Why You Are Getting Killed By Reflect Damage

General Discussion
First and foremost. There is a bug. That's why reflect damage can hit some players very hard. After dying a few times to certain groups of RD I figured out there was something wrong with how Minons was reflecting damage back, but I didn't know exactly why, but after even more playing I narrowed it down. The problem, which I've noticed, that seems to be the bug, is that RD Minons actually reflect 2 attacks back instead of 1.

Low end DPS guys can have low enough LoH or LS and not lose health, but they should still be getting 2 attacks reflected back. I've tried with a no LoH or LS weapon that dropped me down to 29k DPS and there were 2 attacks reflected back. I'm sure if I had LoH to a certain degree that doesn't even have to be ridiculous, I wouldn't notice a drop in my health.

The next values are what I had based a monk, but might be something to compare with.

Now high end DPS guys around 100k DPS or more(even around 100k, some might not be able to see a health drop), around 600 All Resist,5000 Armor, and around 5.9% Lifesteal or less (I have no idea how much LoH has to be, but at High End DPS LoH seems to be inferior anyways) will still get damage reflected back from Minions and lose health because 2 attacks are being reflected back, but they won't notice reflected damage back and drop in health from a Blue or Yellow Elite because they are only reflecting 1 attack back.

High end DPS guys around 100k DPS or more, with 670(possibly -30 from that, not sure how low it can be) all resist or more 5000+ Armor, more than 6%(Maybe 9% or more) Life Steal or around 6% Life Steal + LoH(Not sure on the amount, I had 1700) will not lose health from the 2 attacks reflected back from Minons. The pricing is ridiculous with high end DPS LS weapons anyways so to get one with LS and LoH is asking a bit much of most players because those cost tons of gold. Also most classes from gear alone can't go above 6% LS and not all classes have passives that give them LS or skills that have LS.

There was never a big problem with Reflect Damage that affected players that had the gear to handle it before. There is now though with that bug though. Reflect Damage does not need to be nerfed, but put back to how it was intended to work. I didn't notice a difference until after Hotfix 10/23/2012 and not after patch 1.05 or before Hotfix 10/23/2012.

Anyways, it's annoying to have to switch out 2 pieces of gear mid-battle just so I can attack Reflect Damage Minons. My regular gear is enough to handle all other types of Reflect Damage Monsters including the Uber Version of The Siegebreaker. I did buy my gear with survivability in mind and not just pure DPS. Most of my gear has either Fire Resist (That is the toal of All Resist + Fire Resist on my equipment for those that don't know....) or All Resist, which with One with Everything puts the number of my Fire Resist across the board on all other types of resist. If switching to a lower DPS Weapon with LS, LoH, or a combination of both and possibly another piece of gear, then the developers should give us a gear switch button/s,if not, then fix the freakin' bug.

Before anyone decides, to troll, try it out and see for yourself. You may or may not see the damage. I think it should be set to how it was intended and not fixed. The game is already so much easier than before patch 1.02. There are also the Hardcore Trollers, seriously, if the bug is fixed it helps you guys too. There is a chance that you could die from a couple hits and not even know why. A bug fix would benefit everyone, not so much the guys that want it to be nerfed, but there was supposed to be a counter for RD, which was a gear check and the way it was supposed to be, it wasn't too bad of a gear check to meet. For the high DPS people that can already handle it, you would be able to go even higher in DPS, which would make you farm more efficiently and not worry about getting gear that costs well over 100 million or even 1
billion gold.

If you agree with any of this at all, make a post,bump, or request sticky and get this thread noticed by the Admins/Community Managers. If you don't, well, you can still post and it'll be noticed if we get enough
Sounds like foil of the tin hat but ill bump it
Haven't tested but this sounds like a bug to me.
11/20/2012 10:07 AMPosted by Gazrok
Sounds like foil of the tin hat but ill bump it


If what I described is even just only 1 little part of why RD is so bad now and they do something because of it, that would be nice.
I actually do notice that unless I time and pop all my cooldowns on my monk (like 114k DPS buffed 5.5% LS) against RD then I can easily die to them. On my WW barb (when I played it) who had about 80k DPS 8.+% LS) buffed I had absolutely zero issues with RD.

RD is very very annoying. I have changed spec to get the 20% cooldown reduction on my Monk just so I don't have to kite RD too long.
RD is very very annoying. I have changed spec to get the 20% cooldown reduction on my Monk just so I don't have to kite RD too long


Yeah, it definitely helps. 7 Sided Strike helps a bit too. I recommend either Sudden Assault(Teleport to the Target to do 2309% Weapon Damage over 7 strikes) or Sustained Assault(Reduces Cooldown by 7 secs).

Sudden assault is useful for the damage, but also the fact that you can teleport away from dangerous things like a whole bunch of Arcane Lasers, and of course for the invulnerability you gain while doing it. Sometimes when it's really tough, I just use it to run without hitting anything so I can hightail it out of there after it's done.

With Sustained Assault you can do it more often since the cooldown time is reduced, but it deals less damage and gives you the temprory invulnerability but does not actually move you way from the danger.
Just read it. Thanks for the analysis. I hope we see a patch soon for this.
I've got 100k dps (buffed) and decent resist (way less than 600 tho) and I haven't had a problem with reflect damage since I got my hp up to 50k from like 25k. Also when I had 25k health I had about 85k dps so it shouldn't have been to much harder but it really was I would one-shot myself with stronger attacks.
Reflect damage and Health Link reflects triple or quadruple the damage returned (depends if the champion pack consists of 3 or 4), so long as all the mobs are 'linking' their health. So that's a large part of the problem right there.
I heard illusionist copies also reflect damage? Is this for real?
I have no doubt there is something wonky with minions and reflect damage. I saw this theory previously and have been looking for it.
11/20/2012 01:11 PMPosted by Advocate
Reflect damage and Health Link reflects triple or quadruple the damage returned (depends if the champion pack consists of 3 or 4), so long as all the mobs are 'linking' their health. So that's a large part of the problem right there.


I'll have to pay attention to them when I run into another group, but I haven't noticed a large amount of health dropping from hitting them like when I hit Minions.

11/20/2012 01:14 PMPosted by ArchonWing
I heard illusionist copies also reflect damage? Is this for real?


I have not noticed that. I don't see a drop in my health because the Blue Packs and the Yellow Leaders don't affect me, but it could be possible. I know I haven't seen Illusionists copy other affixes though.
11/20/2012 10:07 AMPosted by Gazrok
Sounds like foil of the tin hat but ill bump it


Such ignorance lol.

You watch much TV?
Only have +331 All Resist...but it does enough so I barely notice Reflect, always has..
11/20/2012 01:48 PMPosted by FooTWO
Leave reflect damage alone. You idiots control your mouse and keyboard. Just don't click attack so much. Lift your finger off the button here and there and allow yourself to heal. It will be just fine. it is no different then easing off the throttle when going around a curve. But you idiots like to mash the pedal to metal and fly over the cliff.....


Pretty much. I used to do this. Now i just don't die to them. Can't say i've gone above MP6 though.
11/20/2012 01:11 PMPosted by Advocate
Reflect damage and Health Link reflects triple or quadruple the damage returned (depends if the champion pack consists of 3 or 4), so long as all the mobs are 'linking' their health. So that's a large part of the problem right there.


I ran into a group of 3 Health Link RD Elites. I do lose a little health with each strike, but it is nothing compared to the damage I take from hitting Minions. The health I would lose from attacking them wasn't too noticeable.

Update.

Just ran into a group of 4 with Health Link and they reflect back pretty hard if you land a crit on them. Regular hits didn't seem too bad though.
I never really paid attention, since Gloom = reflect lul...but after reading your thread I did some testing, and I am indeed getting hit multiple times for each attack. It looks like the second one is approximately 50% of the first though, no idea why...very weird.

I thought maybe it was specific to monk, or maybe the attack you were using, or perhaps something weird with your gear, but seems to be happening on my DH as well, regardless of attack. Even when my HA pierces the same mob a second time (did all my testing with only a single mob remaining, obviously), it still happens...I get hit FOUR times. Same thing with EA...two "ticks" per ball...4 red numbers above my head.

Hope this issue gets resolved.
I never really paid attention, since Gloom = reflect lul...but after reading your thread I did some testing, and I am indeed getting hit multiple times for each attack. It looks like the second one is approximately 50% of the first though, no idea why...very weird


Much respect. Even though you're not really affected by it out to see. (I'm assuming that up there you meant Gloom = reflect nul) Seems like a lot of people, read a post, not comprehend it, or not read all of it, and then make a post. Oh, and I checked out some of my recorded numbers that I got reflected back from minions and the range I got was from 58% to 72% on the second attack reflected back. It would really really suck if they were the same value.

For example, I actually have the same post, but different title and a monk that only had 7000 DPS said. "to be honest, i never really conserned myself with reflect damage vs my monk because my 1500 resistance and over 6000 armor with 900+ life on hit is more than enough to not care, LOL. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/gooddaytodie-1440/hero/1208036 but i do understand that if you have very little life regenerate on your hits that your going to have a BAD TIME vs these guys. it does not take much to curb the RD but it does pose a problem for any glass cannons hanging around.. i think of it as the monsters payback for going only attack and no defences. :D" He obviously didn't read the section about why low end DPS can get away without taking any damage.
11/20/2012 01:11 PMPosted by Advocate
Reflect damage and Health Link reflects triple or quadruple the damage returned (depends if the champion pack consists of 3 or 4), so long as all the mobs are 'linking' their health. So that's a large part of the problem right there.


^^^ Noticed this since 1.0.5 dropped.. Never have any issue with refelct unless its health link as well.

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