Criticising Diablo 3

General Discussion
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"losers walk" is a term used in sports that if you don't make a point, goal or whatever you call it for the game your playing is when the losers walk to the other side of the feild, court, ect. That said I am glad the death timers are gonna be removed. Because your gonna have to walk all the way back to where you died. But what if for whatever reasons unknown to players death timers or other features show dissapear up again? Wouldn't it be nice to know why they were there in the first place, or why they get removed? That said, I used tooltips in the AH and in game and think that as long as they are working properly they should be there for players but for some reason mine no longer work in the AH. I have a bunch of characters at different lvls and I just don't have all the info for each class memorized by what items they need and what items will be complete upgrades. I was burned a few times because I bought a legendary and it was not an upgrade, that was before I had or knew about tooltips in game and AH. Not only that but I am sure I got at least one item that had I known the actual value I could of held onto it to use or sold it for enough money that I would have been able to cut back on the items I had to vendor or not pick up all the gold. Could items be made to reflect a price that it can be sold for on the AH? Even if that amount is different from the amount that you can sell it to a vedor? This price should also reflect the amount you can get if it has gems in the item as well.

point & click adventure, casual bejeweled twist, bejeweled 3, monkey island, legend of grimrock, xcom, resident evil, final fantasy, chrono trigger, metroid series, resonance point and click adventure, puzzle games like limbo platforming, audio surf, vindictus, ragnarok online, atlantica online, continent of the 9th seal, knight age, silkroad online, savage eden, biosfear(dead), khan online(dead), RF online, survival project(english dead), talesewaver(KR), FF14(died and reborn-reborn looks good), nexus kingdom of the winds, tactical commander/shattered galaxy(first MMO RTS i've played when I was 13), like it just keeps going these are some of the few i've played. for consoles the list is fairly massive as well.

Yes, you may say I have no life. But I enjoy evaluating games I come across and going into every detail down to the pixels to compare with what's new vs. what I've experienced in the past.

I'm not sure why, but I get excited every time I see some one who used to play Nexus TK. I have so much nostalgia rooted in that game.
My prediction for patch notes 1.0.7.

Removed death timer.

PvP dueling has been postponed at this time.
This guy's entire argument and basis for discussion goes out the window when he references the creators of FFXIV and its rerelease as people that should be looked at for setting the standard for what is right in video game creation...lmao
01/09/2013 08:59 AMPosted by Songi
This guy's entire argument and basis for discussion goes out the window when he references the creators of FFXIV and its rerelease as people that should be looked at for setting the standard for what is right in video game creation...lmao

Yeah, Square-Enix. Like they ever made good or influential game. FF XIV failed, but not only that - they admitted the failure.
Total losers - right?
I see blue posts pop up sometimes that certain things don't seem to fit in the scope or direction of the game. Future designs need to fit into the scope of the game.

Because this game has the "Diablo" name on it, it is a franchise game. Shouldn't this game's scope or direction have been designed around the franchise's core features?

Yeah, Square-Enix. Like they ever made good or influential game. FF XIV failed, but not only that - they admitted the failure.
Total losers. "Write"?

Those games weren't fun, its just nostalgy.

What games? All FF up to 8 were great . FF Tactics advance. All DQ up to 8 were great. They were loads of fun at the time. Some of them are still nice for retro-gaming.

Not a huge fun of what they do lately.

It is not nostalgia. Older Square and Enix games were great relative to their time of release.
I highly reject the idea that legendaries should be better than rares.... As it stands the best in slot items are legs or set items... but the legs and set items fall so abundantly now, that just about everyone is all decked out in the same attire... granted some have nicer stats then others.

Every day that goes buys, just equals more equipment stagnation. The best rolled rares should have the ability to put legs to shame. Allow rare equipment to occasionally roll a affix not normally rolled by that slot type.. ie, rare helms can occasionally roll IAS... etc.

just my 2 cents.

Also, i don't have a single friend on my list that plays this game to try and make money... It seemed that the OP, suggested that was the norm. It's most assuredly not why most of us are playing.
This is not true and you know it. Actually in patch 1.0.5 it was the Barbarian that got the nerf and other classes the buff. So what if Jay Wilson likes the Barb. It's not disproportionately OP when compared to the other classes. All classes can be OP. it's all about the gear you have and not the class you roll.

1.0.5 <- last login = August = pre 1.0.4 that's a fairly LONG time b4 it got nerfed and by then everyone was cashing out on AH whoever rolled barbs and farmed with it and continued amassing gold & REAL money. So yes it was OP, if you're arguing for the sake of efficiency and speed everyone else had the short-end of the stick and if youw anted to attach greed
(RMAH) on to your game guess what, funnel into the fastest and best method available of course!

Diablo as a series is an action RPG. Not a traditional RPG. In the sense it has everything required to be an RPG. But lacks a lot of the in depth stuff like deep statistic choices. If you want 50 different character stats all with special uses, go play another game. Diablo was always less about thinking and more about jumping right in and having fun with mates slashing away. I believe you want Diablo to be a game series it is not.

I fully disagree, Diablo 3 is on the border of not being an RPG, tell me what control you have over any of your stats at all? or skills apart from re-spec? Your stats are auto-allocated, your armor stats are rolled by luck of the drop from a monster, and your skills unlock in a set fashion based on your level from 1-60 and their modifiers never to be manipulated in any way from the player. Everyone is just a sticker with a different class name attached, with your armor being other stickers that you just pick up. I believe I want Diablo not to be dumbed down further not to be a game series it never was.

1000 (or a large number) of skills is a bad idea. For a few reasons.
1. Very hard to balance them all for PvE and PvP. The less you have the easier to balance, but players want more so you need a balance between the two.
2. Would delay the game's release as each Diablo 3 skill has a lot of work put into it. As does each rune of a skill.
3. A stupidly large number of skills encourages people to swap out to new skills when they don't work. But a smaller number of skills encourages people to stick with their skills and get better using them to win. Totally different focus.
4. Would every skill in that stupidly large number actually be good? No. Heck not even every one in Diablo 3 is good. But most are. And that's better then most games of this type. better have a few good skills then a lot of bad ones.

And the unlimited respec issue? That was already debated a long time ago, in Diablo 3 beta days. And the answer was Neph Valor. And it fixes the issue pretty well.

I said not to that extent, and yes Guild Wars 1 does make use of all those 1000 skills so it's not impossible or unrealistic, you have 1000 skills but each class can select between about 200-400 of the pool because each class is about 200-300 skills and you can have 1 secondary class. There are TONS of viable builds in GW1, some involving skill in disrupting 0.5second cast spells or attacks and the like, others involve synergizing different effects, poison life steal bleeding etc.

Diablo 3 is an RNG based game. And IDing random loot is a lottery. You can win or lose. Clicking an attribute + item over and over the exact same way for each character was not fun in Diablo 2. One misclick and 50+ hours wasted. Both are very different things. And does not speak for any reason.

TL2 has meaningiful stats, has small re-spec and if you close the window then you've committed to your stat upgrade so they really fixed that *oh!@#$ clicked wrong stat wasted 50 hours problem*, also their loot makes me choose between them most of the time not just replace and nvr look back, something D3 highly needs, not to mention their RNG isn't as horrid either.

Again you only see the negative. Let me point out the positive of this.
1. Server reasons. I guess maybe they can't have so many death/respawns so close together so they need a timer to slow this down. No idea here just I'm just thinking.
2. Stops people zerging an elite and makes you think how to beat it the proper way.
3. Gives you a break from the game. Too much eyeballs on the screen without blinking is bad for you.
4. Just be glad it has no resurrection sickness like WoW has.

1. Player doesn't need to give a crap about the server ever, unless you are actually in charge of the database and such or its lag and ping or quality of service. The game is 4 players if it can't handle that or small instanced room copied across many clients then your networking sucks. The only thing the player cares about is LAG, and that's what you get for implementing a game as online-only, as if LAG wasn't already a problem? What's a few more deaths going to do, your game is running on a continuous loop I fail to see how a death & respawn has anything to do with the server.

2. Zerging? Who cares about zerging. Beating it the proper way? Lmao please, all I did was corpse hop with another person through gearchecks and walls of enemies. Didn't take very long, respawn timer had no effect, it just made it slower. Didn't have to zerg at all when I can ninja hop with a dead body. Zerging actually allows for different builds, especially the most efficient ones to be made. Ever play guild wars 1 and zerg into a horde of 40 monsters and come out alive? Whereas you go fight like a handful of 5-6 and you die with the same build. Sorry you just never experienced such diversity.

3. If I wanted to take a break from the game I'd hit ALT+F4. Or click QUIT on that "You died" screen. Doesn't sound good for whoever's game it is if you want players quitting.

4. What has this got to do with WoW?

People loved players X in Diablo 2. So they brought it to Diablo 3. And it works well, even with the 4 game difficulties. And you have it better then Diablo 2. There are in essence unlimited respecs in Diablo 3 so you don't have to re-roll your character if you made a skill selection choice you did not make. So no more endlessly levelling tons of characters through every difficulty. Once per class to inferno (2x if you want the achievements) is all you have to do to experience it all. Think of it as a blessing. Because it is.

And there goes all your replayability. "Once per class to inferno (2x if you want the achievements) is all you have to do to experience it all". A blessing or a curse? Not to mention everyone levels in the same path exact same way with the only difference of monsters being killed, and armors being dropped. Core of the essence barely anything. I for one like to be unique in a game, not be a replica of someone else traversing the exact same route in terms of character growth.

God awful crafting - The D3 Blacksmith = Gheed in D2. Both are gambling.
No gambler - Blacksmith in D3. That's your gambling.

Gheed = your gambler,
D3 Blacksmith = your poor limited RNG and selected item with specific stats, not gambling.
D2 it's just an icon with complete question marks + a price.
Horadric Cube = your D2 blacksmith & crafter.
The best rolled rares should have the ability to put legs to shame. Allow rare equipment to occasionally roll a affix not normally rolled by that slot type.. ie, rare helms can occasionally roll IAS... etc.

But some best rolled rares do put legendaries to shame. For example if you look at Wizard Hats the only ilvl 63 legendary Wizard Hat is the Storm Crow which has only 1 random affix which means you have to choose between Crit Chance or a socket. For a CM Wizard I would prefer a rare Elder Hat or Archmage Headpiece with like 4.5%+ Crit Chance, 10 APoC, Socket, 70+ AR and 100+ Int. The last time I checked there was only like 1 on the AH like that which cost way more than a Crit Storm Crow could ever cost. Also rare shoulders for Barbs can be better than Vile Wards and rare Rings and Amulets can be better than set or legendary Rings and Amulets.

But of course getting nice stats on rares is very hard as most of the time they end up with rubbish stats (like thorns or crowd control reduction) or the amount of stats are too low for an inferno item (like 25 for str/int/dex/vit or 25 for AR etc). I think that items in inferno should have a higher stat minimum eg:

level 61 affixes 110+ int/dex/str/vit, 60+ AR
level 62 affixes 115+ int/dex/str/vit, 65+ AR
level 63 affixes 120+ int/dex/str/vit, 70+ AR

I mean it's kind of discouraging when 99.98% of your loot is vendor trash not even worthy of a budget set because of rubbish stats and stats that are too low in value.
Game is boring, op could have just said that. It's been said a million times and I know blizz has acknowledged it, but the game needs something to keep people interested.

Uber bosses was fun for literally one week before it got monotonous and my friends and I asked 'what's the point?'.

Don't feel like doing Arreat Crater lvls 1-3 5000+ times to get to Paragon level 100.

The fact that this game won't have another patch for at least 2 months, that may or may not be a saving grace, is the deathblow in my mind. If 1.0.7 is just dueling and balance changes, it's the deathblow.
i like the new system as well although i admit that the part of the fun from leveling up in D1&D2 was because the attributes pts BUT diablo 3 took the system to a new place and i dont think its bad they it is cause this game is still funable and gives u choices about skills and ruins (probably respecs could solve diablo 2 problem that atom428 describes)
i dont think this is the main problem of diablo 3....this game took so many features from world of warcraft and combined it with good old fashion diablo style game but they have so much to fix\add
for example :
item lvl are weird and u can see item lvl 51 with base dmg of 500 and suddenly same item lvl with base dmg of 180 whats the point in item lvl if i still have item lvl 40 that is better than 50???
randomazation isnt good (almost dosent excist)
i would add more item types (like resource pots and some other new stuff to collect) and in general lots of new recipes
more traps ,events, bigger dungens and interesting thing to encounter
more abilities to monsters rather some stupid walls that you cant do nothing about it once u run out of resources and everything is on CD
and ofc the stupid online mode that i cant understand .....
but in the bottom line diablo 3 is a great game i just hope they will do some serious improvements in a huge patch or expansion
01/09/2013 08:59 AMPosted by Songi
This guy's entire argument and basis for discussion goes out the window when he references the creators of FFXIV and its rerelease as people that should be looked at for setting the standard for what is right in video game creation...lmao

At least the heads of FFXIV understood the game was crap and everyone was unhappy.. He took it down and began remaking the game... That's ownership and being supportive to its fans..
Blizzard is to arrogant to admit the game failed to live up to the legacy that pretty much sold the game in the first place. Square Enix hasn't been what they were when they were 2 seperate entities. At this rate indie devs are going to offer the most innovative gaming experiences. Also communication with the players/fans? I mean who wants those sort of things?
I'm sure it's been mentioned, but players are so bored of farming the few areas of act 3 over and over with higher monster density. Running the other acts again would draw more interest, so more monster density is required in the other acts. Could be done in two ways; 1) change a handful of select areas/act to high density, or 2) rework the MP system to directly scale monster density.
Regarding that last part I'm glad to hear you're socially active among the venues that most people check and see, but the forums here are equally as important, if not even more. It's quite disheartening to see these threads & many other things go without any response for pretty much half a month each time.

I know you all have to attend meetings conferences design shakedowns and whatnot, I'm not oblivious to that for sure, but it'd nice to get a check-in from you and the other CMs maybe once a week, daily is just asking too much. I've seen Blizzard's studio and HQ(pretty bold statement I guess), seen development teams and gone through development cycles, game design classes & studios and I know that job is extremely demanding from customers(i.e the players) and highly stressful with crazy crunch time and OT during certain phases of milestones and the like. But a simple drop-in weekly would be nice rather than silence for half a month to something else.

Maybe even just rumor debunking would be nice, or small tidbits of why the blog posts are delayed or something. Not asking for miracles or lies here just some communication.

With the exception of our [url=""]holiday break[/url] and whatever time each of us take off for events or vacations throughout the year, we’re here, and we’re busy. Each week we have [url=""]numerous blogs[/url] that go up concerning a variety of topics, and pretty much every weekday one or more of us are actively posting updates to our social media sites as and posting here on the forums. While what we post on might not always be the issue that concerns you most, I can assure you we don’t go months without posting (I’ve posted about a half a dozen times here today, and Lylirra is very active as well). But when time and schedule allows, I’m personally trying to squeeze in more time to post here and [url=""]elsewhere[/url] on the “interwebs.” :)

As I said though, we’re definitely interested on continuing to improve communication with the community. One of the things we’re looking into is a better method to make sure that important “Blue” posts are highlighted, since I suspect many inadvertently are overlooked (which explains some of the repeat questions I see so often).

I'm just going to say what everyone is thinking and wanting to say, it's cool you feel a few posts a day with a few days of nothing is then enough but the community is actually pretty unhappy with the lack of responses. We don't expect every topic to get a reply and we certainly don't need to be told you don't post on many of the serious topics (at times these blogs and blue posts are largely just to delete topics that have caps or blogs with no real value). Here is all I'd expect from a blue and you'll find it's not actually that much, but I do believe the blue's manage to fall short of it on a regular basis.

- 3 posts a day on the forums (you take this between each blue and you get quite a few posts) around 3 or 4 days a week. That leaves you room to post just 6 posts in 5 days. You posted that just today according to yourself so it'd be remarkable if we could get blue's to maintain that level of posting and try and spread it out over more topics so we get more answers on more problems.

- once a month, it'd be nice if each forums (EU, NA, NZ and wherever else there is) got a blue who stook on the forums and just let people ask questions. On league of legends I see AMA's (ask me anything's) that get hundreds of replies from the staff within a space of a few days. I find it really sad that we go months with just nothing from the blue's on what to expect from the game or any productive or engaging posts on there behalf, it's always us making the topics to receive the same kind of reply 'we appreciate this constructive post and will send the feedback to the devs, thanks for it and prepare for radio silence of months'

we simply get no feedback on how stuff is going, whether the devs liked the suggestions, whether they have given a hint they are planning to implement it etc.

- no radio silence. For serious, this is the worst thing. We come onto this forum and spend ages trying to get the devs to notice and all we get is the same complaints over and over, we get the same 'looking into it, thanks for feedback' responses that make us believe nothing is going anywhere. You see the problem with that is it is just another form of bad communication and lack of transparency, say someone suggested something good and the devs have been working on it for weeks but someone else on the forums had a better way of doing it. He's not contributed because he didn't know anything was going to be done, Blizzard acts a scientist that goes 'ah yes, ah yes' and then goes behind a curtain for 50 hours. We only get to comment on a system when it's too late since they have usually done some damage by then or done something we never wanted (AS nerfs would have been more pallet-able if we knew they were coming, legendary changes would have been easier to adjust to rather than guessing what gear you needed to sell ahead of time etc.) I just feel like every time something could do with a bit of communication Blizzard has hid the development team behind the curtain and informed them not to discuss anything with us.

So overall all I want is a few posts of various topics, an AMA now and again where a dev tells us what is coming, what changes they are looking at etc. It can be vague but do you know how annoying and bad is it for the community to just go with radio silence and constant posts about those things they want you to fix, that you could be fixing that minute that you won't even post on? Yes, things are open to change but we know that and you can stay vague where need be but radio silence on any and all upcoming patch changes just seems pointless. The community knows we want more posts, the mods do too but they just recycle there answers and say they are posting or we can complain to some link. I tried that, after 6 months of feeling like they wouldn't engage with the team I couldn't help but get sick of that attitude of not engaging with the community but nothing much changed. I am from the EU forums actually where we are sometimes lucky to get a post or two a day. I wish we could get some actual open communication with the developers about plans, about them telling us which ideas they are most looking into so we can form constructive posts on relevant points we know could be taken seriously but it stands at the moment we're so in the dark that we just have to complain at everything and hope Blizzard is listening as much as they say they are.

Like here is a suggestion (one I believe I've mentioned before on EU forums but of course it's guesswork whether the mods noticed it or not), most people agree that the lack of permanence was a bad thing but most will acknowledge there was a good idea and reason to try and allow people to be freely open to experiment with all the skills since it just saves time and it saves starting over characters to get the same result. I don't like having nothing to invest though, I'd have much rather had a series of quests (similar to finding the keys and forging the hellfire ring) that then let me reset my skill. Some parts of it would be random, some parts hard, some only come up every 3rd day or something and once you've done them all then you can reset. I mean it's hard to see how that would work in D3 anyway since there's no real investment in any skills and whatnot but it'd be nice if they found a way to reintroduce some investment to the series and allowed you this method or something similar so people can change there skills even though they can invest in skills. In Borderlands 2 all you do is spend your money and you can reallocate your skills, still feels like you have more permanence than in D3 though.
01/09/2013 08:59 AMPosted by Songi
This guy's entire argument and basis for discussion goes out the window when he references the creators of FFXIV and its rerelease as people that should be looked at for setting the standard for what is right in video game creation...lmao

It was a mere example, I could state ArenaNet as a good example as well or RunicGames, or CCP(EVE Online), or Gravity Co. or TeamBloodLust, or DevCat. It's just FFXIV was indeed an entire revamp of a game with a very highly well-known IP(Final Fantasy series)

Unless you prefer indefinite silence on blizzard's behalf? I'm sure a lot of players would fully 100% disagree with you in favor of having no information from Blizzard ever?
Statpoints and skill trees do not ad an "artificial complexity" - they and a real complexity to the game that makes people do some real hardcore therocrafting. Just look at the Diablo2 forums - that btw are still very very active today.
Would you please explain to me how a system like Diablo 2 doesn't add much in the way of customazation? I don't understand you arguement.
Based on what I see there is much much more customazation in Diablo 2 than there is in Diablo 3. There is litteraly hundres of different builds which are different in either the way you allocate your stats or skills or both.
How many builds are there in Diablo 3? maybe 2-3 per class - so much for more diversity.

Real complexity in D2's system, okay here is a bonemancer build

20 Teeth
20 Bone Spear
20 Bone Spirit
20 Bone Wall
20 Bone Prison
1 Bone armor
1 Corpse Explosion
1 Clay Golem
1 Golem Mastery
1 Summon Resist
The remaining five goes into the curse tree to get useful curses.

I wonder how hard that was as far as figuring it out. Even the calculator tells you what skills give you synergy bonuses. I did that all without a spreadsheet and without doing any math at all.

D2's real complexity boiled down to the fact that we looked at the choices as being difficult. If you see something as hard, then it will be hard. In fact, it will be a lot harder on you than what it really is.

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