Proc / Toad / Acid Cloud Docs!

Witch Doctor
12/13/2012 06:39 PMPosted by Jimbob
Again we didn't say they don't "stack" We are saying those that have a word that pops up associated with it(IE freeze/stun/immobilize/Fear)Can't proc in the same action. (IE Mob can't be frozen + bound in the same cast, but can be knock back and stunned in the same cast).


this is wrong
This is important, If jim is right then you only want the bare essential CCs if Chuck is right then the more the merrier. Except for the 1.05 patch that increases a mons resistance to CC the more you CC him.
imo the hard cc's are the only ones worth using an affix slot for either way.
Why chuck, if they all dont interfere with each other?
because soft cc is less effective than hard cc. the target does not loose full control with soft cc. and both take up a full afix slot on gear which could be 80 all res or 200 stats or something better.

crippling vs annoying
because soft cc is less effective than hard cc. the target does not loose full control with soft cc. and both take up a full afix slot on gear which could be 80 all res or 200 stats or something better.

crippling vs annoying


And Fear/Knockback too (knockback)

Blind/Slow/Chill are pretty much the same, and blind will get cancelled if attack.
If you find a trieffecta ammy wiithout stats but 4 percent blind. Wouldn't you wish that it rolls a main stats? I admit though, i rather have it then having thorns/bleed/pickup/gold find/ele.resist/health globe(wow, fantastic amount of useless affixes)
I'm glad this thread has developed to be good and informative without the flame wars.

I don't have the link to the patch 1.05 notes, but my understanding is that 2 or more CC can proc at the same instant, but we only see one effect on screen. The CC rule is such that if we disable for 3 secs, the mob's resistance and eventual immunity grows. Let's say Stun for 3 secs, but on the 3rd second, Freeze kicks in for 3 secs. That makes the total consecutive disable less than 5 secs due to the mob already having built up some % of resistance, and 1 sec of stun/freeze overlap. If we continuously proc the CC, the timer for the subsequent disabling effect will get shorter and shorter, until the mob becomes IMMUNE at the next proc. Then the immunity and resistance will wear off, for the time duration that it was disabled.

So if I understand correctly, it doesn't matter whether we stack 10% freeze only, or 5% stun + 5% freeze. The mob resistance and immunity is based on the time duration of the disabling effect. On this note, the higher the % proc the better, but be VERY selective about the type of proc you want, because certain effects are just "trash" and add on to the mob's resistance and immunity timing.

For example, the best procs are Freeze and Stun, they totally disable the mob. Partial disables are Blind, Immobilize and Fear. Immobilize prevents them from moving, but they can still use range attacks or cast spells. Blind allows them to move, but prevents them from attacking or casting spells (yes, Blind goblins can escape through their portals, while Freeze/Stun/Immobilize prevents them from escaping). Fear forces them to move away, and cannot attack or cast spells. IMO the Chill and Slow are the totally useless procs and do more harm than good.

If my total proc chance is high, I will stick with Freeze and Stun only. But if I need more slots to reach my target proc %, then I will choose Blind, then Fear in that order of priority. There is no benchmark to determine how much % proc we need. It really depends on the proc factor of the skills we use, and the individual play style.

At the moment (patch 1.06a), RoT and AC produce very good proc results due to multiple ticks per cast (I've not tested on spirit barrage or haunt). Bears and SH have terrible proc rate (if any at all).

Blind allows them to move, but prevents them from attacking or casting spells (yes, Blind goblins can escape through their portals, while Freeze/Stun/Immobilize prevents them from escaping). Fear forces them to move away, and cannot attack or cast spells. IMO the Chill and Slow are the totally useless procs and do more harm than good.


Thanks for the useful info, however, I'll like to point out that tg seems to be immune to my stuns, I can freeze it occasionally, but never seems to see it get stunned.

Chill/Slow usually comes from weapon, which we'll not get if they appears in it. While shoulder and pants, we'll get as much vitality for our pets or LoH from blackthrone.

Fears are usually from head or your horrify spells. I'd like to change my words from the earlier post, since fear chases the enemy away, you get to focus your cc better. It's annoying if it is the last enemy though.

Bear have .5 proc, but since the appearance of bears is random, it makes it even harder to aim for CC.

For a more relax gaming experience, use skorn for the 90+% bleed on lower mp and use a fast dagger for more casts of Rain of Toad.
I can attest that if you are interested in proc effects faster cast times are important. I have a very good 1.2 attk mace that is just too slow for me vs my 1.4 dagger, the diff in cc and loh procs are very noticeable, unfortunatly so is the mana drain.

I have tried both imobilise and chill extensively an i presonally pref chill (after stun, freeze and blind of course). If you can't get a blind ammy im leaning towards chill.
lol sometimes I think im the only one on these forums that actually tests stuff out.

PaulNG you have many errors in your understanding of cc procs.

-mobs can never become immune to cc procs. max cc resist a mob can get is set to the base resist they had before the cc patch.

-soft cc does not increase a mobs cc resist

-blind is as effective as stun or freeze. attacking a blinded mob does not cause blind to end. blind mobs cannot move. they just stubble around a very tiny bit.

-feared mobs dont move if u stack other hard cc

come on people do some testing before you spread missinformation.
I use toad/cloud, really fun especially when you have like 1.2k LoH + Life steal and over 1k+ life regen per second. I also have like 1.99 aspd, so I hardly ever die. I would love to upgrade my items, but damnn they next upgrades I need to do are like well over 10m+ easily for better items.
lol sometimes I think im the only one on these forums that actually tests stuff out.

PaulNG you have many errors in your understanding of cc procs.

-mobs can never become immune to cc procs. max cc resist a mob can get is set to the base resist they had before the cc patch.

-soft cc does not increase a mobs cc resist

-blind is as effective as stun or freeze. attacking a blinded mob does not cause blind to end. blind mobs cannot move. they just stubble around a very tiny bit.

-feared mobs dont move if u stack other hard cc

come on people do some testing before you spread missinformation.


That's why we are lucky to have you around in the WD community :)
However, some things I did not write in my post, so don't misquote me if all those sentences were directed at me. Hopefully your point format is to make an easy read for all readers as a summary.

I'm often wrong, and happy to admit it. If I'm right all the time, I won't have any friends :D
lol sometimes I think im the only one on these forums that actually tests stuff out.


You're not alone. Check out my profile, and you'll know I tests ALLOT.

Maybe you get to know something that from the tests that I'm not testing for.

Low mp with skorn, the atk is good enough, actually the attack speed doesn't matter in this case. Your dogs will be doing the work, and you just horrify, angry chick and spirit walk the whole time.
I tried this build and I think I missed a bunch of stuff after looking at some of the builds...
Black jack what MP and you solo?
Finally!! a thread where I can relate to!! uh.. Hi guys..

My thoughts on discussion:
Well we really just need a few CCs to begin with, else, sacrifice too much. Whatever CC that works on act bosses is just what we need. Now who cares if they eventually gets immune or not? The first few procs is usually the only thing we need and RoT would snowball hard by then.

now I have a question.. I remember from long before that you can only stack up to a certain amount of RoT.. Is that still/is true?
Plexor,

I can farm mp7in act 3-4 solo, my ehp is low for much beyond that ( I get one shoted too often with no chance to LOH back up). For each lower act I can generally do one mp higher so mp9 act1. I am not much interested in helfire rings (like my soj too much) so I can't really speak about ubers.

s2log

You can stack as many toads as you can in 2 seconds. The higher your attack rate the more you can stack...
Mind looking at my build to see what I should get next?
I have a build guide up. Let me know what you think of it.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7414952546?page=1#9

Plexor

Your build is very unsual so i am not sure how to advise.
Should consider a higher damage mojo , witching hour with chance to freeze. If you are going to run GI then you need to add in pick up radius, if not and you continue to use spiders then consider using vision quest instead. I would try dropping jungle fortitude for gruesome feast if you are going to get some PuR.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum