AS bashing has got to stop

Witch Doctor
01/07/2013 02:52 PMPosted by Lmaoonadee
as a WD noob who is seeking advice, what do you guys think is a good number to be at for IAS? As it is now, my build can steamroll the mid MP's with no issues. I haven't tried mp8+ yet and frankly, i don't know if i have the gear to do it. I'm gonna experiment a little, but do you guys think i should swap out my IAS ring for one with 6CC on it? As far as paper dps is concerned, d3rawr tells me that swapping out 9% IAS for 6CC will net me another 2k dpsbut i'm not sure of how a WD actually works yet


I roll with a 1.40 attack speed ceremonial knife and 9% witching hour. Running standard 4 piece zuni set with 10 and 11 bonus mana regen. Even then the mana can get a little dry sometimes in MP8 even with honored guest and SA+BR passive.

I'd suggest yeah, you should swap out your IAS ring if you are venturing into MP8-9 unless you want to do a little bit of moving, incorporate widow makers into your build, or rely solely on big bad voodoo to give you an infinite amount for a while. Usually you don't get that many options when you venture into high MP levels.

For me, my ring slots are locked up with zunimassa pox and litany of undaunted.

litany of undaunted/jungle fortitude/life link dogs in order to survive reflect damage and sit in pack to bear things to death (ignore my current build so far, was helping friend level) in high mp levels.


Very interesting read. Thanks for the great information. I will be swapping out my 9% IAS ring for a 6 CC ring. I wish i knew all this before buying it, but hey, I'm a WD noob and i'm still learning on the Job

You know, i'm starting to love playing WD. I've got over 1000hrs in a barb, but the WD offers so much more variety in builds and choices.

I can write a novel on why ias is bad for us, but gonna try to keep it short. First you may read my guide and discussion under it which i believe explains everything.

Here are the main reasons why you shouldn’t stack ias,

1- When you play on high mp (9-10) if you stop attacking you die.
2- If you want to be efficient you MUST use bears as the only offensive spell (no toads,splinters, locust etc), any other spell lowers your dps. So you will need mana and there is no way you can maintain it with high speed.
3- If you get surplus mana regen, you may start using PtV no need for ias stacking. FYI I get it when I play with a C4Doc in party who feeds me with globes.

My WD: eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Hasansabbah-2914/hero/1582160


great! Thanks for the info. i will be experimenting with dogs later. I think having heat seeking missiles that explode for 275% dmg is gonna be very useful in PvP

2- If you want to be efficient you MUST use bears as the only offensive spell (no toads,splinters, locust etc), any other spell lowers your dps.


Do not agree with that statement. WOS can be superior to bears when mobs are mobile.

2- If you want to be efficient you MUST use bears as the only offensive spell (no toads,splinters, locust etc), any other spell lowers your dps.


Do not agree with that statement. WOS can be superior to bears when mobs are mobile.


WOS is useful for moving targets i agree with that ^^ but for DPS wise bears still do more if they hit , the key phrase is ïf they hit
I wonder if Death on his 3rd alt WD is reading this...
01/08/2013 08:15 AMPosted by ChuckNorris
I suspect the mechanics that allow this are also interacting with our locust swarm skill. I will be investigating this when I got some time.


the only thing i can think of is col. it likely works in similar fasion, but will need to confirm that.
01/08/2013 09:43 AMPosted by Wil
IAS has nothing wrong per se. It all depends in what build you are using and specially which weapon you are wearing. Many of you are mixing the IAS you can stack with the attacks per second you have. Someone using a skorn and stacking in gear 40% attack speed (which is pretty high) will run out of mana exactly as fast as someone wearing a knife and 0 IAS. The attacks per second is what matters. By the way, the one with the skorn will increase his DPS pretty heavily without investing loads of gold.


i wish ppl would understand this concept.

increasing IAS with skorn > increasing IAS with 1h/mojo.

period. its about balance.

all the ppl crying about slow skorn are not stacking ias to compensate. i throw out SB - WoS like a m-gun. in fact, from testing with 1h mojo, i can tell you that FAR more souls are wasted using this skill than with skorn. i dont know why, but just test for yourself and you will notice it too.

1.93a/s vs 1.3a/s.

i can also use this build with Skorn:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#gfdUSj!UWf!ZccZYY

however, with a 1h mojo it just doesnt work. i am not a genius but it prob has something to do with PtV and 1.9 a/s...

so thats fine, no one is bashing IAS, just POOR JUDGEMENT on how to go about stacking it vs other stats, thats all.

btw, with ptv, and SoJ my WoS crits are completely stupid 1.1M. thats without SH and MC for extra dmg buffs.

and just to add my unbuffed pyrogist crits for 100k ROFL. not dependent on IAS btw. i will upload video later today.


? I'm still not getting why ias for low mp, why would we want anything that doesn't make vengeful spirit stronger


because it reduces cast animation. vs can at most be used for about half ur attacks. for the rest u gonno be using bears or ac in which case a.s. indirectly translates to movement speed.


...vengeful spirit can be nearly spammed on low MP.
Theres a build ive been toying around with recently that uses IAS to its advantage and, in my testing on high mps, and ubers it can yield nearly endless mana. At the moment i have 2.10 att per sec and around 85 mana per second regen but ive tested it with a dagger that does not have mana regen as well. For the build, my left click is spirit barrage either The spirit is willing rune or well of souls and i have a phys realm skill (anything that can activate vision quest) on right click. The 2 passives for this build are rush of essence and vision quest. I discovered one day that the mana return from rush of essence (49 over 10 secs) stacks and works well with high attack speed. The trick is the timing. Spam spirit barrage constantly and use a physical realm skill to trigger vision quest and watch the buff timer on it to make sure you keep it up as you need it. Ive been using it in ubers and i can literally (providing i can stand still) cast spirit barrage the entire time...as in 100% of the fight. When i do it with The spirit is willing i get some momentum going in my mana regen and ive gotten it past 200 mana per second with less than 70 per sec baseline. Once you get that momentum you can dump bears on whatever for a long time and regen mana back to full really fast while being able to spam spirit barrage while you recharge rather than using a lower dmg primary skill. Try it out it works like a charm and have your character sheet open to watch your mana regen when you test it so u can see what im talking about.
i wish ppl would understand this concept.

increasing IAS with skorn > increasing IAS with 1h/mojo.

period. its about balance.


How true. There is nothing supernatural about weapon speed. The faster your weapon is, and the more AS you use on gear, the more you have to manage mana. If you are using a faster WD weapon with a base speed of 1.4 (Manijuma), you will have mana problems much sooner than someone using a weapon with a base speed of 1.0 (Skorn).

That's why if you are going to spam a high mana spell like bears with a faster weapon, you need to get mana modifiers on your weapon and offhand. You can have as many as 4 mana modifiers in total (max mana/regen on both knife and mojo), so save yourself future mana problems and buy items with mana modifiers.
[quote="75913272187"]
increasing IAS with skorn > increasing IAS with 1h/mojo.


btw this is only true in terms of practical value for wd. for every other class your a.s. from armor slots gives you more attacks per second the higher the base attack speed of your main hand.


Do not agree with that statement. WOS can be superior to bears when mobs are mobile.


WOS is useful for moving targets i agree with that ^^ but for DPS wise bears still do more if they hit , the key phrase is ïf they hit


They do hit if you know how to play with bears.

At the moment viable builds for us are either bears or 0dogs. If you wanna play with bears you need low aps&slow weapon. And here is another reason why you shouldn't use daggers which have high as;

Say you have a good rare dagger with mana regen, chd, LS (not even talking about manajuma's since it's the worst item created for us) your minimum dmg is so low compared to a good spear/mace. I never see low crits with my spear while a dagger user will see them alot. Same goes with top dmg, daggers will always have lower top dmg. So dmg per your bear will always be low, you will go oom fast and wait for your mana to replenish or you are going to use spells to activate VQ while I can constantly spam bears.

Skorn is better than a dagger for sure, but worse than 1.2speed 1 handed since you lose cc. And if you don't land crits your spell is wasted.

I think WD is already perfect as it is. If you don't count broken monks, we are the best class for high mp's.
I still don't get how you people play with wos. I even bough quality mojo with 14% wos bonus, perf soj. And it just deals so little damage compared to bears. Even if you miss 90% of bears, that one wave that finally hits, deals already more damage, than continous spamming wos all that time (to single target).
If I try mp10 runs with wos + bears, I kill slower than using pure bears. And it doesn't matter if there are fast occultists packs. Wos seems just like waste of mana and time, if you have proper bears setup. It is much much weaker.
Attack speed will make a comeback with PVP.

3 snakes in the face per second with another 18% chance to proc fear?

It's going to be fun.
well i think that theres no need for us wds to go specifically for ias however no one will throw away a free ias that happens to come like on the witching hour inna pants lacunis etc. spamming bears isn't wrong , if u see mana going to fast just throttle ur bears, no that hard to do... take the finger of the keyboard and press it slower
Sayga had it right above... my crazy huge iAS gear from my WIZ will make it someday to my WD :-) With _Skorn_, to be clear...
haha just wanted to share my profile again, for those who are interested in stacking attack speed on a skorn. without a mempo this is my highest buffed dps. 1.53a/s lol.

so funny.

i do not recommend btw using ANY of this gear - ie skorn innas and tals

...unless you enjoy death... it is fun in groups though.

except RD made me one shot myself... with Pyrogeist.

in all seriousness though, without that crap my dps is 379k with PtV, which i use with my new build I was testing (see last comment above).
01/08/2013 07:21 PMPosted by windrunner
if u see mana going to fast just throttle ur bears, no that hard to do... take the finger of the keyboard and press it slower


mean not at all in which case you arent doing damage aka you are going to die.

dmg = lifesteal = survival

a lot of times not attacking for only a moment or two will result in getting popped from my experience.
Sayga, with 1.50 aps, frenzy, and BBV, I don't have mana problems casting WoS 6x then acid rain (3s DoT, 6x WoS == 3s). I use honored guest to replenish once after I've been spamming for a while.

If I had BBV forever then it would be a problem.

So for my own gear, I cap it at 1.50 with no mana problems.

BUT, I think the points remains. At 2.0 aps I don't have enough mana regen, despite focusing on it. On the helmet, mojo, and zuni set.

I just don't get how VQ+RoE is not enough for you. It's 1.3*RoE bonus mana regen. That's insane, or rather maybe how much we should have normally :\.
Tested in an earlier thread at 2.3 APS MP was fine without PtV @ 107 MP regen. At 3 APS couldn't sustain mana even with BR+SA

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