Can we please get past stat point complaints?

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I think people are just looking for more ways to progress their character than just loot. I agree stat points sucked but I think they felt they had more control over their character in LoD than just loot drops. I think people are missing that feelings more than they miss stat points.
More customization is always better. KradisZ said it best. I will go further to point out that skill point selection that gels well with the skill trees indicates a fairly deep level of thought put into it on the developers part. It is synergistic, allows for many builds. Skill points need to offer viable alternatives for character building/customization when combined with skill trees or they are rather meaningless. These systems should mesh and compliment each other while opening up many possibilities for custom builds.
In D3, this is not the case. Furthermore, the skills within the trees themselves do not compliment each other very well with rare exceptions such as sprint/ww and so on. It is a step backwards. Torchlight 2 blows D3 totally out of the water in this category and I dont really see how anyone could argue otherwise.
Play torchlight2 more, my embermage is running all str for critical strikes on a staff that hits blatantly hard vs. all focus, str + dex dodging at melee range and stun with knockback and extremely hard hits due to str increasing weapon damage. focus is for spells only i built my embermage differently from what you're already mainstreaming from guides or whatever.

As for outlander don't need to use guns or glaivse either, you can train it as a shadowling master and play it almost like a necromancer, many different options or more, doesn't have to be dex or focus either, can be just half focus and grow vit for shield block while minions do the work.


That is good that there is more customization than what I saw when I was playing Torchlight 2, but you're not hearing me.

Take all the choices you just listed and make them all powered by the same stat. You still have all the choices you listed. The stats themselves had absolutely no meaning; they were just a button you pushed to make your chosen play style not suck.

Have you really ever looked at a character build screen and thought to yourself "I want to play this character with a 300 in this box right here"? I haven't. I've thought to myself "hey, I want to play this sorceress that shoots ice orbs" or "hey I want to summon fire from the heavens or some !@#$" or "hey I want to get up in some guy's face and hit him with a stick." Then if the game had stat points, I clicked the correct combination of "+" buttons to make that happen - and if the game didn't have stat points, it didn't friggen matter because those weren't part of any customization I was making.

This isn't like DnD or Dragon Age or something where you can't intimidate someone during roleplay if you don't have enough Str or Con or whatever. Stats in Diablo exist only to make you not suck at whatever spells you want to use.


TL2 sucks , its no d3 killer or whatsoever , that shiet turned to ghostown like a month after release , go play your disneyland simulator hahah
@Gormok:
Right, and this is not to be confused with synergies which had a detrimental effect on custom character building in D2. I think the ww/sprint build is a lot of fun, fast paced and synergistic. This may have been intentional or it may have been a happy accident but the trees should be full of this sort of thing for all classes. Add procs for strings of crits, blows that do over XXx damage to the enemy, surviving at low health, blocking 3 hits in a row with a shield, dodging and so on that mesh with the players build choices and skill point allocation. There are other ways to approach this and open many unseen builds in the skill trees, it just takes a little imagination.
Linking all skills to weapon DPS was also a big mistake. That is getting into itemization though and we are not discussing that here :).


TL2 sucks , its no d3 killer or whatsoever , that shiet turned to ghostown like a month after release , go play your disneyland simulator hahah


Runic GamesVerified ‏@RunicGames

We had an amazing 2012, and proud to say that #Torchlight2 has sold over 1 million units! Thank you! Happy New Year's Eve everyone


ohhh geez that seems like a lot ..... hahaha .... prolly a million 12 yrs old , thats the only audience for that lousy asz game....remind how many copies did D3 sold besides 10 mill for starters , i bet that its way over a mill lol.
Right, and this is not to be confused with synergies which had a detrimental effect on custom character building in D2. I think the ww/sprint build is a lot of fun, fast paced and synergistic. This may have been intentional or it may have been a happy accident but the trees should be full of this sort of thing for all classes. Add procs for strings of crits, blows that do over XXx damage to the enemy, surviving at low health, blocking 3 hits in a row with a shield, dodging and so on that mesh with the players build choices and skill point allocation. There are other ways to approach this and open many unseen builds in the skill trees, it just takes a little imagination.
Linking all skills to weapon DPS was also a big mistake. That is getting into itemization though and we are not discussing that here :).


Explain to me how a mathematically variable number sequence calculation system is better then another equal mathematical variable number sequence calculation?

Is 1+1+1+1 better then 2+2?

Are you dumb as a box of rocks for making an accusation against programmable calculator saying it could not balance something correctly do to your inability to hone in on a clue?

Is the journey more important than the destination? I think so.
Perhaps I am dumb as a box of rocks. Clueless too , maybe.
Than, due :)
Im still trying to decipher this post and see exactly what it means lol.
D2 had a terrible stat allocation system... D3 continued with the uninspired primary stats which made it pointless to customize your character.

It was a nice illusion in D2 and people understood D2 was old so didn't expect the world. D3 is new and had lots of hype so people expected the developers to work on a meaningful stat system(think of PoE's massive passive skilltree).

At this point it is mostly pointless to ask for stat distribution since it would require a huge overhaul of primaries... or simply buff your characters by including another customization system(making the game even easier).
You are right hampster, it is pointless. There is certainly room for improvement though.
As for the skill point discussion, I was just pointing out that it can be meaningful in a well thought out system. I mentioned the obvious point that there are many ways to approach this, and in the context of D3 will almost certainly not include the introduction of skill point allocation.
I am interested to see how D3's systems will develop, as they surely will.
if this was a different game ok i see your logic, however, d2 to d3 was supposed to be an upgrade not a downgrade. Stat points adds to customization and yes most pple will do the same build but pple like me know this and use that to my advantage but there are more than just 1 common build for each class in diablo 2, ww barb, double throw barb, concentrate barb, frenzy dual wield barb, mf barb, tank barb not only that you can spec for pvp with more vit, imagine creating 6 different barbs for pvp and 6 barbs for pve theres always something to do not just oh well im lvl 60 cant change stats i got access to all skills..... zzzzzzzz and thats just barbs lol theres more classes, sad to say but ladder resets keep me remaking my characters on d2.
I will agree however they should add stat points (but not 80% vitality) all pts should be a small bonus i could be a health bonus barb or a more mana barb but it wont make or break my character.
I agree on all points Gormok, but we have what we have. I was really baffled by the weapon dps thing too. Maybe someone can enlighten us as to the advantages of this system.
It's not just stat points. There could be no stats distribution since main stat increases weapon damage, and itemization supports weapon damage, not variety. Theres no other systems in place, you only level in XP for hero levels, no trees no spell variety other than runes, lol please.

It's an entirely shallow system where the only progression options are increasing dps without losing survivablity through predetermined BiS items of main stat and the only other desired affixes, the trifecta DMs.

In a game that claims to be roleplaying, the way you play your role is terribly one sided and developed poorly because it has to incentivize an auction house. Once you reach the level cap with a hero there is really no reason to ever reroll a hero, and since items and skills are entirely based off weapon damage exploring other builds is really limited to DPS/efficiency as there are no other ways of being OP except damage. There's no options to goldlike dps, like resource vamp, or auras, or regen its just weapon damage in every area.

Everyone prioritizes a high DPS weapon, everyone searches AH or looks for the same weapon to drop. Its like taking chess and making all the pieces queens, they've dumbed it down and made it entirely too shallow and now they wonder why nobody continues playing after the level cap.
12/31/2012 05:39 PMPosted by Inune
Does clicking a "+" button somehow make you feel smarter or something?


This is something I often wonder myself.

You could have a stat for house cleaning and people would get a kick out of adding more points into it, regardless of what affect it actually has on your character.

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