Software Engineer's ideas to get rid of bots

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11/18/2012 10:35 PMPosted by Heenooh
To whom it may concern,


It doesn't concern them since it's been what 6 months?
The issue of all the people complaining about botting has nothing to do with what their perspective of 'feeble amount of money' is.

Say you have a son/daughter planning to go to a college. Let's say your offspring studied hard, paid attention in class, did everything right. She has a good chance to be the top (whatever percentage). Now, let's say there are few cheaters in the system, who doesn't study or tries to, but they end up getting 4.0 GPAs, scoring perfect on SATs. They go to top notch universities, with full scholarships. Something that your son/daughter deserves.

Would you still not care? Would you still say, well, he/she is still a good student, he/she will still get a decent job and decent pay.

Now, instead of your son/daughter, let's say this is you. Would you care that there are blatant cheaters out there abusing the system?

Let's say instead of college, say it is a job, or a free pizza coupon. Would you care?

What if it was 1 billion gold in D3 game. Would you care?

Oh, that's right. You wouldn't care if you had a decent job that pays more than 24k a year.


Bottomline it's a game play it or quit, I've performed the latter. So to answer your question mark statements; no no one cares.
Just out of curiosity, how would one go about catching a bot without impeding legit players. I too am a software engineer, and If I were to design a bot I would make sure I faked the input on a set resolution size screen and include random delays mimicking my own play behavior and have a scheduler for making sure I didn't run it too much, just enough to look like a crazed teenaged gamer.

I'm sure a lot of extreme players would look like intelligent bots.


Agreed. A bot is a program created by human. A warden is also a program created by human. It's a cat-and-mouse game. Warden exists because bots exist. Police exists because of thievery.
Maybe they do not care but I'll bet the company accountants and marketing people really do care. They will control what gets done like any other company these days. (Engineers are usually pretty proud of their efforts so I bet it pisses them off.) Assign resources to a bot killing team? Does it make good business sense? It actually probably does. Companies need to keep their reputation as clean as possible. They need to listen to the customer and give them what they want. If they don't, they aren't here next year. If enough people hurt blizzard financially they may do something about botting and whatever other cheating is going on...immediately. But who among us is willing to stop using the AH's? Close up your account so the game gets a bad reputation and sales slow or stop? Maybe more importantly, who is willing to turn in the cheaters AND NOT USE ANY TYPE OF CHEATS? (Sorry I yelled). Kill the income for the bot writers and they will move on. Make it dangerous to be a botter because you will likely be reported and PROSCECUTED (blizzard, listen up). It may not stop it completely but if the bot writers have no business and the cheaters are always looking over their shoulders I'll just bet it improves the situation. Might be wrong but I spent 40+ yrs in the business world (retired) working for a very large, technical company that has been very successful by doing what the customer wants. Blizzard could use a 'six sigma' style (GE invented it) about now. Again, just my 2 cents...maybe a quarter's worth this time.
11/19/2012 02:03 PMPosted by Heenooh
I really can't see how a senior software engineer could care about people making a feeble amount of money (compared to the cash you must be getting 24k a year isn't much) unless your back story is a complete lie.


The issue of all the people complaining about botting has nothing to do with what their perspective of 'feeble amount of money' is.

Say you have a son/daughter planning to go to a college. Let's say your offspring studied hard, paid attention in class, did everything right. She has a good chance to be the top (whatever percentage). Now, let's say there are few cheaters in the system, who doesn't study or tries to, but they end up getting 4.0 GPAs, scoring perfect on SATs. They go to top notch universities, with full scholarships. Something that your son/daughter deserves.

Would you still not care? Would you still say, well, he/she is still a good student, he/she will still get a decent job and decent pay.

Now, instead of your son/daughter, let's say this is you. Would you care that there are blatant cheaters out there abusing the system?

Let's say instead of college, say it is a job, or a free pizza coupon. Would you care?

What if it was 1 billion gold in D3 game. Would you care?

Oh, that's right. You wouldn't care if you had a decent job that pays more than 24k a year.


Nope, it's called the free market economy people make money by taking advantage of others. a botter does nothing more than take advantage of those who are looking to jump right to the ultimate gear.

Me, I wouldn't pay anything to get a few kilobytes of randomized variables. If it makes you so mad do realize that blizzard retains the right to read your RAM at anytime and has been this way since 1.0.3, if they wanted to get rid of the botters they would have. but they are making the money for them want to take advantage of them by some activision stock.
To whom it may concern,

I really hope this note gets to the right people working in Blizzard. As a reference, I am a senior software engineer in a fortune 50 company, and I hope the Diablo 3 community & software engineers in blizzard will seriously consider my ideas and implement if necessary.

1. Protect your game data with collision detection. (The bots should not be able to read memory managed by D3 w/o triggering red flags to warden.)

2. Do an analysis of mouse / key movements/keypress-keyup event speeds. If relative movements are too quick, flag it / do a review, add to bad wave list.

3. Do a captsha check for every hour after 8 hours of play time (along with a nice note saying excessive playing is hazardous to your health).

Seriously, there are hundreds of people who are making 2K USD+ using bots. Running it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

If you really care about integrity of the game, use manpower to solve the problem if you have to. This is no longer some 'virtual items', it is a real problem.


They make money from the cut of the sales of the gold or equipment that was farmed. Why would they spend man-hours(money) in an attempt to even further lessen their(Blizzard) monetary intake?
With all the botters and duping they should just end the RMAH.......
I don't think it is a coding or implementation issue and cannot be solve by coding/implementation.
How many blizzard engineer do they have? How many greedy cheater/hacker/bot creator are there?
Don't try to think blizzard engineer are more talent than those want to cheat. They are the same or even worse. It is like antivirus company and virus creator. Do u think one day there won't have virus? Or one day there are virus that cannot be anti-virused?

I would say, it is game design problem. The gaming keep asking people for do repeative things. People get annoyed and look for ways to automate it. To make it worse, they find it profitable to do automation. More and more people want to automate things to get the profit.

Farming is getting to me and old days gaming. Can anyone from blizzard smart enough to think about other things that not repetitive and fun?
I agree with someone above (sorry I forgot the name) saying that, whenever u need money to proceed the game, this game will continue to have cat&mouse chasing forever.

I am not a fortune 50 staff. I am just a normal people who need to work hard during daytime for money and promotion. Why people would like me to work hard during nighttime as well for money and promotion? Gamer sometime get suck in it. But game designer shouldn't.

Diablo 3 is a good game, but really it has so many bad designs that like to create bad customer experience. I do think blizzard need to learn more on customer relationship\experience management. Botting is not the primary reason to drive people away from this game, every good game has bot. Poor customer experience drive people away.

Last but not least, do not think of pattern tracing. People do similar pattern more than those professional bot. You need to really learn more on how those bot work before u say anything. They are fully randomize. Auto it is not a professional bot.
Easy fix stop bots.
When gated into town player must type in on screen code.
Seems easy enough.
dude who cares

personally, I <3 bots.. they drive down the prices of items on the AH every day.. who cares if someone makes $$ of the game? good for them. if your such a genious when it comes to software, right your own bot thats undetectable and make that money yourself..

seriously tho why do you or anyone else for that matter care if people run a bot? it doesn't effect you directly at all.. in fact it probably helps you.. the last item you bought is cheaper now than it was a month ago because of botters..

don't bite the hand that feeds you kiddies
[/quote]The issue of all the people complaining about botting has nothing to do with what their perspective of 'feeble amount of money' is.

Say you have a son/daughter planning to go to a college. Let's say your offspring studied hard, paid attention in class, did everything right. She has a good chance to be the top (whatever percentage). Now, let's say there are few cheaters in the system, who doesn't study or tries to, but they end up getting 4.0 GPAs, scoring perfect on SATs. They go to top notch universities, with full scholarships. Something that your son/daughter deserves.

Would you still not care? Would you still say, well, he/she is still a good student, he/she will still get a decent job and decent pay.

Now, instead of your son/daughter, let's say this is you. Would you care that there are blatant cheaters out there abusing the system?

Let's say instead of college, say it is a job, or a free pizza coupon. Would you care?

What if it was 1 billion gold in D3 game. Would you care?

Oh, that's right. You wouldn't care if you had a decent job that pays more than 24k a year.[/quote]

I'm not sure what happened but the above is a quote from another poster.... this is my response

um terrible example bro.. we are playing a game here, not determining the future of our childrens lives.. what most people fail to realize is they directly benefit from botters when they play pvm.. that last piece of gear you bought on the AH/RMAH was cheaper because there are so many bots running..

its really simple guys, more supply = lower prices. its econ 101.. i wish I had a chart of the cost of legendary gear.. it'd be a chart going from the upper left to the lower right and its just going to continue going down... i dont get what all the fuss is about..

now if they ever come out with a pvp then it's something worth complaining about.. but don't worry we won't have to worry about that until January 2017
@OP
#2 is a good idea that i agree with, they should flag people playing 20h/day
and automated (too fast) mouse movements.
but its still very hard to implement, a check for too fast mouse input...

#3 is TERRIBLE
cabal online had this, many other online games did... IT WAS TERRIBLE

and guess what? BOTTERS STILL BOT THERE

lol its not a solution its only making legal players "pissed off"

captcha can be easily readed by pixels and by an algorithm so it is a terrible idea...
i remember being pissed for missing my captcha while afk...
people who whine here are the ones using bots

/tinfoil

come at me brah
Clearly the answer is for blizz to start, and sustain, multiple hugely popular "bot" services under a different name, and then steal the accounts that try to use their service. After a fake service is known to be bad, drop it and relaunch under a different name. Eventually, going to use a bot will seem like a huge risk to the player base, and people will slowly stop.

Honestly, why aren't the bot writers doing this instead? account theft is so much more fun than giving out a service, even if it turns into some actual cash the items on various accounts could easily do the same.
Just a thought and my 2 cents.

If blizzard cared about people botting they would be more aggressive about fighting it. Yes they do ban waves, to be honest imo this is a revenue generator. Because the bots made more than enough money already to buy multiple accounts again.

And..........

If the average player can google diablo bots and go find the software to implent their own bots. Why couldnt blizzard do the same and come up with a way of combating it? They easily could, but every so often banning 1000's of accounts and having them buy new copies helps keep the $$$ money flowing.

If not they would be running multiple bot programs in their own company and having people come up with ways of catching the people using the programs. Besides the fact the websites will state right on them what updates are available and what they are doing to help you avoid detection. So blizzard could even keep up to date with patches for the botting programs.

$$$$$$ is king, always has been and always will be. Just remeber if you choose to bot you do so at your own risk, you might be in the next ban wave for the company to generate more income. While farming companies could care less about this, you might if you put a substantial amount of time into your toons.

I did not spellcheck and typed this on my ipad so please forgive me grammar police.

And that is my 2 cents, love it, hate it, flame it. Could care less. This is what i believe the truth to be.
If the RMAH didnt exist this would not be a problem
Would be nice if blizzard had the customers game client, do a memory flush every so often (Ex. new area load) and could not be turned off without a temporary account freeze. Blizzard has DMR protection for this game so I shouldn't see why they can do that. Also Blizzard makes money from banning bot users cause they have to go buy another account or key after getting banned.. Would also make sense if they IP banned the bot users too. They also probably don't do it much and in waves so that that everyone don't get alarmed and stop doing it lol. . . . I dunno just my 2 cents. I don't care though I enjoy playing the game. A great time waster :)
no short of good ideas
why cant they give more power to players to report/identify botters and cheaters guide systems have worked in the past for other games
Regardless if you agree with this guy or not he makes a valid point. I play the game legit and they ruin it for me every time I see one I wonder why I play so much when they do nothing and reap rewards for it mainly REAL CASH! are you kidding me these kids running bots probably don't even work for a living they are making enough profit running bots off this game its pathetic.

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