Very confused........

General Discussion
11/20/2012 09:45 PMPosted by ellisD
The most efficient defensive choice would be to attempt a 1 resist = 10 armor in loot.


That is assuming you always get a 10 to 1 tradeoff between armor and resist, but that is not the case. You get 3000 ish armor from just the innate armor value on all your gear pieces, and beyond that, you need + armor stats that averages about +200 armor for a property slot. Resist on the other hand, comes mostly from + all resist stats that averages about +60 all resist for a property slot.

The basic relation of armor vs resist is when you have x : y armor to resist ratio, x armor is equivalent to y resist. So unless, you have 900 or more resist all to your 3000 baseline armor, you are always better off with + all resist on your gear. That said, + resist is more expensive than + armor so you will find a balance according to what is available to you. But don't forgo resist just because your cant get the armor to match the 10 : 1 ratio. 3000 armor 700 all resist is definately better than 4000 armor 400 all resist.
11/21/2012 12:08 PMPosted by Grimiku
I messed up and did my math wrong. I don't want to try and hide my mistakes but I also do not want to mislead people so I am going to edit my original post. Thanks everyone for quickly letting me know.


oooo... multiple blue response in a D3 thread
With 3000 Armor you gain 50% damage reduction on all types of damage.
With 300 All Resistances you gain 50% damage reduction on each type of damage.

The values does not stack, but they are cumulative, ie the don't sum up 100%, but instead are multiplied together using the following formula:
R = Damage reduction through Resistances
A = Damage reduction through Armor
c = Combined damage reduction

c = 1 - ((1 -R) * (1 - A))

1 - ((1 - 0.50) * (1 - 0.50)) = 0.75 combined damage reduction. So you only take 25% damage.

If you increase both Armor and Resistances to 60%, you get:
1 - ((1 - 0.60) * (1 - 0.60)) = 0.84 combined damage reduction. So you only take 16% damage.

I hope this answers your question.

P.S.
This is not my math, only copied from EU forum when i try to learn how exactly work dmg reductions from armor + resists.
Sry for not telling who is author i dont remember, copied it and pasted to notepad :p
The simplest way to figure it out is to remember that what matters is damage taken. So if you're at 57% reduction from armor and 75% from resistance, then you're taking 43% of 25% of the incoming damage, which is .43*.25*100=11%.

The equations for reduction from armor and resistance are both fairly simple:
Damage Reduced by Armor = ARMOR / ( 3150 + ARMOR)
Damage Reduced by Resistance = RESIST / (315 + RESIST)

So you just need to figure out your damage taken from those two equations for the new stuff and compare to the old.

Assuming we can use your WD...
Damage Reduced by Armor = 4660 / ( 3150 + 4660)=59.7%
Damage Reduced by Resistance = 774 / (315 + 774)=71.1%

Total damage taken then is
.403*.289*100=11.6%

So it would be a very slight downgrade in terms of defenses, but not massive. A 200k raw hit would deal 22000 with your current stats and 23200 with the new ones. This is all assuming I can use your WD as the character in question, as he is listed on battle.net.
I hope I can alleviate your confusion. The easiest way to calculate if something is a defensive gain or loss is to compare the total percent damage reduction for both Armor and Resistance. If your Resistance gives you 75% damage reduction and your Armor gives you 60% reduction, then the new gear is only a gain if the total is higher than 135. Examples below!

Current Gear
75% damage reduction from Resistance
+
60% damage reduction from Armor
= 135

Defensive Upgrade Example
70% damage reduction from Resistance
+
66% damage reduction from Armor
= 136 GAIN :)

- OR -

Defensive Downgrade Example
70% damage reduction from Resistance
+
64% damage reduction from Armor
= 134 LOSS :(


That is completely false.

If I have 80% reduction from armor, 40% from resist, I take (100% - 80%) * (100% - 40%) = 12% of incoming damage.

If swapping out one or more items changes that to 65% reduction from armor and 65% from resist, i take (100% - 65%) * (100% - 65%) = 12.25% of incoming damage.

This is a net defense loss, even though 65 + 65 > 80 + 40.

It's sad that the community managers at Blizzard don't even know how their own game works, and can't even do the basic math that any 5th grader (outside US) can.

Everyone makes mistakes and this is why these types of formulas should be posted on blizzs website somewhere, so everyone doesnt have to recalculated every time someone asks.
Also, to the OP and anyone else, it's generally much easier to ask google how to do it instead of the forums. That's what I did to calculate it for you since I didn't remember the equations for DR. You're much more likely to get an answer that doesn't make sense on the forums than on a wiki or just plain google.
!@#$%^-it guys, is it that hard to just google it?
http://rubensayshi.github.com/d3-ehp-calculator/#input-char
11/21/2012 04:59 PMPosted by Dome
is it that hard to just google it?


No, it's not hard to google it. However, the right question from the consumer is: should I really google a calculator whenever I'm searching for a gear? It's 2012. We're playing RPGs on computers for 25 years now. Is it hard for the developer to include a calculator?
1 resist = 10 armor. A very quick rough comparison that's good enough and doesn't require you to minimize the game.

It's a waste of time to bring up the EHP calculator and figure out exactly. If the items are very close in defensive power then look at everything else the items do.

Like if I have an armor with 800 armor and 60 resist all and another one with 600 armor and 80 resist all then I don't care which one gives more EHP. It's such a small difference that I only care about the rest of the stats on those two items.

So let's say one of them gives me more damage. Then I want that one. That takes priority over a marginal EHP difference.

If any two items have a large EHP difference you can tell with the rough comparison of 1 resist = 10 armor.
I hope I can alleviate your confusion. The easiest way to calculate if something is a defensive gain or loss is to compare the total percent damage reduction for both Armor and Resistance. If your Resistance gives you 75% damage reduction and your Armor gives you 60% reduction, then the new gear is only a gain if the total is higher than 135. Examples below!

Current Gear
75% damage reduction from Resistance
+
60% damage reduction from Armor
= 135

Defensive Upgrade Example
70% damage reduction from Resistance
+
66% damage reduction from Armor
= 136 GAIN :)

- OR -

Defensive Downgrade Example
70% damage reduction from Resistance
+
64% damage reduction from Armor
= 134 LOSS :(


That is completely false.

If I have 80% reduction from armor, 40% from resist, I take (100% - 80%) * (100% - 40%) = 12% of incoming damage.

If swapping out one or more items changes that to 65% reduction from armor and 65% from resist, i take (100% - 65%) * (100% - 65%) = 12.25% of incoming damage.

This is a net defense loss, even though 65 + 65 > 80 + 40.

It's sad that the community managers at Blizzard don't even know how their own game works, and can't even do the basic math that any 5th grader (outside US) can.


ouch
I always assumed it worked like this:

Say you have 70% dmg reduction from armor, 75% dmg reduction from res, and 5% damage reduction from melee attacks (and you are being hit for melee)

Say the enemy would hit for 10,000 damage

10,000 * 0.3 * 0.25 * 0.95 = 712.5

The 0.3 is from armor because it is 1 - 0.7
The 0.25 is from all res because it is 1 - 0.75
The 0.95 is from melee dmg reduction because it is 1 - 0.05
(1 - Damage reduction of gear 1) * (1 - armor resistance of gear 1)
compared to
(1 - Damage reduction of gear 2) * (1 - armor resistance of gear 2)

Example, if you have 60% (from resist) resist and 50% (from armor) in gear 1, and 40% (from resist) and 70% (from armor) from gear 2...

(1-0.60) * (1-0.50) compared to (1-0.40) * (1-0.70)
(0.4) * (0.5) compared to (0.6) * (0.3)
0.2 compared to 0.18

You're looking for the smallest number btw, as it's the damage you actually receive.
So in this case, the gear 2 would win, with 0.18.

(Note that this is mostly accurate when you have close to optimal gear. It shouldn't matter much, but just pointing it out. To help you understand this, it's just like hm... How an item giving +10% crit chance will not appear as good against a item giving main stats - stay, strenght - if your crit damage is the base, 50%. But it'd still be a good item because when you get a decent crit damage, you know the +10% crit chance will do amazing ).

So, sometime ( say, if your resist all is abysmal low ), this will not be entirely accurate if at some point you get endgame gear.

But if your resist all is that low, you're probably not close to having an endgame gear anyway so it should not matter all that much, it's gonna be the best for you for a long time.
11/21/2012 12:08 PMPosted by Grimiku
I messed up and did my math wrong. I don't want to try and hide my mistakes but I also do not want to mislead people so I am going to edit my original post. Thanks everyone for quickly letting me know.


Lol here is another genius post from that guy, on how to equip your follower

"the measurement of their success will be proportionate to the quality of gear you can give them."

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