CM 2.75 vs 3.0 dps question

Wizard
Serious question and to let you know I'm not trying to troll to show off my dps. I'm no better then any of you. :)

Anyway a light came on in my head today that I never thought of before. When I have a storm crow on I don't need an apoc chant force. Which means......... I spent 6 million on a non apoc force for a 25k dps increase! Don't know why I never thought of that before. 6million for 25k pretty good right?

Sorry, here's the question. What would you guys do? Over 3 IAS for 150k dps or over 2.75 IAS for 178k dps? I'm thinking the slower build with the higher dps is way better right? Maybe only go for the 3ias option vs Ubers? If need be I can get to 3.4 IAS but then I'm around 90k dps. I don't think I need to do that right?

Thoughts?

Thank you all!
9% more ticks != 18.6% more dmg, go for the dmg.
12/04/2012 07:39 PMPosted by RulerEric
9% more ticks != 18.6% more dmg, go for the dmg.


So your saying the 9% more ticks on the faster build puts out more damage then my 178k build? Am I understanding you right?
IMO go with the higher char sheet dps build of the two. There's not a lot of difference between the two breakpoints in terms of build performance so you'll farm faster with the higher char sheet dps. For Ubers use whichever you prefer. Some say 2.73 is enough to freeze lock SB/K but some need 3.0. It probably depends some on your latency.

EDIT: and no, 9% more tics won't give more dps than 18% more raw dps.
If you don't have sufficient APoC however you cannot meet the max DPS of the spec. At only 20 APoC I feel low on AP at 2.73 aps at anything but the most extreme crit chances (60+).

Is your crit chance equal in both options?

Also 3.01 will result in approx 20% higher LoH return as well. (11% more crits per twister and more twisters, faster)
go touch a frenzy shrine that'll tell ya all you need to know.

Personally I feel even 3 is a waste in so far as gold/mitagtion to get there let alone 3.4. 2.73 keep everything where they belong, procing my twisters, so what if they hit me 2.73 allows mitagation so I dont care.

3 is better but not innas or lacuni better. If I go to 3 it'll be the right way with mempo to increase EHP even more, more tank more speed.
I have just done a similar APS downgrade by changing my BT amu to a CC,CD, LoH, Vit one basically changing 9 APS for 80 CD (and some int)

Dps multiplier is untouched by lowering the APS from 3.01 to 2.73 so you will see a raw increase in real dps, but while farming you will feel a bit more squishy since you loose some LoH and AP for twister
Unless you can maintain your mitigation and DPS shifting from 2.73 to 3, I never think it's a good choice to sacrifice that much DPS to go to 3. The test with Living Lightning recently showed me that I can tank without DS and freeze for a while, so I completely believe that 3.00 is unnecessary in term of survivability if you have enough defense at 2.73, you take less damage meaning you need less LoH. I saw only a few people reaching 3.00 with high mitigation, and their gear cost billions.

At 2.73 you have more real DPS because of CD, and yeah, real, not fake sheet DPS.
In terms of actual in-game tested dps done at both breakpoints I get nearly identical results at both speeds with the same tooltip dmg.

Go for the damage.
I am by no means a pro with a wiz but I would like to share my experience with you. My skills are still showing archon but I use cm/sns. When I was running with:

4500 armor
750 AR
980 LOH
50% CC
2.73 APS
18 APoC
37k hp

I hard a hard time staying alive on mp 10 when using diamond shards for extra dps. Once I switched to crystal shell, it was better but I still had to teleport back and forth across arcane lasers and pools of desecrator and so on... Even once I got my CC up to 60%, it was still dicey at times. I could get a good stutter freeze going on a single target but there was still time to cast an affix spell which made killing act bosses, ubers, last elite in a pack interesting.

I have since changed a bit of gear around and now I have:

4600 armor
784 AR
58.5% CC
3.07 APS
559 LOH
31k HP
17 APoC

I am now able to use diamond shards in mp 10 without dying. Elite packs are on total lock down during fights. The only affix spells then cast are at the start of the fight. The biggest difference I notice is on act bosses and ubers. I fought siegebreaker on mp 10 and he was unable to pick me up or even hit me. Once the twisters started up my arcane power was always full and cooldowns were resetting as fast as I hit the buttons. Uber kulle and siege are no longer a threat. I teleport between them drop twisters, freeze and they spend the entire fight unable to cast a single spell. They still stutter but it is so minimal that they cannot do anything. I had uber ghom locked completely until he hit 75% health. Now when I fight him, the last half of the fight usually has no poison cloud since he is unable to recast that spell.

My point is, if you can manage it maybe give 3.01 a try and fighting ghom or one of the act bosses on a high mp. Time how long it takes to kill compared to 2.73 and see how well you can keep him locked down. I think you can get a way with less damage mitigation if you can get your freeze working better. BTW, the next piece of gear that I am going to drop is that craptacular BT amulet. For a few hundred million(or so) I can certainly do better.
^yes ! That's very similar to my point lol. With 3.01 you need less mitigation, but if you somehow can achive high mitigation at 2.73, you can increase your DPS by a large margin at 2.73 without using Trifecta. Granted going straight to 3.01 is less costly than adding huge mitigation at 2.73 tbh. Reaching 2.73 with enough mitigation is already hard enough.
It is not cheap. I started with about 400m gold and I sold my barbs gear for another 1.9 billion. I have since spent 3/4 of that to get to this point and I still would like to have another 1k armor, a bit more AR and more dps.
Hey novice check AH two awesome int ar CD nats rings are up. one with 50 CD.
What funny is i get even more mitigation going to 3 with mempo

AR 838 to like 920
Armor 5620 to 5550

Now all i need is a billion for mempo and apoc source. sigh...
Quite simply the breakpoints do 2 things for me.

1: Supply enough LOH to keep me alive.
2: Freeze the mobs enough to stop me dying.

If you can pass the above 2 points..... go for DPS over IAS. Note: I seem to do more dps at lower breakpoints eg: 2.5 compared to 3.0 when sheet dps = the same.,
12/05/2012 05:59 AMPosted by novice
Reaching 2.73 with enough mitigation is already hard enough.


I'm a prime example of reaching 2.73 without enough mitigation. I swapped, sold, bought and regeared numerous times to where I am now. I decided that at a certain point, I wanted to get to 2.73 and just increase cc as much as I can so here I am. I have tried in the past playing at 3.01 aps but I had to sacrifice some cc and mitigation and the result was that it didn't feel right. So instead I gained more LOH (1650) and APoc (30) to offset low mitigation and see what happens. Now, mp7 is a piece of cake with SNS, mp8 is easy with SNS, however, I had to sacrifice either shard or shock for MP9 and replace with either crystal shell or pinpoint.

I am o.k. with farming MP10 and totally fine in Uber 10 but definitely can't farm MP10 like I would in MP5. and without "real" mitigation, I do struggle with 5+ affix elites in MP 8-10.
12/05/2012 06:08 AMPosted by Aimless
Hey novice check AH two awesome int ar CD nats rings are up. one with 50 CD.


Holy... 74str/40Intel/73AR/9IAS/50CD, what kind of broken Ring is this :O

bad news is 18h left and bid is already 127m lol, guess it will be somewhere around 500m in the end.
Quite simply the breakpoints do 2 things for me.

1: Supply enough LOH to keep me alive.
2: Freeze the mobs enough to stop me dying.

If you can pass the above 2 points..... go for DPS over IAS. Note: I seem to do more dps at lower breakpoints eg: 2.5 compared to 3.0 when sheet dps = the same.,


Our multiplier scales better with crit damage than it does with IAS and CC it seems to me. It seems to be the only real variable that I see come up repeatedly when I compare my effective dmg multiplier with people who have the same sheet dps as me, but with like %10 less CC and a lower breakpoint.
2.74 is great, with enough ehp and high dps

3.01 is even better, with higher ehp and higher dps - This is because dropping Stormcrow and getting an APOC Chant/Mempo open up so many more choices to you. LOH is easy to get from Pants/Ammy, get trifecta gloves/rings.

More twisters, more mobs, more spam.
12/05/2012 05:59 AMPosted by novice
^yes ! That's very similar to my point lol. With 3.01 you need less mitigation, but if you somehow can achive high mitigation at 2.73, you can increase your DPS by a large margin at 2.73 without using Trifecta. Granted going straight to 3.01 is less costly than adding huge mitigation at 2.73 tbh. Reaching 2.73 with enough mitigation is already hard enough.


i love this forum. i feel like the wiz forum is the only true area where help is given out at any time.

novice i retested everyting from last night quickly on mp10, rocking sns, you were absolutely correct. thank you very much.. the difference is truly night and day whenit comes to freeze locking.

love you guys :D

aimless and novice i'd like you to add me! lameboi#1117

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