End game solutions?

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I wish they did make this game pay per month so they would upgrade it as much as they do WoW. I would be totally be alright with that!
07/03/2012 12:58 PMPosted by Mensalidin
Then why did you release the game?
Because players DEMANDED an earlier release date. I can recall several forum posts saying people would pay $100 for a closed-beta account just to play.

Now players are UPSET at an earlier release date.

Honestly, forum posters have no idea what they want.
"I want easier to find items!"
<item value relative to gold and $ drops>
"Items are too easy to find and are worthless!"

"I want Inferno easier!"
<Inferno gets nerfed>
"Inferno is too easy! Everyone can do it and get top-end items!"

....the cycle continues.
Finally from a blue so all you people can just take what they said. This is not WoW and should not be treated as such. All you end game needs improvment people need to take a step back and realize this is not an MMO where there is endless play for one character. Diablo has always had an end in sight, now you can play one the ladder in D2 and so on, but the game did have an ending! I know they want to make money off of people continueing to paly and having fun with the game but that is what the expansions and patches are for, if you are looking for "end game" content with massive raids and massive detail on bosses, go back to WoW.
07/03/2012 03:52 PMPosted by Kuehljosh
I wish they did make this game pay per month so they would upgrade it as much as they do WoW. I would be totally be alright with that!

This is Diablo. Not WoW. Please go away.
wtb a deathmatch style public pvp game aside from just arenas, just everyone runs around killing eachother!
07/03/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Bashiok
We recognize that the item hunt is just not enough for a long-term sustainable end-game.

This wasn't the case in D2. Most people who played that game spent years item hunting. Main difference? Having an AH in D3 coupled with the extreme lack of awesome legendary and set items. Why should I spend my time hunting for better gear when I can just purchase it off an AH with either gold or money? Why should I spend my time hunting for legendary items when they are vastly inferior to yellows?
Dear people complaining there is no end game guess what D2 had no end game D1 had no end game there is no end game content in the diablo series the end game is the item hunt or the change over to hardcore and try your luck there. Yes am endless dungeon would be awesome, but currently blizz has other things to develop before they can even consider adding new content. Be patient and wait D2 wasnt the amazing game it became at realese it took time and many patches to become the game it is. Allow the devs and employees at blizzard the time to make this a great game.
07/03/2012 03:55 PMPosted by Marlaine

This is Diablo. Not WoW. Please go away.

I'd pay too.

You probably already have at the RMAH.
I have a few facts from my point of view, why D3 is not D2 in terms of long term player motivation:

1) Max lvl
It is absolutely correct that D1/D2 was all about farming items, but you had a much longer way to max lvl, especially in hardcore mode and playing ladder <- THIS was what I would call kind of end game content. So even if you farm x hours per day, you do kind of progress.

D3 needs some kind of long term progression feature to keep players playing it. If it is another level system or what not. I would suggest kind of hero level where you can level and spent points into a SKILL TREE!!!1 regardless of your Char Level. Maybe it is shared across all chars. Skills could be something not game play critical, maybe a minor passive buff, a skill where you can push your magic find (in 10 steps, each skill point gives you 5%... so you have to put 10 skill points into it to get an extra 50% MF...)
And to level up you get EP only by killing elite packs in Inferno, 1 XP for Akt 1, 2 for Akt 2... To get one level you may need 5k or more XP... So that it takes Months to get all wanted skills maxed out...
That would make farming more worth it, even if you are not lucky to get decent drops

2) Coop Team play
In D2 it was easier and fun to do e.g. Baal Runs together. To level hardcore it was almost impossible to reach max lvl in solo (as a normal player).
In D3 you get punished for doing coop (MF rate not per player etc...). There is no coop game play in D3. Most of my friends are farming solo and we might be chatting. Why? It is easier and faster then doing coop and there is absolutely no benefit to do it.
How about giving coop play more NV stacks, e.g. up to 10 if you are playing with 3 others...
Or stacking the 5 NV stacks is faster in Coop, e.g. with 4 players you only have to kill one elite pack to get 5 stacks instantly.

3) Bis Items
In D2 you've maybe farmed weeks doing nothing else then Baal Runs. The motivation was you wanted to have this one legendary or set item and you had to run Baal for it... Sounds stupid, but this was somehow motivating.
In D3 you never know if you already have a very good item or if you can grab an update. This sounds fine, but at the point where you can kill everything easily and have played through the game and farm Akt3 with you MF gear (or swapping) you are almost done, no need to grind for yourself. This wouldn't worry me if this would have taken me months, but that's not the case, it took me maybe 2 weeks...
So long-term motivation in terms of Items would be to have legendary items you can farm, e.g. can only drop on bosses if you have 5 MF stacks, or only in certain zones or maybe only in Akt3/4, what ever...

Honestly, I don't care a lot about PvP, I never did in WoW and I think Diablo will not be much more entertaining. You may do go into a arena for a few runs but at some point it gets totally boring because it is always the same... PvP is and will NEVER be endgame content. It is just something some players do like and they can do beside of the other content the game provides...

Regarding the discussion about endgame content, my opinion is that your are absolutely right that D1/D2 had no end game, too, except gear farming etc...
But D1 and D2 are fairly old games. Within the past 10? years the player base changed. When D2 came out, most of us never played something like WoW, now we know what endgame content could be.
The expectation players have from such a game are different then 10 years ago.
That's why I think that you (Blizz) did not a 100% good job in designing D3, you changed a lot, the game was amazing to play through the first time, but that's it.
But actually it is not much more then many other single player games, you play it once and maybe again a year later, but not every few days per week the next couple of months.
If this is what you intended, ok, fine. But most of the player base expected more I think ;)

Hope you read my suggestions and let me know if you want more :p
There should be a stacking buff, like NV that increases your chance to get Legendary/Set items as you complete quests in an act.

Give us an incentive to kill trash and run the Acts instead of just jumping to the last quest and farming elites forever. Blue said they were against "The path of least resistance" farming from the get -go. So how about rewarding us for playing the game the way it was designed? As it stands now, the only change is "The path of least resistance is elite runs instead of boss runs and nobody really bothers playing through the game or killing trash, there's just not much point.

Also. Grouping up should always make you feel stronger. Not weaker. I want more incentives to play with friends/randoms. I hate feeling like I'm trapped online for DRM in a game that punishes me to play it.
The only time I ever enjoyed being in a group embarrassingly enough was when I first started making a dent in inferno. Was under geared after wortham and joined a public group and they carried me. While I'm sure I was not helping much in hindsight, it was the most fun I've ever had in an online game! I want that again! I want to be able to dominate Act I with friends/strangers the way I do solo, even if they are a bit weaker.
The way it is now, even if we were both equally geared/skilled it's harder. Mobs have way too much health. I want to be able to carry my gimp friends and family! Not avoid them because they make the game too hard to be fun
Then why is this game built around balancing an auction house / real money auction house rather than providing their players with pure fun entertainment? There have been thousands of threads that clearly outline how you guys have designed this game like WoW and not like the previous Diablo games. -- huh.

Loot takes weeks to find one good item, end game is nothing but grinding meaninglessly, the only way to upgrade realistically is to buy it from someone else, and co-op doesn't even exist in this game (at least not past act 1-2 with more than 2 players). While this may not be WoW, it's certainly not Diablo.

I group siegebreaker with rl friends all the time, how is there not multiplayer?
Give us Elite Onslaught, where only elites spawn continuously until everyone in the party is dead, or your team runs out of lives. Elites don't heal, and they don't enrage, only more Elites join the fray once the timer's up.

Have it tiered so that defeating a certain amount will generate loot for you depending on how many killed. And have a score kept on who killed the most, how many waves, and how much time it took.

Absolutely adore this idea! Not only Arena PVP based but Arena PVE cooperative based.. This idea +1
07/03/2012 01:03 PMPosted by Bashiok
Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose, but we believed pre-release that the item hunt would be far more sustainable, and would work to be a proper end-game for quite a while. That didn't turn out to be true, and we recognize that.

I think I have an idea of why this happened based on my own experience. I'm a pretty casual player, but I've been gaming for a long time. I also play solo because my connection isn't great.

Two things:

1) The disparity of enjoyment between the ease of leveling up and gearing through the AH verses the required grind to make progress once you hit the wall.

I knew the wall was coming, and was ready for it, but what I found was that when I went back an act to farm gear to get past the wall, the drops I found were both worthless for my progression, and the auction house.

So I figured my best bet was to farm gold. I got a cheap gold find +200%ish set, and started sprinting through the pony level. I did that for about a mind numbing week, and got enough gear to just barely make it through act 1.

Then I got one shot in act 2, and once again went back and tried to farm act 1, but it wasn't going well because I just couldn't do it without dieing frequently. That's when the patch with the repair bill hit, which forced me to throw in the towel on my Barb. I just could not make forward gear and gold progress without going back to farm face roll content slowly. At best I could make about 60K gold per hour, and "good" upgrades were selling for 1-5 million.

I re-rolled monk because I hate myself (and prefer melee).

2) Skill only takes you so far. I enjoy combat systems that give you all the options you need to control a situation and take down a monster despite your gear, so long you have the skill to execute your game flawlessly. I was really hoping that the D3 combat system would do this, but it just seems random for the sake of being random. What I would like to have seen is the varying play styles of each class have built in methods of control that can be intelligently used to overcome whatever is thrown at them without needing to grab certain skills for certain affixes or bosses. There's nothing less fun then having a pack of elites own you only because you picked X skill over Y.

If I really had my way, I would have made some skills partly dynamic based on what you're fighting. So for instance each affix could enable a skill that could be creatively used to counter it. You guys can totally rework the whole combat system, right? :D

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