The Definitive Sustained-Archon Guide

Wizard
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I think it would be reasonable to estimate the DPS requirement by the average monster HP provided by Blizz.

Just run a speadsheet

MP 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
HP 150.00% 225.00% 326.00% 457.00% 639.00% 895.00% 1253.00% 1755.00% 2457.00% 3439.00%
DPS 100 150 217.3333333 304.6666667 426 596.6666667 835.3333333 1170 1638 2292.666667

So this roughly means with 305K DPS in MP4 you will feel like running 100K DPS in MP1, not counting monster damage ofc.
Would it be more effective to drop about 5k dps for an extra 12% movespeed?
Found a pair of lacuni prowlers and wondering if I should use them. Also, do you stop to pick up yellows or just legends?
10/20/2012 08:56 AMPosted by choppies
Would it be more effective to drop about 5k dps for an extra 12% movespeed?


Speed is key. You should hardly need to ask the question. Until you have 24%, you are hurting your sustained archon.

10/20/2012 08:56 AMPosted by choppies
Also, do you stop to pick up yellows or just legends?


Definitely pick up rares. You'll see as you go along how much time it takes you, so you're going to want minimum thresholds. Examples:

-ilvl 61 weapons have lower base damage despite being able to roll ilvl 63 affixes. The odds of them being sellable are much lower.
-Shields are largely worthless, regardless of affixes (exception: high ST/VIT/MF ones for use on templars).
-Quivers, Sources, Mojos are usually not valuable, since many players get legendary ones.
-All daibos are garbage
kobune had this great idea, using the known HP and DMG percentages, we can make pretty accurate guesses as to how much DPS is required for each MP. Props to Shelendil as his initial guesses were extremely close to what I came up with.


MP HP DPS1(K) DPS2(K) DMG EHP(K) MF XP
base 100 53 66 100 200 0 0
1 150 79.5 99 114 228 25 10
2 225 119.25 148.5 130 260 50 20
3 326 172.78 215.16 148 296 75 30
4 457 242.21 301.62 169 338 100 45
5 639 338.67 421.74 193 386 125 60
6 895 474.35 590.7 220 440 150 75
7 1253 664.09 826.98 250 500 175 95
8 1755 930.15 1158.3 285 570 200 115
9 2457 1302.21 1621.62 325 650 225 135
10 3439 1822.67 2269.74 371 742 250 160


HP = HP multiplier for that MP
DPS1 = minimum DPS required for that MP
DPS2 = roflstomp for given MP
DMG = monster damage multipler for that MP, these numbers are post nerf
EHP = EHP estimate for that MP, i just threw this in as rough estimate, the starting point is probably off, but the idea is the same. Will require further tuning.
MF/XP = MF and XP bonus for given MP, i added to info here to show how much you are gaining by moving up in MP. (i.e. probably not worth it)

Now before people say , "lolz, i can do MP-X and I am below your min dps!".
Being able to DO archon and running archon efficiently are two totally different things. (I am surprised so many people still dont get this idea and it's really annoying me)
These numbers are for "EFFICIENT" archon runs, to me that means flying through the act in ~30-40mins while hitting most areas.
kobune had this great idea, using the known HP and DMG percentages, we can make pretty accurate guesses as to how much DPS is required for each MP. Props to Shelendil as his initial guesses were extremely close to what I came up with.


MP HP DPS1(K) DPS2(K) DMG EHP(K) MF XP
base 100 53 66 100 200 0 0
1 150 79.5 99 114 228 25 10
2 225 119.25 148.5 130 260 50 20
3 326 172.78 215.16 148 296 75 30
4 457 242.21 301.62 169 338 100 45
5 639 338.67 421.74 193 386 125 60
6 895 474.35 590.7 220 440 150 75
7 1253 664.09 826.98 250 500 175 95
8 1755 930.15 1158.3 285 570 200 115
9 2457 1302.21 1621.62 325 650 225 135
10 3439 1822.67 2269.74 371 742 250 160


HP = HP multiplier for that MP
DPS1 = minimum DPS required for that MP
DPS2 = roflstomp for given MP
DMG = monster damage multipler for that MP, these numbers are post nerf
EHP = EHP estimate for that MP, i just threw this in as rough estimate, the starting point is probably off, but the idea is the same. Will require further tuning.
MF/XP = MF and XP bonus for given MP, i added to info here to show how much you are gaining by moving up in MP. (i.e. probably not worth it)

Now before people say , "lolz, i can do MP-X and I am below your min dps!".
Being able to DO archon and running archon efficiently are two totally different things. (I am surprised so many people still dont get this idea and it's really annoying me)
These numbers are for "EFFICIENT" archon runs, to me that means flying through the act in ~30-40mins while hitting most areas.


Yeah I have to admit 100K DPS might be an over kill for MP1:P Now I have 116K DPS and 260K EHP out of Archon and feel just right at MP2, so I think the estimate is quite reliable.

Btw, monster damage was nerfed in the hotfix this Tuesday and we need less EHP now.

I made this post about the diminishing rewards of MP system but no one really cares... I'm a boring player who favors efficiency over "challenge":P

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6794643378
Thank you very much for your post. I was contemplating going archon for a while and this had provided me with invaluable information. Can you please evaluate my profile and see (Naturally aside from my weapon that lacks LS) if i am ready for Perma Archonmode ?

Edit: 110k DPS (will probably drop with LS weapon as I have few mill left after shopping splurge last night for good LS weapon) 230k eHP.
kobune,
my DMG numbers are up to date with latest nerf patch. the latest patch didnt really help archons that much because we dont get hit much anyway. however, if anyone is still using prismatic armor, they should definitely consider dumping it in favor of more dps oriented armors.

vladis,
you should be fine, just run mp1, it's so ez mode now, you can just over power it , just take caution on reflect packs.

things are so ez now, there's absolutely no reason why anyone should run anything but archon for xp farming.
kobune,
my DMG numbers are up to date with latest nerf patch. the latest patch didnt really help archons that much because we dont get hit much anyway. however, if anyone is still using prismatic armor, they should definitely consider dumping it in favor of more dps oriented armors.

vladis,
you should be fine, just run mp1, it's so ez mode now, you can just over power it , just take caution on reflect packs.

things are so ez now, there's absolutely no reason why anyone should run anything but archon for xp farming.


EHP may be most relevant with reflect packs. A single rare with 3.5M HP in MP2 can reflect like 350K damage with 10% ratio. Last night I was slaughtered by a Reflect/Elec/Horde/Waller skeleton executioner pack in KD2 and I still don't have a good way to fight these types.

That's the same reason why I still stick to Prismatic Armor. I tried Thunderstorm and Scramble for the first couple of days in 1.0.5 and found I can die as fast as those reflect packs, even with 3% LS + Blood Magic. I can only say no life leech will compensate for poor defense... Yes I spend a couple of minutes more per run without scramble, but in most cases I can feel confident to right click on a pack before reading their affixes:)

Archon is hands down THE most efficient wizard build for both XP and loot farming. Even as me picking every single rare :P I can get about 25M XP per hour.

That's the same reason why I still stick to Prismatic Armor. I tried Thunderstorm and Scramble for the first couple of days in 1.0.5 and found I can die as fast as those reflect packs, even with 3% LS + Blood Magic. .


Yea it is a problem, but you can adjust the playstyle. When I run into reflect packs, I hit them and see how fast their life drops compared to mine. Certain packs have way less life, like those razorspikes and goblin things, compared to bigger mobs. You can usually burn the little guys without issue. Pop a health potion at the halfway point if you are in trouble.

When you run into a difficult reflect pack, try to single out a target, and also aim for non reflect white mobs in between. If there are none around, just burn the single target to 50%, take a health pot, then burn the rest and grab his healing globe, and move to next target. try to kite the remaining mobs a bit until there are non-reflect enemies on screen to leech health from.

it's only a problem if you burn without looking at the affixes and hit 3-4 reflect simultaneously.

That's the same reason why I still stick to Prismatic Armor. I tried Thunderstorm and Scramble for the first couple of days in 1.0.5 and found I can die as fast as those reflect packs, even with 3% LS + Blood Magic. .


Yea it is a problem, but you can adjust the playstyle. When I run into reflect packs, I hit them and see how fast their life drops compared to mine. Certain packs have way less life, like those razorspikes and goblin things, compared to bigger mobs. You can usually burn the little guys without issue. Pop a health potion at the halfway point if you are in trouble.

When you run into a difficult reflect pack, try to single out a target, and also aim for non reflect white mobs in between. If there are none around, just burn the single target to 50%, take a health pot, then burn the rest and grab his healing globe, and move to next target. try to kite the remaining mobs a bit until there are non-reflect enemies on screen to leech health from.

it's only a problem if you burn without looking at the affixes and hit 3-4 reflect simultaneously.


Haha that's what I'm doing now. I know it may sound mindless and make the run too easy, but it's also what I regard as "efficiency". I lose efficiency by not taking scramble, but I gain speed on every reflect pack (they account for >50% in my runs) if I have prismatic on. Overall these two styles may be equally efficient, only personal preference:)

I have a question for Eliminator and any other archon expert here. When archon drops for whatever reason and you encounter an elite pack, do you pop archon, burning them down, hoping there would be a pack of trash mobs in the next room? Or you use regular spells to kill the elites and only pop archon again when you see enough trash mobs? I'm currently choosing the second way but feel a bit lame. It happened to me so many times that I cannot find enough trash after I beam down the elites and then lose archon again.
nice thread, tried 400+k dps teleport archon(24% ms) on mp5 but still couldnt keep it up whole time.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7006341256
10/27/2012 07:17 PMPosted by aw3s0m0
nice thread, tried 400+k dps teleport archon(24% ms) on mp5 but still couldnt keep it up whole time.


try classic act 3 run with a stone of jordan, tele archon and scramble
Elin, thanks for the valuable info. I'm an aspiring arching wizards and the info helped a lot. Was wondering if I could friend you so you could give me some tips on gear and what I need to alter to make it more efficient. Thanks!
I'm also kinda operating on a budget but do have some gold I can spend. So budget options are appreciated!
nice thread, tried 400+k dps teleport archon(24% ms) on mp5 but still couldnt keep it up whole time.


try classic act 3 run with a stone of jordan, tele archon and scramble

tele archon + scramble worked well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEH-XmAp9xM
[quote]

Yea it is a problem, but you can adjust the playstyle. When I run into reflect packs, I hit them and see how fast their life drops compared to mine. Certain packs have way less life, like those razorspikes and goblin things, compared to bigger mobs. You can usually burn the little guys without issue. Pop a health potion at the halfway point if you are in trouble.

When you run into a difficult reflect pack, try to single out a target, and also aim for non reflect white mobs in between. If there are none around, just burn the single target to 50%, take a health pot, then burn the rest and grab his healing globe, and move to next target. try to kite the remaining mobs a bit until there are non-reflect enemies on screen to leech health from.


Thats a lot of time wasted...
[quote]

Yea it is a problem, but you can adjust the playstyle. When I run into reflect packs, I hit them and see how fast their life drops compared to mine. Certain packs have way less life, like those razorspikes and goblin things, compared to bigger mobs. You can usually burn the little guys without issue. Pop a health potion at the halfway point if you are in trouble.

When you run into a difficult reflect pack, try to single out a target, and also aim for non reflect white mobs in between. If there are none around, just burn the single target to 50%, take a health pot, then burn the rest and grab his healing globe, and move to next target. try to kite the remaining mobs a bit until there are non-reflect enemies on screen to leech health from.


Thats a lot of time wasted...


It takes more time to read what I wrote than actually kill a reflect pack in Archon form ;) You do it super fast and after a while it's just natural. Besides with scramble and tele it's not hard to find mobs if you need them.


Thats a lot of time wasted...


It takes more time to read what I wrote than actually kill a reflect pack in Archon form ;) You do it super fast and after a while it's just natural. Besides with scramble and tele it's not hard to find mobs if you need them.


Or you could just run prismatic armor and save yourself the trouble of doing all that just to kill a reflect dmg pack...


It takes more time to read what I wrote than actually kill a reflect pack in Archon form ;) You do it super fast and after a while it's just natural. Besides with scramble and tele it's not hard to find mobs if you need them.


Or you could just run prismatic armor and save yourself the trouble of doing all that just to kill a reflect dmg pack...


Yeah that's the way I choose right now. One thing good to note is that every tick of reflected damage also triggers scramble, so couchy's advice is quite feasible and I have tried that before. Just ended up using prismatic to faceroll:)
[quote]

I have a question for Eliminator and any other archon expert here. When archon drops for whatever reason and you encounter an elite pack, do you pop archon, burning them down, hoping there would be a pack of trash mobs in the next room? Or you use regular spells to kill the elites and only pop archon again when you see enough trash mobs? I'm currently choosing the second way but feel a bit lame. It happened to me so many times that I cannot find enough trash after I beam down the elites and then lose archon again.


in most situations, the correct choice is to use your regular spells to burn down elite packs. because like u said, if u pop archon, chances are you'll lose it after u take down the pack, and u end up with huge downtime.

your 2 optional spells should enable you to take a pack headon without much trouble.

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