22.75k life remaining).
monsters dont do more damage with more players in game, they only get more life
In my graph, If you have 35k hp and take a 25k hit, you are in the yellow zone and not taking more than 35% hp, leaving you at 22750hp.

Perhaps you are reading the document the wrong way : HPs are on the left (blue), Damages at the top (grey)

Numbers in the orange zone are the additional damage you take for taking a hit over the cap of 100% of your hp, and could not be absorbed

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