Criticising Diablo 3

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01/08/2013 08:11 PMPosted by TeraFlare
I think Having hardcore mode/Monster Power/Paragon is likely the best . Maybe they will figure out something else, but for now I don't see how that's not enough. D2 even in LOD never even had those things afaik ?


I thought you were the one who just said you spent plenty of time on diablo 2? monster power was adopted from diablo 2. diablo 2 had/has the same system, and it has been in place for many years... join any game, type /players8 and you will see.

Diablo 2 "invented" hardcore and introduced this first in their series (blizzard north's series) in diablo2 in 2000.

Diablo 2 has a paragon system in place, without artificially making it look like it is a "special" feature. lvl 99, harder to reach than paragon 100.

sorry bro, afaik. i know my d2 better than you ;)


Why are you apologizing ? My friend and I did all our 100+ hours online in coop, and we never chatted, even for a few seconds about any monster power. My friend was a veteran of D2, and she never even mentioned it , that I recall.

I said I played 100+ hrs, and we did, together, but I never said where those hours were. We spent alot of time just getting past the acts, but through that, tons more hours were spent just farming to 'get' to a > b. By the time we were all done, neither had much desire to go further. I wasn't into the extra difficulty I felt nightmare put forward , and I think at the time she was tired of it too, having played the game for years. She might have had a lvl 99 or two, but we stopped right after dealing with Diablo. We also had several other games to play,and I felt so what, game is beat; other games to deal with.

Looking back, I think D2 beefed up the difficulty far too quickly, because I lost interest at that point. D3 does it gradually,and then comes HELL mode. Far better.

All you hardcore players never cheated once in d3 to get your gear ? I find it hard to believe that never occured, past a certain point. Without the gear, you are doomed and everyone knows it, and the same was true for D2.

cu
caJAI
OP,
Only our friends list can speak w/ out any bias.
My friends list in this Diablo game died only months after it launched.
-
I am told that this is the current plight of most Diablo junkies.
-
JW and his rts team at blizz south failed to keep my friends engaged, it is what it is.
For the gamers I play w/, this Diablo lacks depth and the end result is u feel like a clone, grinding to find something, anything that can grant you an identity.
-
I STILL want this game to succeed for what it's worth.
gl hf


Lol my friends list are all IRL, so i have no actual in-game net friends, much like how I played D2 and ... pretty much most other games, and same thing I do want it to succeed also. My friends' main complaints are no choice in the game, or not very much.


BUt it was harder at one time, then people complained, and then they eased UP on it. Im not sure how you get from there, to harder again , without making it unplayable for someone else. I think Having hardcore mode/Monster Power/Paragon is likely the best . Maybe they will figure out something else, but for now I don't see how that's not enough. D2 even in LOD never even had those things afaik ?

cu
caJAI


I actually enjoyed D3 at the start... My barb was my first char... Everyone was jumping ship to make a ranged char to do act 4.. Nah not me I kept plugging at my barb.. Was great and enjoyed it..

however shortly after him making it to act 4 they nerfed the crap out of the game.. and it hasn't been the same since... MP was a let down as well..

oh well..


Sorry to hear that. I hope things get better so you enjoy it more

cu ;)
caJAI
well now im having a hard time getting excited for the patch. she is defending things that are so broken about this game that I was really hoping would get fixed about it.

runes, skills, infernal machine, paragon system, etc. It's just so sad that the potential is RIGHT THERE.

nothing they have added have fixed what was needed. the infernal machine just added a more ridiculous grind for characters not using the AH, and cant do high mp levels.

there are only 1 or 2 viable runes for playing. I could say farming because 99% of people playing this im sure play it to farm. MOST of the time.

skills are fun, but need to make some more alluring.

paragon isn't doing anything for people wanting to not switch out gear for MF. I still don't see how they think its working when in order to really farm well you have to be in mp0.

so what in the world are we excited about 1.7 for? she is sitting here defending everything we wished fixed, as if it won't be changing.....

/weep
01/08/2013 08:20 PMPosted by cajunctionAI
All you hardcore players never cheated once in d3 to get your gear ? I find it hard to believe that never occured, past a certain point. Without the gear, you are doomed and everyone knows it, and the same was true for D2.


Never Rmah here... Can provide a screenshot if you don't believe me..
wouldn't touch 3rd party.. Don't like botting or duping but will admit I go to their forums and submit email to bliz about activity..

Gold AH I never had a problem with... Even the people crying about flipping..
01/08/2013 08:20 PMPosted by cajunctionAI
All you hardcore players never cheated once in d3 to get your gear ? I find it hard to believe that never occured, past a certain point. Without the gear, you are doomed and everyone knows it, and the same was true for D2.


I would consider myself a hardcore gamer, for certain games, diablo 3 not being one of them, even though i've clocked around 400-500 hours. what do you mean by cheat? and how is this done.

Edit: if youre making reference to the RMAH i have not touched it to BUY items, but have had the pleasure in selling multiple ones for real currency :). I've unfortunately had to use the AH, to progress in the game (upgrades are near impossible to find on your own), and trust me when i say, i did feel forced to use it. I would much prefer if there was a nice chat/trade/game creation method. Blizzard did not cater to this method in diablo 3, they clearly prefered having their "customers" forced towards an AH.

That's not being busy. That's just doing your easy cakewalk job. I can browse the internet and post links and make useless polls also.


Grow up. Show some respect. FFS.
01/08/2013 08:26 PMPosted by Necx
All you hardcore players never cheated once in d3 to get your gear ? I find it hard to believe that never occured, past a certain point. Without the gear, you are doomed and everyone knows it, and the same was true for D2.


Never Rmah here... Can provide a screenshot if you don't believe me..
wouldn't touch 3rd party.. Don't like botting or duping but will admit I go to their forums and submit email to bliz about activity..

Gold AH I never had a problem with... Even the people crying about flipping..


No biggie I believe you, I waS just sorta curious is all. I never did either, short of selling on AH, but I 've never done any buying, as I wanted a totally clean character. Obviously I need alot better DMG to go much further though. Sigh.

cu
caJAI
01/08/2013 08:33 PMPosted by cajunctionAI
but I 've never done any buying, as I wanted a totally clean character. Obviously I need alot better DMG to go much further though. Sigh.


And this is why inevitably, if you want to progress further/faster/more efficiently, you will NEED to resort to the AH. the unfortunate truth.

actually on a side note, the most profitable way to play this game is not to play with your character AT ALL but rather to just sit infront of the AH menu and try and score some deals.. pathetic really.
01/08/2013 08:38 PMPosted by TeraFlare
but I 've never done any buying, as I wanted a totally clean character. Obviously I need alot better DMG to go much further though. Sigh.


And this is why inevitably, if you want to progress further/faster/more efficiently, you will NEED to resort to the AH. the unfortunate truth.

actually on a side note, the most profitable way to play this game is not to play with your character AT ALL but rather to just sit infront of the AH menu and try and score some deals.. pathetic really.


I can say you can flip 100-200mil easy if you catch the right items.. Well I haven't tried in a few months but It was back in nov... So my numbers may be off..
So Diablo II had an artificial skill allocation system? WOW. Baffling. And Path of Exile? So making those decisions do nothing to your character but give an appearance of doing something? WOW!!!
01/08/2013 08:47 PMPosted by Nexus
So Diablo II had an artificial skill allocation system? WOW. Baffling. And Path of Exile? So making those decisions do nothing to your character but give an appearance of doing something? WOW!!!


... it was not artificial.

edit: Is not articial
01/08/2013 03:43 PMPosted by Vaeflare
They added artificial complexity to the game, but didn’t actually add much in the way of customization.


This is because there are a minimal amount of stats allocated to you with each level. The decision was made to make the vast majority of stat points come from gear. All in all, with the paltry amount of stat points you get while leveling up, it would have been hard to break any character by assigning those stat points anywhere. For example, you get 180 main stat from leveling to 60. One piece of gear, at level 60, has more main stat on it than you get while leveling, not including paragon. Maybe I'm wrong, but that just sounds to me like a decision made with sending people to the AH in mind. Everyone needs stats, stats have gear, etc. etc.

Personally, I don't care if I assign the stat points or not. But if there were more of them on your character and less of them on you gear, your gear could have all kinds of cool affixes that actually would help much in the way of customization. Of course, that might not send people to the AH quite the way the current system does.
but I 've never done any buying, as I wanted a totally clean character. Obviously I need alot better DMG to go much further though. Sigh.


And this is why inevitably, if you want to progress further/faster/more efficiently, you will NEED to resort to the AH. the unfortunate truth.

actually on a side note, the most profitable way to play this game is not to play with your character AT ALL but rather to just sit infront of the AH menu and try and score some deals.. pathetic really.


I dont opposite to AH but this real. If anybody doesnt believe just look at my gear comply to the one who is fully geared with AH. The difficult is simple All they have is prefect , all i have is just close but not perfect ( my glove ammy armor pants is bought from GAH) no RMAH sorry . I can do Mp10 with my WD and Bar but both slow and full of death.

All good upgrade cost 50M - 100M and i get 50K every single hours games....
01/08/2013 08:47 PMPosted by Nexus
So Diablo II had an artificial skill allocation system? WOW. Baffling. And Path of Exile? So making those decisions do nothing to your character but give an appearance of doing something? WOW!!!


You know what allows players to do something with their characters? Broad itemization and skill build choices. That is lacking in this game. Every character within a class is the exact same. Does that make you feel like you have accomplished something?

It is sad that people are still talking about skill points either for or against. There are so many better improvements suggested within this thread to discuss.
01/08/2013 03:43 PMPosted by Vaeflare
While we enjoyed allocating stats and having intricate skill trees in Diablo II (as well as the benefits they provided), we ultimately feel the current stat and skill system is better for Diablo III. We heavily iterated on the skill trees and stat points in Diablo III for quite some time, but we felt that they simply didn’t fit the direction we wanted to go with the game. They added artificial complexity to the game, but didn’t actually add much in the way of customization. They also often rendered a remarkable penalty, in that if you mis-allocated a stat point or skill the wrong way, or simply wanted to change it at a later point in time, you were out of luck, as you were locked to your original choice.


I respectfully disagree. While stat points were relatively cookie cutter for everyone in D2, in D3 they could have made stats something that would make people really think about what they want to do. The OP pretty much summed up how to make stats interesting pretty well with his examples. The thing is that if you don't want to make it an illusion of customization, create it to be meaningful. Yes, D2's was an illusion, but that doesn't mean the correct decision is to remove it entirely. Create something that gives you meaningful customization.

Skills are about the same way. I do love the 'base' of D3's skill system. It's nice to have unlimited respects and the option to have augments via runes. However, you could have done so much more, but chose not to. Why not have paragon points that you can put into runes to make those runes more effective? That's just one simple example that would have made it more interesting and meaningful.

Why not have the gear/affixes to supplement most skills? There is just very little synergy between skills and gear. There are very few gear affixes that are desirable. Since there's hardly any augmentations to skills to make them more useful/powerful, all that's left is a desire for main stat, crit, crit damage and IAS.

The entire system as a whole seems like it was set up in a completely lazy way. Like Blizzard just came up with names, numbers and said, "That's good." None of, "How can we make these skills work together?" It seems like no one really put any thought into how they can make something really special.

The truth is, Blizzard, that you don't need to simplify games to appeal to the masses, especially in an ARPG. It's not like Diablo is going to ever be more complicated than Eve Online. However, the more you simplify, the easier it is to bore the masses. The less we have to work with, the quicker we're going to drop the game.

Take a look at the sheer customization allowed in Path of Exile. For most ARPG fans, that will keep you entertained for a long, long time. The whole point of ARPG's is to create characters that are powerful in their own unique ways. Diablo 3 simply does not provide the platform to do so. It's just a rush to sixty and a farm fest that is highly, I repeat, highly unrewarding.
01/08/2013 08:56 PMPosted by MADTHUNDER2


And this is why inevitably, if you want to progress further/faster/more efficiently, you will NEED to resort to the AH. the unfortunate truth.

actually on a side note, the most profitable way to play this game is not to play with your character AT ALL but rather to just sit infront of the AH menu and try and score some deals.. pathetic really.


I dont opposite to AH but this real. If anybody doesnt believe just look at my gear comply to the one who is fully geared with AH. The difficult is simple All they have is prefect , all i have is just close but not perfect ( my glove ammy armor pants is bought from GAH) no RMAH sorry . I can do Mp10 with my WD and Bar but both slow and full of death.

All good upgrade cost 50M - 100M and i get 50K every single hours games....


I think you read this wrong buddy. I AH = gold AH, RMAH = dollars
I actually enjoyed D3 at the start... My barb was my first char... Everyone was jumping ship to make a ranged char to do act 4.. Nah not me I kept plugging at my barb.. Was great and enjoyed it..

however shortly after him making it to act 4 they nerfed the crap out of the game.. and it hasn't been the same since... MP was a let down as well..

oh well..


I liked D3 at the start also, I was a CM wiz before the first vid was posted didn't tell anyone because I didn't want people taking my build until profiles came out then all the optimal ones just flushed out and such, having Guild Wars 1 as background experience it didn't take too long either to figure it out :(. I just normally like playing a squishy class melee, or mages in general being melee rather than the stereotypical ranged caster.
And how an old game had systems inspired already to lead into multiple diversities and that game is full of skill trees and is immensively popular, so those telling me skill trees & stat points is outdated, tell that to a 12 year old game still surviving and is massively going on updates still. It's only outdated if your skill trees/stats don't actually offer any equality between power & variation.


While we enjoyed allocating stats and having intricate skill trees in Diablo II (as well as the benefits they provided), we ultimately feel the current stat and skill system is better for Diablo III. We heavily iterated on the skill trees and stat points in Diablo III for quite some time, but we felt that they simply didn’t fit the direction we wanted to go with the game. They added artificial complexity to the game, but didn’t actually add much in the way of customization. They also often rendered a remarkable penalty, in that if you mis-allocated a stat point or skill the wrong way, or simply wanted to change it at a later point in time, you were out of luck, as you were locked to your original choice.

We strongly feel that in general, players will know whether or not they like a particular skill or play style only after they’ve had a chance to try it out for themselves. And while there definitely is some intrigue and fun to permanently committing yourself to a particular character design, it’s not what we envision for Diablo III. We want players to be able to experiment and find a combination of skills and runes that they enjoy and that fit them the best. We also don’t believe that the current skill system would really benefit from a free allocation of stats, either. We think that players can achieve a sizable level of customization through runes, and that this system fits in much better with the overall design of the game.


I just wanted to talk about this even if this doesn't get viewed. This sounds like a cop out to me. They can't try what they want to try with that type of setup... It isn't that hard to have a button or right click to remove skill points to be re-allocated. No offence but does anyone there think outside the box? This explanation is literally like someone with tunnel vision.
D3 anywhere outside of D3 forums chances are "D3 sucks" is the response.


Do you read these forums? It's about 70% hate in here.

probably the biggest disappointment of any pc game in history


kind of a ridiculous statement. something like Duke Nukem Forever
has more flaws.
the funny thing is i remember Bashiok actually telling the forums
not to get excited too much for this game just days before it came out.
i think they knew, dude. they knew what D3 is/was and were ok with it.

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