MH: 1-Hand Mace / Axe / Sword

Barbarian
I know what you're thinking. Wow, another stupid, "Which weapon should I use thread." But wait for it.

In my ongoing quest to weaponize my barb I've gone through a few stages, some completely misguided to other, more reasonable and conventional possibilities. Today I was rather bored and decided to run some numbers on d3rawr to see what kind of balance I would need to strike in order to have some reasonable damage.

Before I begin I'll give you the required information(from my barb) that I was working with:
Strength: 2323
% Attack Speed Bonus: 60%
% Crit Chance: 63%
% Crit Damage: 539% <----- this includes the weapon increases, all the same anyways

The Off-Hand I will be using:
Echoing Fury
500-750 Damage
1.44 APS
169 Str
+0.24 APS
159 CD total (includes full emerald socket)

Here's are the things I was testing (bare in mind this is all 1-hand):
1) Mace: str/cd/socket
2) Axe: str/cd/8ias/socket (IAS needed to hit 2.86 BP)
3) Sword: str/cd/socket

To be honest, since I was bored I decided to check that last option: the sword. I know this flies in the face of conventional wisdom and what not, but I gave it a shot.

Here are my findings:
- All of this is based on exactly the same gear but only the main-hand weapons have changed.

(All info retrieved with Weapons Master, Ruthless, WotB, Battle Rage and Overpower Killing Spree, no followers)

1) Mace:
600-1200 Damage
1.20 APS
120 Str
160 CD total (includes full emerald socket)

Attacks Per Second = 2.5056 / 2.5056
IAS Slots required to hit this break point: 7/9/9/9

Fully Buffed:
tDPS = 1319323
tDPS vs. Elites = 1767893

2) Axe
1.40 APS
600-1200 Damage
120 Str
8% IAS <---------- needed to hit the right break point
160 CD total (includes full emerald socket)

Fully Buffed:
tDPS = 1429395
tDPS vs. Elites = 1915389

Attacks Per Second = 2.86056 / 2.5056
IAS Slots required to hit this break point: 7/9/9/9

3) Sword
600-1200 Damage
1.40 APS
120 Str
160 CD total (includes full emerald socket)

Fully Buffed:
tDPS = 1439346
tDPS vs. Elites = 1928724

Attacks Per Second = 2.87 / 2.52
IAS Slots required to hit this break point: 8/9/9/9

The numbers clearly indicate that the sword is, in this case, the better option. So I got to thinking, maybe this ONLY works with this exact gear setup. Maybe it won't scale accordingly. So I checked the DPS gains and details with this exact same setup:

1) Mace
+1 Primary Attribute: 122.29
+1% Critical Hit Chance: 3236.43
+1% Critical Hit Damage: 438.33
+1% Attack Speed: 1702.9
+1% Elemental Damage: 2795.33
+1 Min. Damage: 182.6
+1 Max. Damage: 182.6

2) Axe:
+1 Primary Attribute: 130.38
+1% Critical Hit Chance: 3450.51
+1% Critical Hit Damage: 467.33
+1% Attack Speed: 1815.54
+1% Elemental Damage: 2980.23
+1 Min. Damage: 194.68
+1 Max. Damage: 194.68

3) Sword
+1 Primary Attribute: 131.88
+1% Critical Hit Chance: 3918.53
+1% Critical Hit Damage: 458.01
+1% Attack Speed: 1826.1
+1% Elemental Damage: 3014.78
+1 Min. Damage: 196.93
+1 Max. Damage: 196.93

Once again, the sword wins in every category except for Critical Hit Damage. In that case the axe wins at +467.33, but sword, at +458.01, still beats the mace at +438.33.

So at this point I became a little more interested in the sword as an option and wanted to see exactly what different damage ranges would do for each weapon.

The results (only damage range changes from the above information):
1) Mace:
@ 500-1100 Damage
Fully Buffed:
tDPS = 1301833
tDPS vs. Elites = 1610123

@ 580-1150Damage
Fully Buffed:
tDPS = 1277332
tDPS vs. Elites = 1711625

2) Axe:
@ 500-1100 Damage
Fully Buffed:
tDPS = 1301833
tDPS vs. Elites = 1744456

@ 580-1150Damage
Fully Buffed:
tDPS = 1383901
tDPS vs. Elites = 1854427

3) Sword:
@ 500-1100 Damage
Fully Buffed:
tDPS = 1310895
tDPS vs. Elites = 1756599

@ 580-1150Damage
Fully Buffed:
tDPS = 1393535
tDPS vs. Elites = 1867337

So I figured the only reason this works is because of the amount of Critical Hit Chance that I currently have (63% without Weapons Master Bonus) and I wanted to see at what point the damage begins to even out based on Critical Hit Chance.

These measurements were taken with the same stats on the weapons but with 600-1200 Damage:
- Mace needs 70.5% CC without weapons master in order to reach 1427402/1912719 (tDPS/tDPS vs. Elites)
- Axe needs 63% CC without weapons master in order to reach 1429395/1915389 (tDPS/tDPS vs. Elites)
- Sword needs 60% CC (weapons master unaffected) in order to reach 1430521/1916898 (tDPS/tDPS vs. Elites).

The biggest issue with all of this comes down to one thing ... cost. The Mace is likely the cheapest option here, the sword second and then that axe is likely to cost a whole lot more than both of them.

NOTE: For some dumb reason d3rawr won't let me link to the exact gear setup I was using. Suffice to say it involves a hypothetical non-cc Mempo and a Unity I purchased the other day. If you really want the details for it, I'd be happy to post this (this was my intention anyways)

Now to the reason for this post, I hope I haven't lost you yet. My questions:

- Why is it so common place to only accept Mace and Axe as MH weapons? The sword, in this case, seems to be the better option.
- Is this only because of the amount of Critical Hit Chance that I'm currently using? Or is there something else at play here?
- With everything I've just posted, is there some OTHER reason that using a sword is unwise? Why?
- Am I missing something? Did I just waste my time analyzing this stupid thing?
- Can anyone offer up a detailed argument that outlines at what point a sword begins to beat a mace/axe? Or how about the other way around?
- What are fair prices for these weapons? I understand the mace can be had for maybe 100-150m, the axe a lot more and the sword somewhere in the middle. Anyone have some fair estimates?

I can't possibly be the only one to have looked into this. What's the deal?
I didnt bother reading all the questions at the bottom. I stopped after the first question. 100% cost. Finding a sword with that damage range is nearly impossible. Find that damage range and str and socket and crit damage is even more impossible. If you look at all the top SNB barbs and the swords they use, it will give you an indication of how difficult it is to find such a sword.

I'm responding without searching the AH so I may be completely wrong. Of course, hypotheticals can prove why swords are better, but it may be prohibitively expensive to find a 650-1200 sword with 120str/socket/60crit.

CC has a lot to do with when a sword will pass mace/axe for tDPS. I remember making a post with a similar set of data but I used some of the top swords in a top barb's profile, not some hypothetical dream stick. I compared my MH and sword with increasing amounts of CC. Mace won until CC was maxed.
I sort of figured cost would be the major issue here. On a side note the closest thing I could find on AH at this exact moment in time is this:

596-1135
41% Damage
128 Str
43 CD
Socket

All for the low, low price of 280m. Although it is somewhat close to my "hypothetical dream stick". Fair comment though.

This was the weapon I was basing everything off. I made the assumption that my hypothetical weaponf (600-1200, 40%Dmg, 120str, 60CD, Socket) was still a reasonably possible weapon to get yet obviously more expensive than the actual sword at auction right now.

Also, the other reason I started this little adventure was because I was looking at what might be considered a next tier and I remember you saying something about: Axe w/ similar stats to what you have but with 8%ias and to be honest, this looked equally difficult to find.
Use that sword on AH in your d3rawr calcs. maybe the numbers arent as good but close. I'm guessing it will fall short of the hypothetical sword you used. 5% (1200/1135) less top end damage and 40% (60/43) less CD will be noticeable.
02/06/2013 05:30 PMPosted by PhatPhoEater
Use that sword on AH in your d3rawr calcs. maybe the numbers arent as good but close. I'm guessing it will fall short of the hypothetical sword you used. 5% (1200/1135) less top end damage and 40% (60/43) less CD will be noticeable.

The results are in with that weapon:
tDPS = 1359957
tDPS vs Elites = 1822342

Not as good as the original, that's for sure. And since the cost is 280m buy out the price isn't quite right either.

It looks like the only way to really do this properly is to do a full cost/benefit analysis and see where we end up. I assume in order to do this I would need to find a weapon of each type which in the end gives similar tDPS and tDPS vs. Elites. And then break that down by cost.

My guess is that in the end the Mace will be cheapest, followed by the Sword and then the Axe. Although it's possible I'm wrong about that assumption. It also dawns on me that this has probably already been done before.

The major issue of course is that the AH prices vary pretty dramatically from month to month so any previous analysis might be obsolete by now.
The problem with getting a sword is that you either give up weapon damage, or you blow any kind of budget you have out of the water. To get the same damage range as my 1125 dps mace, I'd be looking at a near 1300 dps sword. Those are INSANELY expensive. The reason why maces are cheaper is pretty simple: other classes don't really want maces for the most part, because they are too slow. We can get over a little bit because of this.

Also, IAS axe isn't a bad setup, but there's just not many of them. The other reason to go with a non IAS mace is that it makes your breakpoints incredibly simple, because you need the exact same IAS for MH/OH if you use mace/EF.

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