The Argument.. and why it doesn't fly

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12/07/2012 06:37 AMPosted by DamianBlack
Godwin's Law invoked! Thread over. ;)


Nobody said the N word

Edit: Or the H word.
you want to know why they didnt? very simple. because if you give everything upfront, people will love it for a while, then lose interest and get greedy and want more. then the devs would be like "uhhh thats all we got" and the players would all leave asap. but if they slowly release all of the key features that they and everyone want, it will ensure a long lasting game, giving them more time to work on the final product, additional features, an expansion, etc. quite a smart campaign in my opinion. its just too bad people cant enjoy the game as it is. they would rather complain.
12/07/2012 02:07 PMPosted by Inevitable
you want to know why they didnt? very simple. because if you give everything upfront, people will love it for a while, then lose interest and get greedy and want more. then the devs would be like "uhhh thats all we got" and the players would all leave asap. but if they slowly release all of the key features that they and everyone want, it will ensure a long lasting game, giving them more time to work on the final product, additional features, an expansion, etc. quite a smart campaign in my opinion. its just too bad people cant enjoy the game as it is. they would rather complain.


I half agree with this. No point in taking all their ideas and dumping them into the game at the start.. they'd make more money releasing them slowly.... however...

They should have at minimum (IMO) put most of what D2 already had in place (in the first place), and just add their creative ideas in afterwords.
12/07/2012 07:37 AMPosted by Revanwood
First of all there is no feature in a game that is so important that it cannot be removed or the game will instantly crash and burn. You start off your post as talking about D2 not having all of the goodies that it had until LOD. But yet you would be wanting the devs to start from LOD in the comment that I quoted, fascinating.


I don't really understand your argument. You're saying that D3 shouldn't have LoD as a starting point because D2 didn't start from LoD? So because the devs improved on D2 with LoD the new devs shouldn't improve upon LoD with D3?

That being said, I completely agree with your post, OP. What I find particularly interesting about the argument is how some people make D2 sound worse and worse in order to make D3's problems not seem as bad. It's rather funny that some people make D2 at release as some sort of abomination that was unplayable until LoD came out.

To anyone who wants to defend D3, do so by citing the game's own virtues and not be attacking D2. You're not making D3 sound like a good game when you do, at best your arguing that people shouldn't complain about D3 because it might get better.


First of all there is no feature that could be considered core to the game where if if was changed or remove the game would not be able to be named what it is. Like those features belong only to that game. Okay then you would say that any fantasy game that has stat/skill points. Then you would call that game a Diablo game. So TL2 and Path of Exile could not have those features because they belong to Diablo games.

What makes a game worthy to carry any name is the theme. If it fits the theme and world that the game is set in then it can carry the title. All Diablo games are about thwarting Diablo's plans. Instead of being about having feature x or y.

Next some features in D2:LOD if they wanted to port them over to the new design would take a lot of work to get them right. Sure I can understand why they are liked. But it is not as easy as you think to port them over.

I know that I am using an extreme example, but you will get the point. Take Blizz's new project Titan. Let's say it is set in a fantasy world similar to WoW. Then it should have all of the same content that is in WoW at the moment it releases. I mean after all WoW is a Blizz game. They have the codes, so it should be easy to duplicate all of the good features in WoW. Features that took eight years of work and polish to develop.

Now do you get the point. You had a new game, even though it is a sequel that had a new game engine. Some things are not that easy to port over like you think they are. Also the devs might be thinking about adding in other things in an expansion that would be an improvement on those features.
It's amazing that players still can't get over the fact that this is a new game.

It's not a continuation of D2/LOD, and therefore should be looked upon as a different game.

If you don't like it, move on. Don't expect Blizzard to change this game around and go back in history to make it a D2 clone.

Personnally, I still play D2/LOD now and then - I have two different mods of that game installed - but overall, I like D3 very much and don't wish for any D2/LOD stuff to be imported into this game.

As long as Blizzard keeps putting out patches, this game will get even better over time.


This would be a good argument if t wasn't called Diablo 3. D2 took the core elements of D1 and built upon them to move the series forward. LoD took the groundwork of D2 and continued to build upon it to advance the game.

D3 on the other hand completely scrapped everything done before it and proceeded to essentially re-invent the wheel. The truly ironic part is that essentially all the improvements made to D3 have consisted of re-incorporating elements of D2 (paragon levels such that the entirety of endgame isn't an item grind being a big one).

Don't want the game to build on the diablo series? That's fine, but they should've started fresh and not milk the franchise name for more money.


I will ask you this then if D3, should've started from D2:LOD. Then why didn't D2 start from D1 with the Hellfire expansion. I mean it was an authorized expansion. It no doubt had some good features. So why wasn't runes in D2 vanilla, oils that would affect the stats of gear. Heck they could've even added in Jewels and not even bother to release an expansion.
You do not do a " like it or go away " in business. Especially to the core buyers. Buyers buy due to past experiences with the products and the reviews they get from others, especially their friends and close one. If not for the existence of Diablo II, no one would be buying Diablo III .


So then you are saying that everyone that bought D3, didn't know anything at all about D3 and what it would be like playing. They had zero knowledge of the direction of the game. Everyone and yes I mean everyone did not even bother to attend Blizzcons. Those that did only went for WoW and no one was at the D3 booths. If they were then they just were not listening. Maybe they had their hands in their ears and singing lah, lah, lah, lah not listening.

Sorry I do not believe that 10 million people were totally ignorant and expect D3 to be just a hyped up version of D2:LOD with prettier graphics and a different story.
Thank you for this post. I am so sick of people feeding me that "D2 wasn't perfect until Xpac" garbage as an excuse for the state D3 is in.

All they had to do was build ontop of what was an already superb foundation. Instead they decided to destroy it and try making it their own. Why? It's a question for the ages.

This game gets a big fat ***ing F -


If D2 vanilla was so perfect then why keep asking for things that were only added in the expansion?
Great post OP.
fyi imo, i loved d2 from the beginning. lod improved it, but if they left it as it was, id still be happy. i have friends that still play original d2 and dont even want to do lod. comparing that to the crap we have right now is just trying to get blues brownie points. d3 was a let down at launch, we were jipped out of promised things, and everything they implement going forward is either confusing, or sounds good for awhile until you have like for example 50 hellfire rings. as some of my online buddies do. keep believing we re at the same point as d2 was at 6 months though lol. you re lying to yourself.
D2 doesnt have enough meat on its bones to be a 2012 contender anymore should it be released now.

Todays games need more content, more crafting, more itemization custimations, more social, more intricacies.
So then you are saying that everyone that bought D3, didn't know anything at all about D3 and what it would be like playing. They had zero knowledge of the direction of the game. Everyone and yes I mean everyone did not even bother to attend Blizzcons. Those that did only went for WoW and no one was at the D3 booths. If they were then they just were not listening. Maybe they had their hands in their ears and singing lah, lah, lah, lah not listening.

Sorry I do not believe that 10 million people were totally ignorant and expect D3 to be just a hyped up version of D2:LOD with prettier graphics and a different story.


Your reading and understanding is still pretty misguided by yourself.

Do read again.

Perhaps you would understand better.
12/08/2012 07:03 PMPosted by VinnyI82
It's not a continuation of D2/LOD, and therefore should be looked upon as a different game.


Therefore, with your argument. This game should NOT have the Diablo title. Should NOT have been hyped as a Diablo game, and should NOT have rode the coattails of the Diablo franchise.
Thank you for admitting that this game ISN'T Diablo in any way.


Okay then why wasn't D2 a continuation of Diablo with the Hellfire expansion? It was an authorized expansion after all. It wouldn't be that hard for Blizz North to figure out how to put all of the features of that expansion into Diablo 2. According to your logic they had a base to work from. Which by that last line D2 would not be able to be called a Diablo game if it did not have everything that Diablo + Hellfire expansion.

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