Disconnect Deaths Kill HARDCORE Gameplay

Hardcore
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There is a huge difference between random encounters in the game (bad affix combos on tough mobs or double packs) and random DC's.

I can stand dying to random encounters in the game. If I leap blindly into a champion pack and there is another one right next to it it then I'll deal with it and be happy. it adds to the excitement and is why I play hardcore. I find it extremely boring having not risk at all. It's why I soloed Diablo and played on MP1 instead of safely farming Act 1 MP0.

But, the key point is, it's avoidable risk. I can make sure I'm in an area I'm geared enough for so I can at least escape from a bad encounter. It's why I didn't go into Inferno Act 4 when Opressors had their WTF-Double-Damage-From-Offscreen-Charge. I knew about that and could avoid it - by not going in to that act until it was fixed (or I was massively over geared).

DC's are completely different. You might be able to over gear so a couple of Act 1 MP0 white mobs can't kill you while DC'd but anything else you're dreaming. There is no skill involved - you don't even see it coming.

Now, I do *kind* of agree with the point that it's a known issue with the game so be prepared for it - in the sense that I was aware I could DC. But being aware of something and it being fair are completely different things.

I admit did knowingly have my head in the sand there. Because it hadn't happened yet I figured it might not happen. Now that it has I'm left with some !@#$ty options - keep playing and it may happen again, play SC or stop playing.

I'm going to choose stop playing.


This is just it lots of People feel like well Softcore is just does not Do it for me after you get the Rush out of Hardcore. - Seem like bunch of the HC people you have on your friends list are getting higher numbers of Offline Days cause they have stopped playing.

Thats with anything, if you're making a house of cards and someone comes and bumps the table at random intervals when ever it seems like you're getting some place. Well you stop putting effort into that hobby or at least at that location.

Same thing here there are other things we can do with our time. If something keeps stealing your progress and you don't ever get a fair return for your effort you stop doing it. That's it plain and simple.

Fair Return for playing Hardcore is a well Deserved Heroic Death. Not a Disconnect Death.

But when you Play HC all the Time and Start seeing deaths from things that are not your fault in anyway shape or form. Bugs, Overpowered New Mob tell they fix it(IE Key Wardens when they 1st arrived), and random disconnects.. when you did not make one wrong move and got to make it 60+ levels all over it is disconcerting to say the least.

This is just the thing. I killed my lvl 60(5) WD cause I hopped up the MP thought I was Bad and got waller jail froze arcane to death. Ok no problem my fault, but in the process of getting back to 60th lvl WD I have lost TWO toons to Disconnects lvl 41 and 58 and it Sucks to have to die when you don't really deserve to die. Then you feel like well how the hell far will I make this time before a DC gets me and I got to start over. I just Kills the Game Play when it is something Blizzard can fix in any number of ways listed in this Thread.

We should be protected from death during unpredictable and unpreventable connection loss.
When our only option of play is ONLINE thanks to Blizzards Game Design.
Like i said before, i doubt if they will do anything about this issues that ppls out there get d/c or loss connection, etcs. Its not Blizzard fault, infact they do warn us about when they going to bring the servers down for maintences, etcs.

So you just have to test it and see how stable it is. For laptop user, if the power goes out then you have battery backup for limit time. For pc users, can buy a backup power units. And of ISP, well they wont tell you if they are working on the line or equipments. So pretty much everything else is a gamble playing in Hardcore.

Samnthing in Diablo II, they never helped or fix the problems. So get use to it.
Blizzard should remove hardcore mode if they are not going address disconnect deaths. Instead they should keep a count of deaths for each character in softcore. Give a option to graveyard/archive a softcore character on death. If would be up to the player to start over on a softcore death that was a legit death in their minds.
11/07/2012 05:43 AMPosted by GOONDO
Blizzard should remove hardcore mode if they are not going address disconnect deaths.


You might want to think about things a little before suggesting stuff like this. If they don't address disconnects, and you don't play anything but SC because they don't address disconnects, how does having HC in the game hurt you?

Whereas, I don't have fun playing SC since I started playing HC. Taking HC out might not affect you, but for someone like me, it would mean I'd either have to play SC and self-delete on death, or not play at all.
This is the same argument that has been going on since launch and connections problems were MUCH worse... Blizzard isn't going to change Hardcore to be different than Softcore, and I don't want them too...
11/07/2012 05:43 AMPosted by GOONDO
Blizzard should remove hardcore mode if they are not going address disconnect deaths. Instead they should keep a count of deaths for each character in softcore. Give a option to graveyard/archive a softcore character on death. If would be up to the player to start over on a softcore death that was a legit death in their minds.


No thanks loving HARDCORE mode (hence the name). I've been playing HC since D2 when D/C deaths were the norm...I played hardcore when I was deployed to flipping Afghanistan tired of all these softcore whines IMHO.
11/07/2012 05:49 AMPosted by FireSickle
This is the same argument that has been going on since launch and connections problems were MUCH worse... Blizzard isn't going to change Hardcore to be different than Softcore, and I don't want them too...


DC protection would work just as well in SC. But would anyone even care?

Since Hardcore is by definition different that Softcore (I.e. permadeath) and DC's often result in character death I feel treating DC's differently in HC is justified if it's going to be more of a hassle for SC players.
11/03/2012 02:10 PMPosted by Anomie
Now, I do *kind* of agree with the point that it's a known issue with the game so be prepared for it - in the sense that I was aware I could DC. But being aware of something and it being fair are completely different things.


Life isn't fair. Since I'm on a movie quote kick today, I'll add: "Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something".

I'm not saying it's fair. I'm saying it is how it is. I'm saying if people want to do well in hardcore, they're better off knowing that and being mentally prepared for it. If they have fun playing HC they're better off playing HC with full knowledge and preparation than thinking that not playing HC will somehow make blizzard do something about it.

And if we could re-program life so no one died of cancer would you argue against that as well? Life IS unfair, but Diablo 3 is not life... Well, not for most of us. :)

This is something that is well within Blizzards power to fix and a lot of people think they should. Do you have something against DC protection it self or just how people go about asking for it?

I'm going to choose stop playing.


And that's a perfectly acceptable choice, too. Until it gets to the point where it's basically becoming "I'm gonna cry on the forums about how I'm not going to play until something is done". At that point it is, imho, nothing more than a childish attempt at manipulation. (Not saying you are doing this, necessarily. But there are a lot of posts, not even necessarily about DCs, that approach that kind of mentality).

Fair enough, but this thread and many others have been constructive, asking for it to be fixed and offering suggestions. Others might not have been but that doesn't make the whole issue invalid.
Here another things, for those who died alot in softcore is bad too, they should loses MFs. Esp in a game by 10-20% per death, but not in career stats.

So if you play bad, then you get bad drops lol. For hardcore players, there no room for errors, so if you play bad, then your dead!

And if we could re-program life so no one died of cancer would you argue against that as well? Life IS unfair, but Diablo 3 is not life... Well, not for most of us. :)


Of course I wouldn't argue against that.

This is something that is well within Blizzards power to fix and a lot of people think they should. Do you have something against DC protection it self or just how people go about asking for it?


I'm not arguing against DC protection. I'm saying that there's no indication Blizzard will actually do that. I also have background in network administration (I used to write little hack & spoofing programs as part of that) and write code for a living - my current job title is the somewhat (imho) pompous "Principal Software Engineer" - and I think that people saying it's 'well within Blizzard's power' are technically correct in the sense that other Blizzard games have done that in various ways, but that says nothing about how Diablo III is implemented nor how hard/easy it would be to add the functionality to Diablo III. I've been in that position a fair bit - you look at the requirements, it ought to be easy, you get to the code base and damned if it isn't a PITA due to how the code is actually implemented. Even if they do it, it might be a long time coming, and even if they do it, based on what I know about networking and server implementation, it probably *still* wouldn't be 100% protection.

To go back to your cancer analogy, I'm basically in the position of advising people to do whatever is actually feasible now. 'Get the chemo, don't *just* pray', basically. Making sure your home net is solid is chemo. Making sure your ISP is as solid as you can is chemo. Keeping that backup wand that's *just* slightly worse than your axe is chemo. 'Blizzard add DC protection' is praying.
11/02/2012 06:07 PMPosted by Elzilcho
I'm going to choose stop playing.


Well, I might have changed my mind. I had two mules holding all my old leveling gear plus a few mil gold so figured I'd try leveling on MP 10. So far it's been heaps of fun and I dare say easier than MP0. The 200% bonus extra exp ensures you out level everything before the end of the first act.

Of course this helps too: http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/7229/viligance.png

20k DPS unbuffed at the start of Act 3 Nightmare! :D

Jury is still out as to whether I'll farm afterwards and possibly lose another set of level 60 gear...
Anyway the game, is just a game and i am not planning on playing it for life lol. If you get killed, take a break and come back in few weeks or months. They will be adding the expansion someday, i am sure you will be excited as well.

And if we could re-program life so no one died of cancer would you argue against that as well? Life IS unfair, but Diablo 3 is not life... Well, not for most of us. :)


Of course I wouldn't argue against that.

This is something that is well within Blizzards power to fix and a lot of people think they should. Do you have something against DC protection it self or just how people go about asking for it?


I'm not arguing against DC protection. I'm saying that there's no indication Blizzard will actually do that. I also have background in network administration (I used to write little hack & spoofing programs as part of that) and write code for a living - my current job title is the somewhat (imho) pompous "Principal Software Engineer" - and I think that people saying it's 'well within Blizzard's power' are technically correct in the sense that other Blizzard games have done that in various ways, but that says nothing about how Diablo III is implemented nor how hard/easy it would be to add the functionality to Diablo III. I've been in that position a fair bit - you look at the requirements, it ought to be easy, you get to the code base and damned if it isn't a PITA due to how the code is actually implemented. Even if they do it, it might be a long time coming.

To go back to your cancer analogy, I'm basically in the position of advising people to do whatever is actually feasible now. 'Get the chemo, don't *just* pray', basically. Making sure your home net is solid is chemo. Making sure your ISP is as solid as you can is chemo. Keeping that backup wand that's *just* slightly worse than your axe is chemo. 'Blizzard add DC protection' is praying.


Ok, fair enough. I'm a terminal optimist so I'm still holding out for blizzard to take notice and fix it. :)

I understand it's not as easy as checking a box on their end. I've done my share of modifying existing code, whether it's open source projects or something I've written years ago. The later being much worse!

Until they even acknowledge it though I'm going to assume it's as easy as anything else, like fixing rubber-banding... Oh, wait.
Diablo 2 - Hardcore holds some of my most memorable gaming experiences and I never once felt that forcing disconnected players to remain in game was something Diablo was "missing".

If the game is challenging, compelling and well designed, that should be enough. Forcing players to remain in game with no protection when disconnected should never have been allowed into this game. It turns a challenging environment into a gamble that replaces skill and dedication with "luck".

If it is possible to pause this online only game while in single player, I fail to understand why the game would not pause when we are disconnected. When we log back in within a given time frame, let's say 10 minutes, the game would place us back at our "paused" status. If we were facing sudden death then nothing would have changed, but at least we would have a chance.

Anyone who argues against some form of a solution has simply never lost at this "gamble" yet, or wants others to die and laugh at their misery. Failing to fix this problem offers no compelling gameplay and there has to be some way to mitigate the damage disconnects to without allowing us to simply "game the system" into cheating death.

Unfortunately, the Hardcore community is so small, in part because Hardcore gameplay is so unreliable, that investing money would serve to satisfy only a small portion of the player base. I can only hope I am wrong.
Been lurking lol... I really wanted to make a new HC toon and after a week ive gotten to level 18 lol... just lurking in the main menu. I just can't find the... balls to really invest my time into another toon when all the work and effort can be taken away through no fault of your own.

I'm not saying restore toons or whatever, not even remotely. They are dead, buried or not, and I am smart enough to know that particular task/event would be a massively impossible task with ripples and ramifications of phenomenal frustration for everyone involved. Keep the corpses in the ground.

But this disconnect death thing...

Would anyone care to explain why there IS NO fix already? Is it possible blizzard may not even be able to detect when you have disconnected?... Very highly unlikely. So why is there no fix?

Perhaps blizzard doesn't consider it a problem? Perhaps they think that any fix they implement might create bigger problems? Human nature after all will mean unskilled n00bs, trolls, or just idiots in general would find some way to abuse a system, lag switches, whatever it is idiots do.

Blizz... not dealing with these disconnect deaths IS a problem. Perhaps not in revenue, people who play hardcore will likely pick up any expansion packs that come out regardless. Heck, implementing some sort of fix probably wont even affect 10% of your overall community. Who knows at what level you guys scale your importance... and I sure as hell am only an ant at the very bottom of an ant hill, in a very big world.

My opinion probably doesn't matter, but I believe the problem you have blizz, is in customer satisfaction in a small segment of your customers. Here's hoping you deign to fix the issue somehow.

Im hoping I wont lose any more characters to disconnects, but frankly I really don't see myself investing any real time at all, until a patch dealing with this issue, or expansion pack comes out.

Honor the fallen.
11/09/2012 06:10 PMPosted by Solsora
Is it possible blizzard may not even be able to detect when you have disconnected?... Very highly unlikely.


It's actually highly probable that there are certain conditions under which they cannot tell whether the other side is still there or not, just due to the way networks work (and UDP in particular, which is actually a connectionless protocol). In those cases about the best you can do is assume they've gone if you don't see a packet in a certain timeframe.
11/09/2012 06:28 PMPosted by Anomie
Is it possible blizzard may not even be able to detect when you have disconnected?... Very highly unlikely.


It's actually highly probable that there are certain conditions under which they cannot tell whether the other side is still there or not, just due to the way networks work (and UDP in particular, which is actually a connectionless protocol). In those cases about the best you can do is assume they've gone if you don't see a packet in a certain timeframe.


Yep this is why I asked the question in the first place. you are online when you play so every single move you do sends a packet, every click, every skill used sends a packet of information to blizzard. True there are some times where you may be afk not doing anything at all, but im pretty sure you are sending packets to blizzard even during those times, revealing just that... that you aren't doing anything. In other words, I believe blizzard's systems know very well when you are connected... and when you are not.
11/07/2012 02:30 AMPosted by Susamik
This is just the thing. I killed my lvl 60(5) WD cause I hopped up the MP thought I was Bad and got waller jail froze arcane to death. Ok no problem my fault, but in the process of getting back to 60th lvl WD I have lost TWO toons to Disconnects lvl 41 and 58 and it Sucks to have to die when you don't really deserve to die. Then you feel like well how the hell far will I make this time before a DC gets me and I got to start over. I just Kills the Game Play when it is something Blizzard can fix in any number of ways listed in this Thread.


what ive been waiting to get my monk is a dc. i know its only a matter of time before i run out of luck unfortunately :(

the specific one im talking about is the "your connection has timed out" (error 3007?). where it just boots you out of the game and you go to login. however, if you were not in town you wont be able to login til your character in the game world is not in the game world anymore. i actually had a low level monk die this way. luckily i was just starting over and had only got to right before the chancellor's tomb in normal. out came the big hulk creature and i start killing it. a couple seconds later the game kicked me in the middle of combat.

when i tried to login i got "error switching heroes". then i tried again and when i logged in i found my monk dead. however, when i have been in town and got kicked in this manner it took me out of game immediately and i was able to log right back in with no problem.

^this is on their side and needs fixed.
if my ISP goes down and i die im cool with that, id be pissed but its not blizzards fault in that case. when the game kicks you though regardless of what your doing then there is a serious problem on the blizzard end.
11/07/2012 07:09 AMPosted by Elzilcho
Fair enough, but this thread and many others have been constructive, asking for it to be fixed and offering suggestions. Others might not have been but that doesn't make the whole issue invalid.


Agreed!

11/07/2012 07:43 AMPosted by Elzilcho
I'm still holding out for blizzard to take notice and fix it. :)


As am I and I still say.

We should be protected from death during unpredictable and unpreventable connection loss.
When our only option of play is ONLINE thanks to Blizzards Game Design.
There is a Story Like this one everyday it seems in the Hardcore Forum.

I was playing my Hardcore barbarian, when it was out of combat, (not in a town) but out of combat in a safe area where nothing was attacking me, I got randomly disconnected. I re-login to find that my hardcore character is dead, this feels very unfair to me as a hardcore player. Can anyone help me with this issue?


If something keeps stealing your progress and you don't ever get a fair return for your effort you stop doing it. That's it plain and simple.

Fair Return for playing Hardcore is a well Deserved Heroic Death. Not a Disconnect Death.

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