Request for response on state of Monks..

General Discussion
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empower the rest of your shareholders, not just barbarellas.
In live game we're at a decent place. On the PTR we're not. Nerfing our defense but buffing no offensive powers at all? High armor is tough for a monk to achieve, now you're taking 1200 of it away from me.. but its ok because the monsters hit for less... except we are also making tougher monsters with better rewards so they will hit harder so you will need that armor but we want you play at mp2 cause mp5+ is only for barbs who've spent 10 million on their gear not for the monks who have spent 100 million.
bad money move blizz, you're about to lose all that good money from the monks.
HAHAHA what a joke, does anyone at blizz play a monk?? I mean play a monk, as your main, in inferno. I guess we should have took the hint when you made a 4 piece non-glove/weapon/ring/ammy set with not 1 guaranteed resist on it... so what if we use 4 pieces of inna's just get double resist on our shoulders/boots/bracers and call it good with 300all?? or should we stack it on them on the pieces that have crit/cd/ais/dex/vit on them, Oh wait items only have 6 properties on them, so its actually impossible to roll enough resist to be on par with a barb...

If you did play a monk, i would assume you would try out MP7 with some "good" gear (120kdps+, 700+All resist, 2.6+ lifesteal, 6500 Armor+ - all, 40k+hp all unbuffed) you would then come to the conclusion that monks are only equivalent/superior to other classes when they have enough DPS to burst to down at least 1 elite and all trash through the duration of blind/serenity? You would also come to the conclusion that this is impossible regardless of gear in MP7+... Barbs and range classes can still use the same strategies they use now for MP7 with decent gear (sustain and kite respectively) monks cannot in MP7.

The game is/was not balanced around MP7 - if you remember at launch monks were all at 900 resists and 8000 armor and were still the worst class in the game because of it. 1.04 allowed them to drop that resist and go for dps and compete with most other classes (except barb of course).

Barbs are just facerolling MP7+ content, its just a matter of raising dps for them to improve efficiency.

Ranged have to kite again, but they can continue to dps while kiting.

Monks are back as a melee demon hunter that can only dps about 40% of the time and is running to avoid being surrounded the rest...
Passive skills

Number of passives avaliable

Barbs: 16
Monks: 13 (-1 Guiding light, useless in solo)
DH: 15
WD: 15
WZ: 15

Number of class cannon passives

Barbs: 6
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/passive/ruthless
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/passive/weapons-master
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/passive/berserker-rage
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/passive/relentless
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/passive/brawler
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/passive/boon-of-bulkathos

Monks: 1
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/monk/passive/combination-strike

DH: 6(7)
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/steady-aim
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/cull-the-weak
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/night-stalker
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/archery
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/grenadier
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/sharpshooter
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/ballistics

WD: 5(7)
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/passive/circle-of-life
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/passive/gruesome-feast
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/passive/blood-ritual
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/passive/pierce-the-veil
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/passive/fetish-sycophants
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/passive/fierce-loyalty
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/passive/grave-injustice

WZ: 6(7)
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/passive/glass-cannon
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/passive/cold-blooded
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/passive/conflagration
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/passive/paralysis
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/passive/critical-mass
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/passive/arcane-dynamo
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/passive/unstable-anomaly

Monks

So by comparing, we have 13 in solo, 14 in party.
2 of the most used and usefull passives are nerfed :/

By 13 passives, ONE is a dmg passive, a 8% dmg increase( http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/monk/passive/combination-strike ).
To increase the efficiency of that ONE dmg passive we have, we need to use a mixture of other spirit generator skills.
Resolve gives us 20% dmg reduction in 1.0.5, a nerf, and it only works when dmg is dealth to the target and only last 2.5 sec. Comparing to barbs have superstion ( http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/passive/superstition ) an passive 20% reduction that by chance grants 3 fury.
Comparing additionally from all other classes is the same.

You might say: " - Well monks got blinding flash with a 30% dmg bonus "
I'll reply with:

Barbs
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/passive/brawler
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/passive/berserker-rage

WZ
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/passive/glass-cannon
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/passive/cold-blooded
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/passive/conflagration

DH
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/steady-aim
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/cull-the-weak
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/archery
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/sharpshooter

This continues when comparing monks skills, and even the WD skills in some cases with the other classes.

In this game, killing monster is the main attribute, doing it fast and doing it massive. Hacking'n slashing through monsters as effective as you can accomplish.

Why can the other classes go full class cannons or dps builds supported by BOTH skills and passives, in a variety of ways, but monks and locked in that sense.

Some may choose crit build as monk, using dodge as a great way to survive.
Well Back slash does 35% dmg each dodge. ( http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/monk/active/mantra-of-evasion )
And if you use Cyclon wind combined with high crit chance. The Cyclon wind itself does: 15, 30, 45% dmg around you in a small area.
The winds does 20% dmg each time they electricute a target.

Why the small %'s? They are both LoH reduces, low on dmg but these are one of the most used dmg sources avaliable to compensate for the low dps.

a Bonus thing:

Compare 2 skills

Get ur crit dmg bonus gear on and crit with Vulture claw kick: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/monk/active/lashing-tail-kick

Now use the http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/monk/active/wave-of-light with wall of light.

skill 1: 30 spirit cost, fire dmg, 258% dmg, result higher crit dmg.
skill 2: 75 spirit cost, holy dmg, 565% dmg, result lower crit dmg.

Try it urself and see the differance, the more %crit dmg bonus you've got the clearer the differance is.

Somone might say "Well duh, its fire the other is holy"
So the spawn of evil is more resistant to the Holy than the Fire? Makes no sense.

So monks are using Holy spells that mobs are more resistant to then anything else?

Please compare and see for yourself that monks are by far an undeveloped class.

Share your thoughts :)
please no! my monk sucks enough as is.
yes more buffs for my monk!!!!
Want to give Monks a more unique stance in terms of class balance?

Give them Strength as an additional damage booster. Not the full 100% effect Barbarians get, but perhaps 25-50% of Strength is added to their damage potential. Monks would then have a reason to wear strength/dexterity gear which would boost damage, armor, and dexterity. They would also be the only class to benefit from two different main stats and thus be even more uniquely positioned in the game.
10/03/2012 08:26 PMPosted by RYAN
Wizard here. Since both of our classes are our Blizzard's sh*t list let's all be friends, k? :)


Okay.. Let's make a petitiion to make Wizards and Monks to be converted to just followers...


I do not even know why we (wizards and monks) bother to provide feedback as Blizzard just rely on their feelings.

"We feel monks are okay, we will work on wizards some day", that is all we have got.

Come on Blizz, most of Wizz and Monks have been saying for days that their class sucks hard on PTR, but you feel that all players are wrong, that you know what is okay, what is balanced.

So why are you asking feedback from us if you do not even listen ?
10/03/2012 05:35 PMPosted by Vaeflare
We feel that monks are in a decent place at the moment, and are a solid class in terms of power,


........................
Give them Strength as an optional damage booster. Not the full 100% effect Barbarians get, but perhaps 25-50% of Strength is added to their damage potential. Monks would then have a reason to wear strength/dexterity gear which would boost damage, armor, and dexterity. They would also be the only class to benefit from two different main stats and thus be even more uniquely positioned in the game.
Wouldn't work due to the affix split. If affixes were more numerous, sure.
But as it is, Monks need to occupy 2 affixes on gear (Resist all + one other resist) to compete. Now you're aruging for 3...
Be nice to see a BLUE at least acknowledging that many top monks are selling up and admitting to the reason WHY but that isn't going to happen is it? As far as asking for a BLUE response to monk's problems maybe that was a mistake. Just quit your monk and roll a barb or just quit D3 and move on.
10/03/2012 08:38 PMPosted by Al3XD


Okay.. Let's make a petitiion to make Wizards and Monks to be converted to just followers...


I do not even know why we (wizards and monks) bother to provide feedback as Blizzard just rely on their feelings.

"We feel monks are okay, we will work on wizards some day", that is all we have got.

Come on Blizz, most of Wizz and Monks have been saying for days that their class sucks hard on PTR, but you feel that all players are wrong, that you know what is okay, what is balanced.

So why are you asking feedback from us if you do not even listen ?


Barbs have weak, unused passives: DOUBLE EVERYTHING! (And they aren't even bad passives, just ruthless and weapon master is so stupidly OP)

Monks have weak, unused passives and are pigeon-holed into the only 3 OK passives they have: Nerf EVERYTHING! Nerf STI! Nerf OWE (impending)! Nerf Nerf Nerf! Nah it's fine, they are in a decent place.
We feel that monks are in a decent place at the moment, and are a solid class in terms of power, but there are some things that we would like to address with the class. Namely: we would like to delve deeper into fulfilling the fantasy of what it means to be a monk.

Currently, monks spend a lot of their time applying an assortment of DPS buffs through the use of utility and survivability buttons. The bulk of monk damage comes from very passive gameplay, like healing yourself to get a damage buff, or applying Sweeping Winds and not looking at it again. We want to give players who enjoy the fantasy of being a blur of fists and feet a more active playstyle, and we’d love to play up some other fun mechanics as well.

For example, one possibility we’re considering is changing one of Dashing Strike’s runes to allow players to travel further with the skill so that it can serve as a mobility tool, but at the cost of imposing a cooldown. Another possibility we’re exploring is making Lashing Tail Kick feel more compelling by moving the knockback component to a rune, or changing a rune to remove the knockback and instead increase the damage more meaningfully. These types of changes are not minor tweaks, however. We want to make sure we take some time to make meaningful changes that improve the overall play experience for these sacred warriors.


I left when the 1.03 patch went active, too many nerfs. The 1.04 patch comes along after the long silence from Bli$$, an indication that Bli$$ realized you're in serious trouble, time to listen to your player base. Of course I chose to play a Monk and this is your answer. More nerfs and cool downs for 1.05.

I do notice when a nerf anti-character decision is made, the operative word in the Blue post is "feel", an emotive based decision not based on common sense, logical thinking skills. Vaeflare, I would appreciate it if you pass along to your employers that taking away and penalizing choices is what got Bli$$ into this mess in the first place. Hence the Wyatt Chang letter. Also, Jay's total silence while the forum exploded until he made the loser comment and posted a letter as damage control, among his comments was the player base should be acknowledged, their input taken into consideration. Yet here Bli$$ is again, repeating history.

I was under the impression that months of flaming Bli$$ on their own forum due to the lack of communication regarding a well loved franchise lacking quality from its predecessors was a valuable, hard earned lesson on your part. Apparently not.

Add skills and passives, allow more choices, expand the skill bar, reduce the cool downs, tweak the RNG gear drop, add more content, allow people to play unhindered. What's so hard to understand about that.
Passive skills

Number of passives avaliable

Barbs: 16
Monks: 13 (-1 Guiding light, useless in solo)
DH: 15
WD: 15
WZ: 15

Number of class cannon passives

Barbs: 6
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/passive/ruthless
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/passive/weapons-master
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/passive/berserker-rage
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/passive/relentless
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/passive/brawler
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/passive/boon-of-bulkathos

Monks: 1
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/monk/passive/combination-strike

DH: 6(7)
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/steady-aim
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/cull-the-weak
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/night-stalker
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/archery
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/grenadier
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/sharpshooter
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/ballistics

WD: 5(7)
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/passive/circle-of-life
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/passive/gruesome-feast
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/passive/blood-ritual
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/passive/pierce-the-veil
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/passive/fetish-sycophants
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/passive/fierce-loyalty
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/passive/grave-injustice

WZ: 6(7)
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/passive/glass-cannon
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/passive/cold-blooded
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/passive/conflagration
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/passive/paralysis
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/passive/critical-mass
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/passive/arcane-dynamo
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/passive/unstable-anomaly

Monks

So by comparing, we have 13 in solo, 14 in party.
2 of the most used and usefull passives are nerfed :/

By 13 passives, ONE is a dmg passive, a 8% dmg increase( http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/monk/passive/combination-strike ).
To increase the efficiency of that ONE dmg passive we have, we need to use a mixture of other spirit generator skills.
Resolve gives us 20% dmg reduction in 1.0.5, a nerf, and it only works when dmg is dealth to the target and only last 2.5 sec. Comparing to barbs have superstion ( http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/passive/superstition ) an passive 20% reduction that by chance grants 3 fury.
Comparing additionally from all other classes is the same.

You might say: " - Well monks got blinding flash with a 30% dmg bonus "
I'll reply with:

Barbs
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/passive/brawler
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/passive/berserker-rage

WZ
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/passive/glass-cannon
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/passive/cold-blooded
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/wizard/passive/conflagration

DH
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/steady-aim
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/cull-the-weak
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/archery
* http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/demon-hunter/passive/sharpshooter

This continues when comparing monks skills, and even the WD skills in some cases with the other classes.

In this game, killing monster is the main attribute, doing it fast and doing it massive. Hacking'n slashing through monsters as effective as you can accomplish.

Why can the other classes go full class cannons or dps builds supported by BOTH skills and passives, in a variety of ways, but monks and locked in that sense.

Some may choose crit build as monk, using dodge as a great way to survive.
Well Back slash does 35% dmg each dodge. ( http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/monk/active/mantra-of-evasion )
And if you use Cyclon wind combined with high crit chance. The Cyclon wind itself does: 15, 30, 45% dmg around you in a small area.
The winds does 20% dmg each time they electricute a target.

Why the small %'s? They are both LoH reduces, low on dmg but these are one of the most used dmg sources avaliable to compensate for the low dps.

a Bonus thing:

Compare 2 skills

Get ur crit dmg bonus gear on and crit with Vulture claw kick: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/monk/active/lashing-tail-kick

Now use the http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/class/monk/active/wave-of-light with wall of light.

skill 1: 30 spirit cost, fire dmg, 258% dmg, result higher crit dmg.
skill 2: 75 spirit cost, holy dmg, 565% dmg, result lower crit dmg.

Try it urself and see the differance, the more %crit dmg bonus you've got the clearer the differance is.

Somone might say "Well duh, its fire the other is holy"
So the spawn of evil is more resistant to the Holy than the Fire? Makes no sense.

So monks are using Holy spells that mobs are more resistant to then anything else?

Please compare and see for yourself that monks are by far an undeveloped class.

Share your thoughts :)


Agree. Monk has the most retarded passives in D3.
Blue post on monks ACTUALLY made things worse. What a surprise.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6794319883?page=9

See this post. It's long, but a good in-depth read. +1 like it for some attention.
Hey... wonder what happens if the community "dislikes" a blue post? Does it disappear?
I think I just looked through nine pages of complete !@#$%^-s. What the *!@# is so wrong with the monk?

My opinion? You all suck donkey junk at playing video games that require $%^-ing skill. I love my monk, and keep in mind I have not farmed for 1000 hours, in fact I play 5 days a week, maybe 1-2 hours a day. I completed inferno before the 1.04 patch came out and before my monk was good. I only have 30k damage, and I wreck shop....

So where is the disconnect between all of you and me? I don't think I have the best of gear, although I built my monk very smart. I utilized what I need, stacking a LOT of LoH, crit damage and chance, and resistances.

I can solo act4 inferno in a 4-man game, and when I play coop I am almost ALWAYS the only one who doesn't die, compared to every other paper mache class out there (besides the barbarian).

Sure they do more damage, but ffs people give the complaining a rest. I am SO happy they aren't making changes to my monk, besides maybe a few minor ones. I have plans for upgrades in the near future to bring my damage up to about 80-120k, tripling my output, and only sacrificing some resistances.

Quit your monks everybody, please GOD quit. Then the market value on our gear will be lower. haha. Have a nice day

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