Hall of Godly Demon Hunters Thread

Demon Hunter
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Ah, the old reality argument. Take a look at the current rankings. Is there any gross mismatches? Do you find that someone with a 35k score is actually better than someone with a 50k score?


well your argument here is circular. clearly if person A has a higher score, they are better, so it's impossible for there to be a mismatch...ROFL (hope you are catching my sarcasm)

a lot of these players aren't even gearing for performance. they are gearing for hero score, which arbitrarily will place them high in "halls" as well.

i just think if you are tying to make a hall, you owe it to yourself to base some of your numbers in reality, rather than just what amounts to MAKING STUFF UP.

if you aren't even going to bother to cross check your numbers and functions to see if they line up with some sort of OBJECTIVE MEASUREMENT, then it's not much of a hall at all, just a bunch of bullcrap.


Name someone on the list who you feel is better than someone else with a significantly higher score and give me a reason why.
Well the hall is for the most geared DH of what i understand the hall means here its not about the performance its about the gear tho. So we cant argue with the OP since he made this thread. At least he made effort for the DH hall thread.
I can't really do that without seeing them play and getting a general feel for how they are using their gear.

Things aren't so simple as you make them out to be.

Your hall is a cute idea, but it's just meaningless without some objectivity attached.

I can't be objective without seeing performance.


Get back to me when you find an actual problem with the rankings. Until then, it's a lot of hot air.
I can't really do that without seeing them play and getting a general feel for how they are using their gear.

Things aren't so simple as you make them out to be.

Your hall is a cute idea, but it's just meaningless without some objectivity attached.

I can't be objective without seeing performance.


Frankly speaking, i don't know what your problem is.. this guy here is obviously helping us out by creating a hall and putting much effort into it. I don't see why u need to be so negative and contentious.

And the funny thing is.. this hall is for softcore rankings. If there's a hardcore hall, i'm pretty sure i won't go saying so much about it bcos i don't play there. This is our hall and you could go create a hall for HC if you think u can do better. I'm sure we won't have so much to say on it. Esp. not negatively for sure.
Here's an example of the kind of bullcrap that I see:

Using bat companion for disc regen. This is a way of back-loading what should be a gear problem, and putting a band-aid it by eating up a skill slot.

That skill slot could be used to increase your actual, in-game DPS output. Instead it's fixing a problem with the gear.

Another example would be somebody like me, who uses Vengeance. I have what amounts to infinite hatred. I can hardly spend it all. Thus, "hatred regen" does very little for my character.

My only advice is: you should be measuring actual DPS output and other such things. Just tallying up some gear stats isn't even 1% of the story.


Why don't you go to the hardcore forums and tell them over there, since u guys play at the same server? WE softcore players know how we wish to play and honestly, i don't even know what you are harping about.

To me, the calculations here is very much acceptable and logical. Revarc and Beast is top of the list as it should be. I don't see much of a problem and i'm sure, so do the rest of us softcore players, when we view their gear which looks quite obviously superior.

Bat companion and such should not be part of the equation at all. We are talking PURE STATS here.


Get back to me when you find an actual problem with the rankings. Until then, it's a lot of hot air.


Read above....

Rewarding players for band-aiding their poor itemization by eating up skill slots is a stupid idea.

The whole point of gearing is for performance. If you aren't gearing for performance, you're doing it wrong.


Who on the list has poor itemization and shouldn't be ranked so high? Please give specific names.
@nom maybe just take this ranking as something merely as just a small break from 'grinding', something with entertainment value and nothing more.

I'd say it's hard to base rankings on skills used because people may have different builds on mp0-1 versus mp7+ and they may have different gear (aka pickup radius, etc)

from there you'll get into person A can farm more efficient than person B on mp10 because person A has more ehp than person B but less dps because person A has to kite less and can facetank.

But in mp4 person B destroys everything so much faster than person A because there is less importance of ehp since person B can kill everything before it reaches them.
Looked at the formulas.

Pretty meaningless numbers that are arbitrarily chosen, also seems to have ignored most of my main criticisms in the original thread.

I would say good job, but it would be a lie.


You don't have to say anything. There's nothing i want to hear from you really.

Meaningless or not, this is a softcore hall. We will decide if it's relevant and anyway, i'm pretty sure most of us appreciate the fact that OP helps to create an alternate ranking that differs from diabloprogress to give us an idea where we stand.

Also, i can assure you one thing. Regardless of skills chosen, in the heat of the battle, we will want the gear of revarc and beast the most as they will be able to dish out "the best real dps" (not paper dps) as they do not kite. And will tank the best. The breakpoint of eHP is also acceptable to me as i think it define pretty well. Also, i observe a nice amount of weightage have been allocated to LN4 which is very relevant. All in all, the equation is pretty fair.

To me, the skills chosen is secondary since i'm sure they know what skills help aid them best so it's really a non-issue.
12/06/2012 10:11 AMPosted by Jd007
Just a suggestion, maybe do an alternate score with everybody normalized to 0 paragon level or 100 paragon level, so that score reflect purely of gear quality, which is what most of us care the most about anyway.


+1

i'd vote for normalized plvl0. But having both plvl0 and plvl100 is even nicer :)


Get back to me when you find an actual problem with the rankings. Until then, it's a lot of hot air.


Read above....

Rewarding players for band-aiding their poor itemization by eating up skill slots is a stupid idea.

The whole point of gearing is for performance. If you aren't gearing for performance, you're doing it wrong.


Poor itemization?? U sound like a real snob.

I am 100% positive that the top DHs here know their stuff. They have farmed this game for a long, long time and have tried out each and every skill, while playing regularly in MP10.

See? That's the different btn SC and HC. We can grind the highest level to "test our maximum ceiling" on different skill sets, if they are viable or not.

So, I have a challenge to you right now. If you are such a "know-it-all", i would like you to "itemized perfectly" since you seems to know what that's about and kill Beliai on MP10 with a video on HC.

If you can't do that or can't risk it, you will know what i'm talking about here. WE are on totally different planets.
12/06/2012 10:27 AMPosted by nom
Your hall is a cute idea, but it's just meaningless without some objectivity attached.


Celanian you have done a great job with this hall so keep up the good work and ignore Nom. He is a hardcore player that LOVES to butt his head into topics that have no relevance for him, and typically will try and blast the OP. IGNORE HIM!!! Your doing a fantastic job that obviously people are happy with by the amount of people getting asked to be graded.
Bow user~

Hall Score: 14,788.59

DPS Score: 178.61
EHP Score: 39.37
Sustain Score: 1.11
Move Score: 1.24
Paragon Score: 1.33
Misc Score: 1.15

Score kinda low though
http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/pwnsauce-1147/Striker/17982695
Last I heard, variables ARE numbers. You are being very imprecise with your terminology.

As you confirmed in your last post, you want everything to be based on xp/elite kills/loot per hour. If that is the case, then no Hall will ever satisfy you.


lol

well there has to be some basis in REALITY here. if you aren't willing to take reality into account, your "hall" will never be worth much.

basically yes, you need to do better than "well, I asked this one guy, who has really good gear, where to make the cut-offs, and he said to do this, so that's what I did"

Please. LOL. pretty sad.

edit: i mean...you're lumping max discipline, discipline regen, and hatred regen together...thats already completely beyond silly...


U want reality, i will give you reality.

To put it harshly, you are playing for keeps. Ur focus is on near-maximum survival as you can't afford to do it any other way.

That "guy" you mentioned, regularly plays in the toughest environment D3 can put out which is MP10 and survives well in it. (and in the process, pulling more than 1 set of elites to tank them up, i'm pretty sure you have no idea how this kind of combat plays out)

To put it simply, your "idea" of performance is so much different from us in SC that i really have no idea why u need to comment so much on it.

So, I rather much prefer the opinion of this "guy" that what u have to say.
I'm requesting a calculation for my DH.
Honestly, any formula that is created is going to be wrong on some level, because not everyone does the same thing and there are lots of potential things to do.

If you are farming MP0, then any amount of health above 600k or so is pretty much irrelevant, and you have huge diminishing returns on dps compared to MP10 (because the time spent killing a mob compared to the time spent traveling is so different. In other words, if it takes you 30 seconds to get to an elite, and it takes you 6 seconds to kill an elite instead of 3 (because you've doubled your dps), that's much less relevant than in MP 10 where it may take you 30 seconds to get to an elite, but the difference is between killing an elite in 45 seconds versus 90 seconds). +disc regen is much more highly valued (because your rate limiting step is movement), as is move speed.

In MP10, eHP and DPS scale with little to no diminishing returns, move speed matters a lot less, etc etc.

Trying to find a single number that accurately represents the most efficient gear for both scenarios is going to be impossible.

However, that doesn't mean that using a formula isn't useful. You just need to know the limitations of what you can extrapolate from the number produced, instead of thinking that the number is the end-all-be-all of being a DH.

For example, the formula doesn't take into account MF, so anyone running around primarily item farming with max MF is going to be penalized. Of course a lot of people believe MF is useless, so that's mostly a debate for another thread, but I use MF as an example of the limitation of the formula.

I think the formula here more or less takes into account a wide spectrum of activities a DH might perform, and as such, is a reasonable indicator (better than just hero score at least) of gear quality across a general spectrum of activities.

That doesn't mean I think the formula is perfect, though, and the best way to improve it would be to come up with 2 stat sets that you (general you, not anyone in specific) believe is incorrect in relationship to another and post it for discussion.

Just my 2cp.
Hall Score: 39,904.00

DPS Score: 303.52
EHP Score: 59.44
Sustain Score: 1.11
Move Score: 1.24
Paragon Score: 1.50
Misc Score: 1.08

Xbow user

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