Balanced IAS Monk - Finally, the BIG piece.

Monk
01/17/2013 03:07 PMPosted by flyin9monkie
Have you tried soloing mp10 ghom with no follower? how long does it take you to kill him?


Did it like 5 times just now - 73-76 seconds each time.

He's a 138m hit points and change?

Just did the math, based on 74 seconds and 138.5m hp im doing roughly 1.87m edps.

Edit - 12:1 EDPS:sheet ratio. :D
Unfortunately for you, I don't think that the ruby will increase your damage. You have SO much crit chance, and you have very little CD anywhere but from the sockets in your weapons. I really want to use a ruby myself, but I just don't see it happening. MAYBE if the ruby were to add it's damage to both weapons (since emeralds effectively add CD to both weapons). But I really don't think so, at least not with it's current stats. Ruby as it is would add nearly 25% damage to your offhand and about 20% damage to you main hand. So DPS wise would add about 22.5%. Take those emeralds out and see how much you lose if you'd like to test it preemptively. Or go to the PTR and try 'em out.

In the meantime your CC is WAY high compared to your CD, obviously because of cyclone this works out. However, they are nerfing cyclone.

Attacking really fast is a lot of fun, and rather cool, but your damage (both effective and paper) would likely be better served by dropping the AS on some of those pieces and grabbing CD instead. AS doesn't scale with any stats any better than CC/CD does.

(except ones you're not trying to use, LoH, and procs from either skills or items. Though you do probably get spirit out the yin yang with that APS.)
Unfortunately for you, I don't think that the ruby will increase your damage. You have SO much crit chance, and you have very little CD anywhere but from the sockets in your weapons. I really want to use a ruby myself, but I just don't see it happening. MAYBE if the ruby were to add it's damage to both weapons (since emeralds effectively add CD to both weapons). But I really don't think so, at least not with it's current stats. Ruby as it is would add nearly 25% damage to your offhand and about 20% damage to you main hand. So DPS wise would add about 22.5%. Take those emeralds out and see how much you lose if you'd like to test it preemptively. Or go to the PTR and try 'em out.

In the meantime your CC is WAY high compared to your CD, obviously because of cyclone this works out. However, they are nerfing cyclone.

Attacking really fast is a lot of fun, and rather cool, but your damage (both effective and paper) would likely be better served by dropping the AS on some of those pieces and grabbing CD instead. AS doesn't scale with any stats any better than CC/CD does.

(except ones you're not trying to use, LoH, and procs from either skills or items. Though you do probably get spirit out the yin yang with that APS.)


I've figured the same things as you, using d3up to simulate the new rubies. One thing I've read and maybe someone can comment on is that cyclone crit dmg is capped at 50%, if this is true then I could possibly gain a significant dps boost from my cyclones themselves by using rubies, but this isn't likely to be a net gain in EDPS since I'll lose on FoT dmg.

AS does scale with some of our monk skills very well.. FiTL, Backlash, Submission, Dashing Strike and of coarse with good CHC it increases cyclone production. AS + FoT + Echoing Fury compliment each other too, monsters run but not nearly fast enough. Show me another monk with more than 12:1 EDPS ratio? Apparently with my new Mempo I'm 12:1 now which is the highest I know of.

For PVP I use LOH and have been able to do incredibly well, better than I hoped too, for PVE LOH isnt viable at high DPS due to reflect damage and 3% lifesteal is all I need even for MP10, not counting reflect minions which are broken - confirmed by blue post.

Spirit is a definate bonus too :D - I wont give up AS but I will try to add in CHD where I can when I can afford too.

I've figured the same things as you, using d3up to simulate the new rubies. One thing I've read and maybe someone can comment on is that cyclone crit dmg is capped at 50%, if this is true then I could possibly gain a significant dps boost from my cyclones themselves by using rubies, but this isn't likely to be a net gain in EDPS since I'll lose on FoT dmg.

AS does scale with some of our monk skills very well.. FiTL, Backlash, Submission, Dashing Strike and of coarse with good CHC it increases cyclone production. AS + FoT + Echoing Fury compliment each other too, monsters run but not nearly fast enough. Show me another monk with more than 12:1 EDPS ratio? Apparently with my new Mempo I'm 12:1 now which is the highest I know of.

For PVP I use LOH and have been able to do incredibly well, better than I hoped too, for PVE LOH isnt viable at high DPS due to reflect damage and 3% lifesteal is all I need even for MP10, not counting reflect minions which are broken - confirmed by blue post.

Spirit is a definate bonus too :D - I wont give up AS but I will try to add in CHD where I can when I can afford too.

If cyclones CD% is capped at 50%, then CD isn't a great choice for that build. However, AS% doesn't really work any better for any of the skills you mentioned than CC/CD do (unless they can't crit). Dashing strike is a utility skill, and AS increases your spirit gains, so I can see why AS would be better for that. However, FitL doesn't work any better with AS, sure, you get more attacks in with higher AS%, but your hits hit harder (and therefor have a larger increase) with higher CD. As for cyclones, again, AS% means more cyclones, but more CD means cyclones that hit harder. If you make 10% more cyclones than someone else, but his hit 20% harder, he's doing more damage. Though again, I don't know about cyclone CD cap, everything I've looked at has pointed to this being a myth.

Cyclones scale doubly with CC however, so your increadibly high CC, your combination strike, and foresight rune are all rather unusual for a monk, resulting in higher EDPS than many. I really do think you'd benefit more from CHD than you do AS on some of those pieces at least. I would say the amulet if you can afford it. Also, inna's chest with higher dex (around 200 or so) may increase your damage slightly as well.

Here's a simple test, the +dmg on your ammy, as well as the dex are significant contributors to your paper DPS, but I think we can all agree they don't change your EDPS:PDPS ratio. So go on the AH and get a real cheap ammy with JUST 10% CC and 90%ish CD and do your ghom test again. Clearly this isn't the sort of ammy you'd be keeping, but it'll work to see if it changes your EDPS:PDPS ratio. If it stays at 12:1, then we have our answer, whatever stat raises your paper DPS is the one that's better for your effective DPS.
You are aware that APS directly affects the skills I mentioned right? I mean my Backlash damage is 130% weapon damage, Submission is at 45%, FiTL more than doubles my DPS, when I pop it I go upto 490k on paper. Dashing Strike is an odd one yes but the animation speed now scales with attack speed, so I don't really dash, I blink.

Im not trying to doubt CHC/CHD but for my build I put IAS/CHC before CHD, Id like some on my gloves and rings and neck but it's not been a priority for me because I enjoy this playstyle. I wanted to accomplish 2 things when I started this build

1.) Do mp10 wearing max attackspeed on everything I can. (done)

2.) See If I can break the WKL EDPS ratio of 10:1 by procing more cyclones without the 25% dmg boost that WKL gives. (done)

I have no interest in dropping attack speed but I would love to add CHD :D
You are aware that APS directly affects the skills I mentioned right? I mean my Backlash damage is 130% weapon damage, Submission is at 45%, FiTL more than doubles my DPS, when I pop it I go upto 490k on paper. Dashing Strike is an odd one yes but the animation speed now scales with attack speed, so I don't really dash, I blink.

Im not trying to doubt CHC/CHD but for my build I put IAS/CHC before CHD, Id like some on my gloves and rings and neck but it's not been a priority for me because I enjoy this playstyle. I wanted to accomplish 2 things when I started this build

1.) Do mp10 wearing max attackspeed on everything I can. (done)

2.) See If I can break the WKL EDPS ratio of 10:1 by procing more cyclones without the 25% dmg boost that WKL gives. (done)

I have no interest in dropping attack speed but I would love to add CHD :D


I have NO idea why FitL would be increase by AS, it REALLY shouldn't be (though I have heard that FitL was bugged, I forget how exactly). I see, FitL is scaling with IAS like backlash is. This is a bit silly since backlash doesn't scale with AS% regularly, and thefor has to to make up for it, FitL already scales with AS since your AS is going to increase the hits you do in the buff time... As for the other skills you mentioned, their WD% goes up, but no higher than CD% would do. Your AS% makes the backlash %WD go up, but that's still about the same as 35% of your DPS, same as anyone else. About that right? But you're not considering that that's weapon damage%, not dps%. So you're not actually doing any more damage than someone with lower AS% and higher weapon damage/CC/CD. Didn't know about dashing strike, that's deffinately cool/interesting.

However, since they are taking snapshot out of 1.0.7 your EDPS ratio is going to go down quite a bit. I'm not saying you have to change of course, I'm just saying that 1.0.7 is going to be a nerf to your playstyle, not a buff like you're hoping, and getting some CHD might work better for you than some of that AS%. If you like the way you're guy plays right now, by all means, keep him the same.
Have you tried soloing mp10 ghom with no follower? how long does it take you to kill him?


Did it like 5 times just now - 73-76 seconds each time.
He's a 138m hit points and change?

Just did the math, based on 74 seconds and 138.5m hp im doing roughly 1.87m edps.
Edit - 12:1 EDPS:sheet ratio. :D


Is there any specific reason to keep such a high APS for the EDPS ratio? and loss so many other stat? like dex and CD?

You can sell your expensive mempo and use inna's helm to gain the 130dex set bonus.
Then you can upgrade other stuffs for more dps.
You may get the ratio drop, but u should get higher edps?

For example, I use SW bonus inna helm (1M) and WKL (250M). My ratio is only around 11-11.5, but I kill mp10 ghom in under 60s
01/17/2013 02:05 PMPosted by Solo
Now something that I think really helps thunderclap, especially at my attack speed is having it on your right mouse button which allows you to NEVER need to click it and have you auto-home in on targets. Stuff happens so fast when I'm playing on my monk and this one thing alone adds much dps I'm sure. Combine the teleporting and auto-homing on targets with sweeping wind procing more cyclones than you can count and you might start to get the picture.

Its nice to see at least 1 other person showing RMB some love :)

I always get crickets when I try suggesting how superior RMB as your primary is...and its sad that only a select few useful secondary skills (FS, DS, SSS, EP) can be bound to LMB too :/
Is there any specific reason to keep such a high APS for the EDPS ratio? and loss so many other stat? like dex and CD?

You can sell your expensive mempo and use inna's helm to gain the 130dex set bonus.
Then you can upgrade other stuffs for more dps.
You may get the ratio drop, but u should get higher edps?

For example, I use SW bonus inna helm (1M) and WKL (250M). My ratio is only around 11-11.5, but I kill mp10 ghom in under 60s


I like AS, Ill add more of the other things like CD/Dex but I wont lose on AS, I enjoy it far to much.

Created this thread a few days back when I was missing the Mempo, not easy to find such a good deal on one like this, have no plan to sell it, I will keep my dual res inna's helm tho and proly still use it from time to time.

If that's truely your dps ratio, it is high even for WKL.

Its nice to see at least 1 other person showing RMB some love :)

I always get crickets when I try suggesting how superior RMB as your primary is...and its sad that only a select few useful secondary skills (FS, DS, SSS, EP) can be bound to LMB too :/


Funny isn't it?, people need to try it to understand I believe. RMB > LMB for FoT

Was playin some pvp last night and my barb buddy was hiding around a corner, neither of us could see one another and I killed him cus my FoT could see what I could not. :D
I 100% support Solo. I was leaning towards that path myself but eventually due to lack of gear I gave up and went for a slightly slower standard.

An example would be skorn, with my skorn I can get to 180k unbuffed but it nowhere performs nearly as efficiently as attack speed when I was only 130k dw. Paper DSP uses your cc/CD to calc but remember you need to actually crit for that damage. Otherwise your white damage will be the same as any monk. Attack speed is an equalizer to cd. Your hitting tons faster resulting in more white damage per second as well as crits per second.

At 2.5 atps vs 3 you basically have 1 more attack after 2 seconds. A difference that can make up for even 100% CD.
I agree that AS is cool. I understand why you don't want to lose any, so perhaps a different suggestion would be looking into an EF with lower damage/dex but has CD% in addition to the socket. I THINK that would up your damage. But really, I'm not sure. Worth looking into though.
What is LMB RMB FOT?
01/19/2013 02:57 AMPosted by Guybrush
I agree that AS is cool. I understand why you don't want to lose any, so perhaps a different suggestion would be looking into an EF with lower damage/dex but has CD% in addition to the socket. I THINK that would up your damage. But really, I'm not sure. Worth looking into though.


A higher DPS 1.58 APS EF with dex and a socket please :D - The One I currently use is the highest DPS one in North America but I would like one around 1400DPS or close to it, would add almost 10k dps without losing speed. If I use a dex/CD/OS EF I will lose speed.
01/20/2013 04:52 AMPosted by beh
What is LMB RMB FOT?


This is about putting FoT on your Right Mouse Button instead of your left, try and see for yourself.
Isn't the snapshotting change going to nerf the EDPS on this build by a ton?

Without FiTL sticking to SW I can't see the EDPS staying at 12:1 since with such high IAS you're getting a stupidily huge bonus from it.

For those that don't know FiTL right now currently scales in such a way with IAS that you get much, much more than 30% damage from the bonus. On my monk with ~2 APS I get 60% paper DPS. With over 3 APS is it close to 90%, more?
When I pop flash I get more than 100% paper DPS, but that doesn't change SW bonus, it's still only 30% because it's based on weapon DMG not sheet dps. Changing Flash for BOH in PVE gets me almost the same dps, slightly less but since SW got a small buff I can retain more than the 15% from BOH compared to 1.06. EDPS proly suffers something like 5-7% but I havent really tested since PvP has taken all my time on the PTR.
Out of curiosity, what percentage does MoE:Backlash show for you? I have about half the IAS and it's showing 79/86% for me depending on which hand is active.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum