Jailer,Vortex and even Wall are bad mechanics

General Discussion
Wall to an extent (When it completely surrounds you).

I have no problem with movement impairing effects but these are ridiculous. Frozen is a good mechanic because there's an arm time/tell on the frost orbs. I can make a plan to dodge them.

Jailer and Vortex stop you in your tracks with no warning. Jailer should act like Diablo's jail attack, where there is a tell on the ground and you can dodge it if you're paying attention.

Vortex on blues means they're using it faster than I can use my panic button and there's nothing I can do about it at all. I don't know what to suggest for this bad mechanic aside from just out right removing it.

Wall is all right when it's not the 3 walled enclosure that almost guarantees you're probably going to die if your panic button up or they're a slow mob. My suggestion for wall is that instead of being instant, it kind of crawls along the ground so you have a chance to escape before it closes off.
How are they bad mechanics? Does everything have to be avoidable?
Waller/Desecrator are usually a bad combo.

The "3 walls" component comes from elites (yellows), the single walls come from the champions (blues).

Sometimes the walls work for you, and sometimes they !@#$ you over faster then you can say "oh my g-" *dead*.
Vortex is there so ranged can't go full glass cannon with no worries. It exists specifically for that reason, and if you add a tell, then ranged CAN go full glass cannon with no recourse.

When melee pretty much have no choice but to gear with a significant amount of defense, there needs to be something that keeps ranged from being 100% offense. Vortex and jailor / desecrator or jailor / mortar are those things.
Yeah I agree, enemies should all throw flowers and candy at you.

Anyway, I ran into a shielding vampiric pack last night I couldn't even make a dent in. Had to reset.
06/08/2012 01:52 PMPosted by UltimateJim
Frozen jailer vortex? gg.

I love those on my barb. Ranged tears nom nom nom.
I love frozen. After yo uget frozen the buddies all drop a bomb right next to you that goes off before you thaw.
06/08/2012 01:52 PMPosted by Dogmeat
How are they bad mechanics? Does everything have to be avoidable?

They're often death sentences you can do nothing about.
Im guessing you play a monk or barb. Id glady take those at once over horde, mortar, reflect and something else. Mortar wouldnt be so bad if it was more consistent. Being mortared when you are 10 yards away is total BS. Its also BS when sometimes, they shoot where your are standing, and other times shoot to where you are going and by the time you can tell, its too late.
Stupid walls...can't hit them!!!
The biggest problem with Jailer is its presence alone forces every class into carrying a skill (usually the skill) that breaks jailing. I agree that it needs a warning graphic. It seems to punish ranged more than melee, but there are times its even just too much for melee.

The biggest problem with Vortex is that it creates random 'there was nothing you could do' moments where you die, which is antithetical to Diablo's tradition as a 'Hardcore' game. If you get Vortexed back just as molten bomb is going off, or into a freezing explosion, or into the beam of arcane laser, that's just 'gg' because you'll be dead before you can do anything. There needs to be limitations on range (maybe only beyond a certain range) or on how far it can pull you, or on when it can be used (only if the monster is not in an existing phase).
I have to agree for the most part, Jailer is terrible for any class other then DH in my experiences, and wall is potentially avoidable assuming you don't get totally gimped, and there is literally no hole you can slip through, but 90% of the time you are going to be running through the monster, or something on the ground to get out.

Vortex is totally a pain. Doesn't matter how good you are at avoiding if the mob can pull you back. Only time I've managed to "break" vortex is running behind a wall or something on the ground that the enemy can't pull you over. And this has happened so randomly I have found no surefire way to cause it to happen other then general line of sighting.

As you said though, I like your suggestions personally. I don't think anything should be totally instant and we 'should' be able to avoid everything at all costs in this type of game. I have even come to terms with things like mortar that I found totally ridiculous at first, but it is avoidable, even for ranged, just takes practice in positioning.
Reflect damage.... Woot, not only can they kill me in 2 seconds, now /I/ can kill me too!
IF they were not spammed by the mobs then it would be fine...

but when you walled (for example) by a mob, and then before it wears off you're walled again, and again.. meanwhile you're getting beat on repeatedly.. it's overkill..

or mortars.. fine when its NOT SPAMMED..

vortex.. same.. if i run away then BAM im sucked back in.. fine.. but when i run away to get some distance and then sucked back in.. only to run about 5 yards away to get sucked back in again.. and again.. its almost like rubber banding (lag)..

i think if they could stop the mobs from spamming them over and over.. or maybe even provide some sort of diminishing returns after you been hit once with a spell, these 'annoying' affixes might just even themselves out in play.
I'm an Inferno Monk and Jailer and Vortex don't bother me in the slightest. Waller can be a !@#$% when when paired with something like Arcane Enchanted or Molten. I'd take any of them any day over Shielded or Invul Minions.

Yeah I agree, enemies should all throw flowers and candy at you.

Anyway, I ran into a shielding vampiric pack last night I couldn't even make a dent in. Had to reset.

That should be a thing for Whimsyshire, only it's purely graphical. Motor lobs thousand damage chocolate bars at you; Plagued spawns lethal fields of daisies.
I have no issue with things like Mortar. You can often tell where they're going. I don't even mind wall, except for 3-wall yellow mob version. All you can do is either run towards the mob and risk dying or stand at the back and risk dying and since CC does little to nothing to blues and yellows (Another bad mechanic, imo) there's not much else you can do.
I'm growing to like waller, but there are some cases where you're just screwed.
Vortex is just plain stupid, IMO, but these would all be reasonable if there were a formula that prevent more than one type of cheap spammed movement prevention in place where you run into those impossible cases.

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