Guild Wars 2 is way better then wow and D3

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So, now you've decided that since I don't love WoW that I must not have played classic WoW? I was there back in '04. But that doesn't affect my opinion.

Yes, WoW did bring a bunch of new things to the genre. However, did I ever find myself saying "Wow, this is a beautiful game!"? No. Never. The graphics were okay. Decent enough. And the story? The story and story-telling was okay. But it was never a big draw for me. I'm not entirely sure that you understand what "top-notch" means.

As for Baldur's Gate 2? It's a 12 year old game. Obviously it's going to look outdated. Graphically speaking, it's very average. However, I think it's one of the truly great games because it has great gameplay, great story, and great graphics.

How am I not giving WoW enough credit? I'm describing it as a cultural landmark in the gaming world that brought MMOs into the mainstream. I don't have much experience with the monstrous grinds that came with WoW's predecessors, but I have heard about them from people who played those games. The trouble is that WoW is still a grind-heavy game.

WoW is a good game that did a lot for the genre. But it's not a great game in my estimation.


I am a fan of Baldur's Gate 2 , obviously more than Baldur's Gate 1 since second episode was the best story wise and because you could interract with the chars. Also Throne of Bhaal was one of the best expansions ever played.

Since you are saying that you haven't played any of the MMOS before wow i can tell you how it was. There were the areas, there were the mobs and you just had to attack them and loot. Grouping was sometimes necessary , there were a 3-4 quests in the whole game and that was it. In the late levels there was some pve but the games focused on pvp.

Wow was a hell of a game because questing was A) Rewarding B) No that boring C) Had a higher end , getting to 60 were the real game started

When you reached 60 that's were the game started. If you were a casual gamer that time you lost 90% of the fun. 40 people raids with people that didn't know what to do, Curses and Debuffs that people didn't know that had to be dispelled, 40 vs 40 fights for Azuregos loot and much more. I think that the best part wasn't the game itself but how the game created bonds between people that a week or a month ago didn't even know each other. No game will ever reach the sense of accomplishment that a 40 man raid downing Ragnaros for the first time did.

Wow was a great game, but it didn't evolve at all. It remained the same and that's why now is boring for the old players.

But Guild Wars 2 is a mediocre game , and is mediocre on launch , not after 3-4 years.

That's the problem
09/13/2012 01:21 AMPosted by woNd3R
But Guild Wars 2 is a mediocre game , and is mediocre on launch , not after 3-4 years.


Can any of us predict the future? Since you are very much a WoW player, is it safe for me to assume you have not played all GW1 games nor do you follow GW1 news? GW made a lot of improvements slowly, not by increasing the level cap and introducing new areas but with whole new stories (which unexpectedly tied together in the end and also set the premise for GW2) and new game modes.

As Petyr mentioned many times nobody is belittling WoWs' success so there is no need to bring up WoWs' 3-4 years run. The reason he, you and i are here is because we all bought diablo3, correct? How many of us are still playing d3 now? In 2 months i have 5 lvl 60 avatars, a week later i was bored with farming in Inferno and asking wheres the dam PvP i paid for? Is Blizzard saying unless i pay a monthly subscriptions, i dont matter anymore? Can you say arrogance? If GW can give me more enjoyment than d3 at the same cost (and maybe more than 'post Mist of Pandaria' WoW which costs 4-5 times more) im willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.

I can say this about the future though, after Starcraft2(part1) and Diablo3, i'm not so hyped about Starcraft(part2) anymore...

Oh and GW2 did quite well on launch. Everyone pre-ordered the game and GOT IT and was playing the game instead of camping in front of Wallmart! What were you expecting? Fireworks? Free cars? Rapture?
09/13/2012 06:22 AMPosted by TheCursed
But Guild Wars 2 is a mediocre game , and is mediocre on launch , not after 3-4 years.


Can any of us predict the future? Since you are very much a WoW player, is it safe for me to assume you have not played all GW1 games nor do you follow GW1 news? GW made a lot of improvements slowly, not by increasing the level cap and introducing new areas but with whole new stories (which unexpectedly tied together in the end and also set the premise for GW2) and new game modes.

As Petyr mentioned many times nobody is belittling WoWs' success so there is no need to bring up WoWs' 3-4 years run. The reason he, you and i are here is because we all bought diablo3, correct? How many of us are still playing d3 now? In 2 months i have 5 lvl 60 avatars, a week later i was bored with farming in Hell and asking wheres the dam PvP i paid for? Is Blizzard saying unless i pay a monthly subscriptions, i dont matter anymore? Can you say arrogance? If GW can give me more enjoyment than d3 at the same cost (and maybe more than 'post Mist of Pandaria' WoW which costs 4-5 times more) im willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.

I can say this about the future though, after Starcraft2(part1) and Diablo3, i'm not so hyped about Starcraft(part2) anymore...

Oh and GW2 did quite well on launch. Everyone pre-ordered the game and GOT IT and was playing the game instead of camping in front of Wallmart! What were you expecting? Fireworks? Free cars? Rapture?


Pretty much. And Silithus, if you like WoW pvp, you will not like GW2 pvp. WoW pvp is simply better. Arenas are better then BG pvp.

Some other bad points: The combat is zergy. No matter how Petyr tries to spin it, pvp centric players hate zergy pvp. The game is a Tab spam game. You assist target or tab spam ppl down, ad nauseum. There are no healers, so this makes it even zergier and more tab spam happy.

Pvp consists of spamming dodge and your skills as soon as they come off CD. Dodge was a cool mechanic, to dodge cc and whatnot, but you quickly learn your best bet is to just spam it as soon as you got enough endurance. The only skill you really hold onto is a heal, but it soon needs spammed on cd too.

There is zero resource management except for life. You just spam your defensive keys on cd to manage it.


I think both of you misunderstood me

If you search my thread in this forum named " They are all trash " or smth similar you ll see that what i am actually saying is that all those games are boring nowadays.

You are right The Cursed though, i ve never played Guild Wars 1 since at the time i was playing Wow kinda hardcore. What i am saying though is that Guild Wars 2 is not a great game, it's a mediocre one.

Why ? The reason is explaied perfectly by Dave over there. The end game should be Pvp , but Pvp Zerg fest has always been boring.

Also you can't have Pvp without group skills, it doesn't make any sense, it isn't fun .

And since skills are not changing any time soon i don't see how pvp could improve.

I had the luck to play the best Pvp game ever made. And that was Dark Age of Camelot. What i saw in Guild Wars 2 was a bad port of that Pvp system.

Also taking a char to 80 felt like a real time job, i didn't even check on internet what were my elite skills on lvl 30, i couldn't care less tbh.

That's why i am saying it is mediocre

I am not a Blizzard fanboy, i stopped playing wow 4-5 years ago and i won't ever play that game and Blizzard screwed me big time with Diablo 3.

But hey Wow is probably among the best 3 videogames of all time
Pretty much. And Silithus, if you like WoW pvp, you will not like GW2 pvp. WoW pvp is simply better. Arenas are better then BG pvp.

Way to set up a false dichotomy. It's possible to like more than one thing. We've already been over the idea that preference =/= superior.

Some other bad points: The combat is zergy. No matter how Petyr tries to spin it, pvp centric players hate zergy pvp. The game is a Tab spam game. You assist target or tab spam ppl down, ad nauseum. There are no healers, so this makes it even zergier and more tab spam happy.

Correct, there are no dedicated healers. However, healing does exist. Group heals exist. Combat can be "zergy", but it can also be methodical and strategic. I was in a WvW match with the latter when, instead of a zerg rush, we took territory at a gradual but steady pace by using positioning and terrain advantage.

Pvp consists of spamming dodge and your skills as soon as they come off CD. Dodge was a cool mechanic, to dodge cc and whatnot, but you quickly learn your best bet is to just spam it as soon as you got enough endurance. The only skill you really hold onto is a heal, but it soon needs spammed on cd too.

Incorrect. Using any skill without discretion is just stupid. Having to constantly spam dodges and/or heals has not been my experience on any consistent basis.

There is zero resource management except for life. You just spam your defensive keys on cd to manage it.

False.

Most of the skills have long animations, castbars, windup time, whatever. Once it starts you are stuck in it for the long haul unless its like a reflect or something that requires you to stand still. This makes it feel very sloppy and unresponsive. Its like hammering on a skill in WoW while you are stunned, is the best way I can describe the combat. You are always hammering on another skill 50 times waiting on the last one to end.

False. There are skills that have animations, cast bars, wind up, etc. However, you are not "stuck" with them for the long haul. They can be cancelled. I haven't had any issues with unresponsive combat except for occasional lag. Strangely enough, the ranger that I'm leveling at this time doesn't use any skills that have these "long, unstoppable" animations. You can use different weapon sets to gear your character towards your preferred play style.

Half the time you run around spamming an auto attack. It makes the pvp get very boring after awhile, because the majority of your damage comes from number 1, which attacks for you. This leaves you a big 4 damage skills for a weapon.

As opposed to the thrill of spamming the same rotation over and over again in WoW? Not to mention that this, too, is false. You can spam your auto attack if you want. I wouldn't recommend that. There are other skills (again, depending on your weapon set) that are better for damage.

The pvp gets very clustered and spammy, and you start not being able to even see whats going on the most ppl show up. The skills have very low key or hard to notice animations. Like traps or say a smokebomb has a 2 pixel outline that shows the traps, while ppl shoot what looks like auto attacks all over the place, while ppl are spamming dodge all over the place, etc. Its not like say, a frost trap fro, a hunter, or even a smoke bomb from a rogue.

The skills are hard to notice? So, wait... at first you said that most of the skills have long animations/wind-ups, but now you can't even notice what skills people are using? I've started to recognize what the different classes are doing. And I adapt. That doesn't mean that I have to recklessly dodge all over the place.

You cant really tell whats been cast half the time. The graphics are very plain for most skills.

Not true. And I'm not entirely sure why a WoW fan would want to bring up a graphics criticism.

Its hard to really see whats going on in a decent sized battle. Ppl just dodging around spamming skills on cd till death.

This is actually a somewhat legitimate issue. There can be so many different spell/skill effects going on at the same time that someone - especially a melee character - can have difficulty parsing through everything. It can be chaotic.

Not to mention, nothing to really pvp for. No rating at this time, nothing. Just TF2 style chests. No real competition ala arena rating means its gets very old just playing what amounts to a Quake FFA deathmatch nearly everygame.

This is absolutely correct. You get literally nothing if you participate in PvP. Actually, I'm just joking. There might not be a rating system at this time, and I don't know exactly what ArenaNet is planning for the future. But you get loot, you get currency (three different kinds), and other benefits. Some people also play PvP because they enjoy it.

GW2 failed in pvp, and sold out for WvWvW and other novelty garbage that gets old quick.

Biased opinion.

GW2 doesnt bring anything but a rehashed RBG experience, which doesnt even have fans in WoW. Very few ppl really enjoy Wintersgrasp, or Tol Barad, or even RBGs. They casually dabble.

More biased opinion.

* * * * *

Slithus, don't listen to anyone in this thread. Don't listen to DynomiteDave. Hell, don't listen to me. If you can, find a friend who plays and see if you can get some first-hand experience with the game. I could give you my opinion and tell you why you'd love it. Or you could listen to DynomiteDave and his stone-cold certainty that you'll hate it because, well, he thinks Guild Wars 2 isn't any good.

But the truth is that we're both biased. And we also don't know if you'll really like it or dislike it, just based on our experience/opinions. We might think we know, but we don't. The only person here who will know if you like the game, is you. So, like I said, try to get some first-hand experience with the game. If you like it, great. If not, then I'm sorry that the game wasn't for you.

But don't let forum banter (from people who you don't even know) dictate whether or not you like a game.
i have GW2 and i really wasnt a big fan of it. Nothing in the game made me want to come back and play. It was awesome for the first 6 hours and then you realized you had everything already. And im not a fan pvp so maybe that doesnt help the cause.
I just gotta say I tried GW2 and think it is bad. Horrible environments, they feel extremely artificial. The events repeat constantly and are not dynamic at all...


They repeat constantly(i agree) if you stand in the SAME PLACE FOR HOURS. I disagree about them not being dymamic though. I notice most average events are structured this way.

...................event1
.......................l
.....succeed..................fail
........l............................l
.....event2..................event3
........l............................l
........l.........succeed....................fail
........l...............l...........................l
........l.........back_to1...............back_to3
........l
....succeed..................fail
........l...........................l
........l....................back_to3
..boss_event

Dungeon runs are even more complicated as you are required to make choices which effect your path. I dare you to give an example how WoW events/quests are more "dynamic"
woNd3R,

I think you are too obsessed with negative points.

Here are some recent PC games which i enjoyed(felt every penny was worth it); Alan Wake, Borderlands, Arkham Asylum&City, Bastion.

"Why ? The reason is explaied perfectly by Dave over there. The end game should be Pvp , but Pvp Zerg fest has always been boring.
Also you can't have Pvp without group skills, it doesn't make any sense, it isn't fun .
And since skills are not changing any time soon i don't see how pvp could improve."

These statements are untrue. There is no zergfest if you know how to play. Dont take Dave's rants as facts. There are a lot of group skills. New skills are added slowly, even more so in expansions.

'Daze' works like silence in WoW, is good against skill heavy professions with high channeling like elementalist. 'Fear', 'Blind', 'Weakness', 'Immobility' are good against melee dps professions. 'Cripple', 'Chilled', 'Immobility' are good against glass cannon professions that like to dodge. Combo a Block & Blind guy with another aoe burn/poison/damage ally and watch 5-10 Zerg's like Dave who go in to battle with default skills drop like flies. Choose your battles wisely. No point melee rushing at a ranger without 'Cripple', 'Chilled', 'Immobility'. If you are outnumbered, plant traps or spray the ground with slow/cripple effects or activate swiftness, AND WITHDRAW. Use swiftness and invisibility with 'Cripple', 'Chilled', 'Immobility' to lay ambushes on small groups.

As you can see, planning is important. I dont think you have even read up about GW2 (at least not from unbiased sources). Bigest example is when you say "Also taking a char to 80 felt like a real time job," because when you enter pvp, your lvl is raised to 80 with all skills unlocked. You can also get pvp items which are max lvl stats. Its ok if GW is not for you. im just pointing out that you dont have all the right facts. To some people, raising lvl and exploring is more fun than being max lvl.
GW2 is good, but both WoW and D3 kick dirt in its face.

And how can you compare WoW subs to GW2 subs, anyway? GW2 is buy once, play free, whereas WoW is P2P. So someone can keep their account active and not play it since they don't have to worry about a fee. So if GW2 had, say, 12 million subs, and WoW 9 million, it only means the fact that GW2 is B2P is the main enticer.
09/13/2012 07:47 PMPosted by MedievalFan
And how can you compare WoW subs to GW2 subs, anyway? GW2 is buy once, play free, whereas WoW is P2P. So someone can keep their account active and not play it since they don't have to worry about a fee. So if GW2 had, say, 12 million subs, and WoW 9 million, it only means the fact that GW2 is B2P is the main enticer.


You are actually more happy giving money away? Wow...
http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/09/13/guild-wars-2-sells-over-two-million-units
i quote the article "That's a really good number for any game, but especially impressive considering digital sales were actually suspended for a while following launch so ArenaNet could stabilize its service. According to NCsoft, the total number of players online concurrently in Guild Wars 2 routinely exceeds 400,000."

"GW2 is B2P is the main enticer" < Laughable. GW2 is not the only B2P/FtP game.
09/13/2012 12:12 PMPosted by DynomiteDave
There is zero resource management except for life.


The Thief class would beg to differ.

09/13/2012 12:12 PMPosted by DynomiteDave
Pvp consists of spamming dodge and your skills as soon as they come off CD.


I think hitting your 31, or 41 point talent as soon as it comes off of CD is the same as you described above.

Again, if you had actually played the game, you would know, most classes get two consecutive dodges until they're out of energy. Calling that "spamming" is funny.

09/13/2012 12:12 PMPosted by DynomiteDave
Most of the skills have long animations, castbars, windup time, whatever.


Have you played GW2?

09/13/2012 12:12 PMPosted by DynomiteDave
Some other bad points: The combat is zergy.


Zerg one keep after another and do not defense in WvWvW and see what happens to people who actually coordinate and talk in team chat, you'll be handed something and it rhymes with glass.

09/13/2012 12:12 PMPosted by DynomiteDave
Not to mention, nothing to really pvp for. No rating at this time, nothing. Just TF2 style chests. No real competition ala arena rating means its gets very old just playing what amounts to a Quake FFA deathmatch nearly everygame.


Again, I wonder if you even played this game, or just watched someone's stream, while I agree that having some kind of rating would be beneficial for PvP, to simply say there is no reason to PvP at all, is ignorant, odd thing is people are PvPing everyday with no motivitation according to you.

09/13/2012 12:12 PMPosted by DynomiteDave
GW2 doesnt bring anything but a rehashed RBG experience, which doesnt even have fans in WoW. Very few ppl really enjoy Wintersgrasp, or Tol Barad, or even RBGs. They casually dabble.


And I'm sure you speak for all of us, or most of us as you claim.
09/13/2012 04:51 PMPosted by Seeders
I just gotta say I tried GW2 and think it is bad. Horrible environments, they feel extremely artificial. The events repeat constantly and are not dynamic at all...


Odd, I find it's the opposite for me, zones are very well done with many different unique geographical structures that aren't just re-used models, for instance Asura and Norn starting zones feel and look completely different.

The events to me are very dynamic, maybe you didn't follow them through and actually talk to the NPC's that trigger them, many of the events can be extended by simply speaking to the NPC that started them or by following them.
woNd3R,

I think you are too obsessed with negative points.

Here are some recent PC games which i enjoyed(felt every penny was worth it); Alan Wake, Borderlands, Arkham Asylum&City, Bastion.

"Why ? The reason is explaied perfectly by Dave over there. The end game should be Pvp , but Pvp Zerg fest has always been boring.
Also you can't have Pvp without group skills, it doesn't make any sense, it isn't fun .
And since skills are not changing any time soon i don't see how pvp could improve."

These statements are untrue. There is no zergfest if you know how to play. Dont take Dave's rants as facts. There are a lot of group skills. New skills are added slowly, even more so in expansions.

'Daze' works like silence in WoW, is good against skill heavy professions with high channeling like elementalist. 'Fear', 'Blind', 'Weakness', 'Immobility' are good against melee dps professions. 'Cripple', 'Chilled', 'Immobility' are good against glass cannon professions that like to dodge. Combo a Block & Blind guy with another aoe burn/poison/damage ally and watch 5-10 Zerg's like Dave who go in to battle with default skills drop like flies. Choose your battles wisely. No point melee rushing at a ranger without 'Cripple', 'Chilled', 'Immobility'. If you are outnumbered, plant traps or spray the ground with slow/cripple effects or activate swiftness, AND WITHDRAW. Use swiftness and invisibility with 'Cripple', 'Chilled', 'Immobility' to lay ambushes on small groups.

As you can see, planning is important. I dont think you have even read up about GW2 (at least not from unbiased sources). Bigest example is when you say "Also taking a char to 80 felt like a real time job," because when you enter pvp, your lvl is raised to 80 with all skills unlocked. You can also get pvp items which are max lvl stats. Its ok if GW is not for you. im just pointing out that you dont have all the right facts. To some people, raising lvl and exploring is more fun than being max lvl.


I enjoyed Arkham City and Alan Wake , even though i think that the gameplay after a while was repetitive, but the story was worth the effort. I did try Borderlands but i didn't like it that much, but i am a big fan of Demon-Dark Souls and the last one was one of the games i liked the most this year.

Over there you are talking about Pvp and yes before writting my opinion i tried pvp. I had a Warrior, and Warriors since healers are non existant are meat shield. Also being 80 lvl is cool but you need also the equipment of an 80 lvl char and for that you have to get to 80 or close to those levels because you don't have the money to buy the necessary equipment.

As for the no zergfest i have my doubts. In high population servers either you follow the mass or you regret going around alone for one simple reason, respawning is way too much time consuming.

To sum this up, i never said Guild Wars 2 was a bad game, i always said it is mediocre. In my honest opinion it doesn't offer anything new Pve or Pvp wise. For people with low experience in MMOs it might be great, for veterans it doesn't offer anything funny.

P.S. As for pvping i am now playing Dota 2 since i think that the Pvp in that game trully delivers

And btw Pvp on Wow sucked as well
Ok, lets not argue about how we rate what game because our preference differ. I didnt like Borderlands because of the story. Its the light hearted bloodbaths and guns. ;D

as i mentioned "You can also get pvp items which are max lvl stats". That means full Lvl 80 armor and weapons with similar stats as the best lvl 80 gear but only usable in pvp. http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/56825-a-general-how-to-on-crafting-pvp-gear/
some personal effort is required but you dont hav to spend any gold. You seem to have a hard time believing this...

"As for the no zergfest i have my doubts. In high population servers either you follow the mass or you regret going around alone for one simple reason, respawning is way too much time consuming." If you want to play solo, go as a glass cannon thief with cripple/poison, hide & stalk, be patient, wait till a victim is distracted, kill! Then run.

A good dota analogy would be you are 'bounty hunter'(without bkb). If you confront a 'deamon witch' , he would spam skill you to death or skill you and run. But if you inv, stalk and wait till he unloads his skills, thats an easy kill even if he has an ally nearby. Similarly if you are ambushed by 3-5 heros, you dont cry 'zerg rush' correct?

Btw im a dedicated healer in GW2, alchemist engineer with heal gear and -40% cooldown area heal, boon & rez spam. The best 'traditional' healers in the game are water elementalists.

Im a vanila dota player. ;) Too lazy to apply for an account.
Buy it through ebay, invite costs 14$ :)
my friends are not upgrading... *shrugs. I know its basically the same with slightly altered maps
The Thief class would beg to differ.


It doesnt. And honestly at this point I cant wait to get the last laugh in 2-3 months when this game goes the route of its successor, Warhammer Online. This game is a rehashed War 2.0, and guess what? History repeats itself. This game offers nothing of note to the genre, nothing to get ppl to keep playing after the new wears off, and will go the way of all the other MMOs that keep releasing mediocre games.

Dont take my word for it, watch in a month or 2 at the drop in playerbase. Ill update this post with giggles when it happens and it will.

What's funny about this thread is I'm the only person giving precise examples while the GW2 fanboys just keep saying "no". Cracks me up


You really exposed your level of maturity and objectivity with the "giggles" and "I will come back here to laugh at you" comment.

Laugh all you want, no one but you will care.

It's funny you use WAR as a comparison (based purely on DEs i'm sure). That is what you call grasping at straws. I played WAR and GW is superior to it in a number of ways, not the least of which is PVE.

You can tell you have lost an argument when you have to resort to the "fanboy" or "hater" name game.

Edit: and btw it is "predecessor", not "successor", get educated.
You know what, Dave? Thanks. You convinced me. You totally convinced me that Guildwars is so much better because people like you stay away from it. In fact please hate all the games i play so i dont have to deal with you in the game. Please stay with WoW and the rest of the Kung Fu Panda cast forever. Thanks a bunch.

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