Seven Years in Sanctuary

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01/19/2013 06:08 PMPosted by Drothvader
This thread saddens me greatly. I know that the forums have earned a reputation for rough justice, but I do not believe justice is being served by how people are speaking about Jay’s departure from Diablo III.

I whole-heartedly agree.

People have the right to dislike or disagree with certain aspects of game design, but the blatantly outright disrespect, and juvenile lynch mob mentality is completely undeserved. I am glad that D3 is not a carbon copy of D2.

Sure, D3's not a perfect game by any means, but it's not horrible either. I hope that one day people will set aside the vitriol in favor of constructive criticism.
MVP's are not employees of Blizzard Entertainment. We are players just like you.
Nothing I say is Official word from Blizzard, everything is of my own conjecture.
A Basic D3 Mechanics Compendium :

Droth, there always will be some people who are simply never constructive with any sort of feedback. Probably more so on these boards, maybe not, I don't know.


The lack of communication from Blizzard, the ignoring of any feedback, suggestions, criticism, bug reports, the roadblock of a support system, etc, etc;


Blizzard actively crush constructiveness and effectively aggravate non-constructiveness.

When you fail to get heard time and time again, when you are given the impression that constructive feedback is pointless, it is hard to remain constructive and easy to be otherwise.
Jay Wilson
His heart is a part of us
So bitter and cold
We are his legion, his creation
Vicious, engorged
The butcher bursting through walls
The voice of a skeleton king
The lovehate of El Devil Too
and oh, the looming of its shadow
Within and among us and...
only our imaginations.
Jay Wilson, we are one.

[edited for poetics]
I still say piss on the haters, you guys made a great game, and are continuing to make it better. I think it is sad that Jay is gone, and hope the best for him in the future.

You vile little children who have nothing but disrespect because they didn't do D2HD, grow up.
If you've been to the forums long enough, I'm sure you have to admit that there were more positive and constructive comments than there were vitriol.

David Brevik's comments were one of them.

But not only were they ignored, they are facerolled, soliciting response from the developer that is uncalled for.

So let history be a lesson for you that the community is not the one who threw the first stone.

When people are emotionally invested to the franchise, what would you expect if the developer accused them of not knowing what fun is, irrationally nostalgic, and since David Brevik's comments were a reflection of what the community has said all along, are we all losers?

Is there really room for constructive criticism?

Just by disagreeing with you right now, I'm sure I'm already labeled as a disrecpectful lynch mob.

Don't be silly, I wouldn't label you as such just for simply disagreeing.

I also don't disagree that there is quite a bit of constructive feedback on these forums. However, that feedback is grossly overshadowed by the immense amount of backlash towards one person.

Please don't take this as a trollish statement, as it is not intended to be... But consider this analogy.

"A drop of wine in a barrel of sewage, is still sewage. A drop of sewage in a barrel of wine, is also... still sewage."

My band director told me that once... Now of course, he was talking about music, but that statement still holds true here.

There can be tons of positive and constructive feedback, but it can be contaminated with that single poster who goes out of their way to act like a jerk.

It's kind of like that drunk guy who's being obnoxiously loud at your dinner party. All it takes is 10 minutes of that guy to spoil your evening.
MVP's are not employees of Blizzard Entertainment. We are players just like you.
Nothing I say is Official word from Blizzard, everything is of my own conjecture.
A Basic D3 Mechanics Compendium :

Your analogy is solid, in fact it is perfect.

Because this is exactly the way Blizzard see the community, and I must add, wrongly.

What you are saying is..

If 99% of the community is giving constructive feedback, but 1% is spewing vitriol, then in Blizzards eyes; the whole community are not being constructive.

The effect is that many of the 99% being treated like the 1% will see less point in remaining constructive.

Thing is, I'm not exaggerating here, Blizzard do not see the community as the multi-headed-hydra that it is. Blizzard see the community as some sort of united one-voice under a single management.

Look at the way they handled certain poorly implemented game mechanics and features that would be abused or exploited by some... they removed them or flat out nerfed them for the masses.

There are a lot of problems with communication, there are a lot of problems with the game, many of these stem directly from how Blizzard see us, the community.

Basically we are one single source of $, nothing more.
I just checked out the D2 forum for nostalgia. It seems they have a major issue of servers being chronically down.
Thank you for your hard work! Many people don't understand what it is to agonize over every decision in a years' long project, but there are those of us that do.

Much respect for you and your team, and will be there to play your next project :)
Thank you for your hard work! Many people don't understand what it is to agonize over every decision in a years' long project, but there are those of us that do.

Much respect for you and your team, and will be there to play your next project :)

To be fair, it seems like quite a few people on this forum know what it's like to agonize over every decision in this particular project.
I vote Chris_TheViking for Diablo III Game Director. I like his proposals.
My personal view on what's wrong with D3. This post is more-so a release rant for me, since all the biggest points have been said many many times in multiple threads already.

- Dumbed down itemization. Everything needs mainstat, cc, cd, as. Every upgrade is literally +1 to x random stat, there's no thought behind it. The new legendary flavor procs do not help because it is for the most part, worthless. It doesn't define your spec, it just makes an extra bit of new flashy lights to see if the item doesn't totally suck.

D2 had it nearly right, items like Wolfhowl, Faith Bows, etc would be the defining piece of a particular spec and you had to gear around it. This allowed some degree of thought and debate, I could gear this way, or that way, which in turn allowed more customization within the game. I could create another character just to use the skills and playstyle of a different class. This leads me to my next point...

- No reason to reroll multiple characters. Don't like your spec Just hop to town and pick another one, you're the master of everything. This takes away a lot of replay-ability within the game, why would I want to level two barbs Once you have a level 60 of every class, you're finished. I rather enjoyed making multiple characters of the same class. Javazon, Bowzon, Wolfbarb, frenzy barb, smash barb (ww two hander), bone necro, summoning necro, pure poison necro, !@#$%^--mancer (gimmicky curse build for annoying people in pvp), hammerdin, charger, foher, zealot, auradin and so forth. These are the specs that I could remember from just three classes and would be a leveled up character for each. Tons of replay-ability.

I initially thought when customization through gear was initially announce would mean things like a real skill bonus for wearing a particular suit of gear so I at least had a reason to roll another char. But nope, we got minor skill bonuses that can be pretty much be ignored.

- No customization and cheap-and-easy armor dyes don't really count. Why are we sticking with everyone looks and plays like a clone of each other. At least with D2 runewords, you could choose your armor base so you could have a different look. What happened to enchanting or elemental weapon effects actually doing something other then cold for a minor snare?

- Too much hand-holding. Why can't I pick how I allocate my stats, and don't tell me Don't worry your pretty little head about all that.

- Random out-of-the-blue nerfs to skills, completely killing specs that people find optimal. This isn't wow, why do we need perfect balance when there is no competitive pvp Whatever happened to we're fine with a little bit of overpowered.

- Ai is scripted, predictable, and shoving a ton of cheesy skills to add an artificial challenge screams amateur. At least make them somewhat random and adaptable to what the player does for a challenge instead of cheesy one shot mechanics, you know, before you nerfed it to the ground.

- Linear progression, forced cut-scenes, and no switching between acts. This is like permanent story-mode. Let me make a farm game in act 4, and be able to go back through 1-3 bosses if I want to. This seems like a simple thing, why would you take away the option to choose?

- Botting is just as bad as it was ever in D2. Maybe even more-so now since there's a real money component attached to gold.

- The AH was a nice touch but poorly implemented aside from making a quick buck.

Allowing your only singular currency to be farmed within the game just lead to rampant inflation, especially with your bot problem. Anyone who didn't win the lottery in one of those uber-rare drops or participate in the flipping/exploits when it was new is now pretty much *!@-out at this point, since upgrades are worth billions, or peanuts. Adding more gold sinks now just either hurts legit players or doesn't do anything towards the rich ones.

I think it would honestly have fared much better if you had have just ripped off JSPs trading style. Use a premium currency for purchasing gear within it only obtaining from real money purchase or selling an item.

- Too bright and flashy, it's hard to see effects that could kill you with everything blinking everywhere.

- The pony level is just retarded. It was funny for all of a few minutes then it just got old and it's an unfun slog for zero reward. Cows at least stayed amusing for years after it's discovery and was a fun level to farm to boot.

- Magda is stupid and Cains death is stupid. The last Horadrim being killed off like he's nothing annoyed me. This #$%^er lived through the Prime Evils wiping his city multiple times, then he gets killed off like he's a nobody by a butterfly-Rita Repulsa ripoff crossbreed? Come on...

And lastly, the story itself is written like it's catering to children. It honestly feels like one of my 3 year old niece's Saturday morning cartoons

"I'm a little boy-emperor doing obviously evil things! I'm not the MASTER OF LIES, noooo. hides Pinocchio nose."
"HAHAHA I sure fooled you! I truly am the Master of Lies!"

"You'll never defeat my siege."
*destroys siege machines*
"Nooo! Oh well, I don't need em! You'll never defeat my lieutenants."
*defeats lieutenants*
"Nooo, blast you Gadget! You'll never defeat me!"


There's probably more I missed, but I'm tired. Just really, read through some of this thread. When many people suggest the same thing, it's probably worth looking into; not to be brushed off and told that "we don't know fun."
Jay, even if this game sucks i would still have given you a chance to fix this in the upcoming expansion.

Before everyone jumps on me, this happens very often. Someone ruins a game and fixed it in the next expansion even if you got no hope.
01/19/2013 06:08 PMPosted by Drothvader
I hope that one day people will set aside the vitriol in favor of constructive criticism.

You... you must be new here. There has been constructive criticism since the game was announced and discussion began on the classic forums.

It was very back and forth back then.

Then it switched to the new forums, and it went sour. There was still back and forth, but most of our constructive feedback was given the "You're wrong. Trust us, you haven't played the game, you just don't know. We promise." Then we moved into Beta and it got downright absurd. The outrageous late-game sweeping changes to things like the runeskill system and Inferno's flat to progressive difficulty structure, it was all met with constructive criticism that was either outright ignored (no back and forth) or, again, the "You haven't played the full game, you're just playing a little piece of it, trust us, because you're wrong and you just don't know."

And then still it switched to full release, and the flood of constructive criticism rained down. And what did we get in return? "It's the game we made, and it's fun. Just be glad we didn't nerf X, Y, and Z in addition to nerfing A, B, and C. Aren't you thankful?"

I mean, seriously? You wish we, the community would give up the vitriol and start producing constructive criticism?

I wish Blizzard would start becoming receptive to constructive criticism, and communicating in response to that criticism with less excuse and PR language, and a more honest, empathetic, and open-minded attitude (and with great frequency).
01/19/2013 07:03 PMPosted by Drothvader
even with this reply sir you ignore the point that was made all the crap throwing being done was started by mr wilson. if it is wrong for the customers to do it why have none of you taken a stand when jay did it to the customers for years. i really want to understand the double standard

I don't see it that way. Aside from that one objectionable comment on Facebook, I really don't remember anything that was outright inflammatory.

Anyway... I'm not arguing.

I just share Rob's sentiment and disappointment with this thread.
MVP's are not employees of Blizzard Entertainment. We are players just like you.
Nothing I say is Official word from Blizzard, everything is of my own conjecture.
A Basic D3 Mechanics Compendium :

The responded to criticism of the art direction with direct mockery, and turned that mockery into advertisement (tee-shirts sold at Blizzcon). Then, they hardcoded that mockery of our criticism into the game in the form of Whimsyshire.
I love this game. Yes there are probably many things that would make it better and some of these will happen over time. But I still love this game the way it is. For better or for worse, i'm out there playing it every day, as are a lot of people who complain about it.

It seems to me that the people who hate it and wish it was more like D2 can still go back to D2. It is still there and running.

There is so much hate on this forum that it is quite depressing sometimes, but I guess that is the way of the world these days (sigh).

Anyway, thanks for a great job, and all the best for your future. And who knows, in ten years time people might be commenting about how bad D4 is and why couldn't it be as good as D3 lol.

01/19/2013 09:41 PMPosted by Starfire
If you still feel the need to dish out blame, then I would prefer you direct it at me.

Wow that takes a lot of guts to do and I respect that immensely. This might be the best blue post I've seen in years.

Mr. Pardo don't let the naysayers get you or your team down. When asked what the key to success was Bill Cosby said, "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody."

I'm pretty sure "trying to please everybody" is what they did in Diablo 3. Just sayin'.

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