I don't get multi-platform negativity

General Discussion
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02/25/2013 04:17 PMPosted by Lylirra
The argument is that the console versions has already had an effect on the design of the game some time during development. The decision to make versions for consoles meant that several aspects of the game had to be redesigned so that it can accommodate console gamers and as such, it resulted in the game being "dumbed down".


This particular argument is certainly making its rounds. And, in most cases, it's being used to validate the viewpoints of people who disagree with how Diablo III was designed. While having those disagreements is fine, blaming console for why they even exist is a pretty poor scapegoat.

No, the PC version of Diablo III was not designed for console from the beginning. It was developed for the PC with one major goal in mind: provide players with an awesome hack-and-slash computer game that's both fun and engaging. Whether or not we achieved that goal is certainly up for debate within this community, but it doesn't make it any less real or valid. All the decisions we made when developing Diablo III -- including combat, skills, character controls, user interface, and itemization -- were ones we believed would deliver a great online experience, and the same can be said for the improvements we've made since launch. These decisions were not hindered (i.e. "dumbed down") by the development of a PlayStation version or altered to accommodate it.

For clarity, the PS3 version of Diablo III is based on the PC version and will include many of the same features as the PC game, including content all the way up to patch 1.0.7. From there, it's being tailored specifically for the PlayStation platform and will feature changes like a redesigned control scheme, camera perspective, and UI.

So, while there may be some players who don't like how Diablo III was designed for PC, the PlayStation version of the game was ultimately predicated by the PC experience (not vice-versa). If you don't like the skill system, the inclusion of the auction house, or how itemization works, that's fine and we certainly respect those opinions, but please try to attribute those disagreements to the right place. :)


Personally, I don't care that there is a console version nor if the console actually did affect the overall design of the game.

What I do care is that the game right now is a shadow of what it could have been. Lack of depth, poor itemization design, teeth-grinding end-game, no social interaction, lack of meaningful customization, randomized maps aren't all that randomized - major issues that have NOT been adequately addressed.
Hypersonic

02/25/2013 04:17 PMPosted by LylirraThe argument is that the console versions has already had an effect on the design of the game some time during development. The decision to make versions for consoles meant that several aspects of the game had to be redesigned so that it can accommodate console gamers and as such, it resulted in the game being "dumbed down".

Very simple, the d3 team are up to the standard of the Blizzard North. Trying to make too much game at one time can lead to game being not to the level of it's original... should have create D3 that compliment D2 and than when successful place it on the console....trying to eat the cake before it is fully cook will cause upset stomach.
02/25/2013 05:55 PMPosted by Lylirra
I agree, visual customization has a lot of value, people like to differentiate themselves from each other or sometimes just get bored of looking at the same thing all day every day. In fact we agree SO much that we have plans to add this feature in the future.


I posted this question on that thread but again I really would like to ask once more since you also agree that
There's a lot of power in a name.

So, what's up with our characters names?
Can't we keep our character's name in a game? Because right now, the way it's designed, I really hate playing my female characters with my *battletag underneath. Don't tell me you call that RPG...
02/25/2013 06:15 PMPosted by Dbfanatic
If any of you don't like D3 because it may or may not have been dumbed down for PS, then just GTFO and stop wasting everyones time with your crying and whining.

No one can waste their time if they don't bother reading them. It's not like someone's pointing a gun at you to read them.

02/25/2013 06:15 PMPosted by Dbfanatic
100% of you cry and cry about D3 sucking, but play it everyday.

because the more they play them, the more we found that it sucks.

02/25/2013 06:15 PMPosted by Dbfanatic
Then you all wonder why CM's and other Blizzard employees do NOT reply to you. It's because nobody likes a bunch of players that whine and cry every single day, get that through your thick skulls.

Excuse me, if you have forgotten what "CM's" are for?

02/25/2013 06:15 PMPosted by Dbfanatic
@Lylirra Why doesn't Blizzard get rid of D3 General Discussion? Have you ever compared the quality of discussions of the D3GD that of the WoWGD?

Like father like son; Like the game like the forums.
Since I wasn't privy to every individual thought the developers were thinking as they implemented specific features for the PC game, it's possible that someone at some point thought about something related to console. (Though it may just have been whether or not they remembered to plug in their PS3 controller that morning.)

Even so, to counter a metaphor with a metaphor, I think a lot of players in this discussion can't see the forest for the trees. The point is that it wasn't on the PC design team to make considerations for console. Their focus has been and continues to be the PC game. It's the job of console team to make considerations for console as they adapt the existing game for the PlayStation.


Then why introduce so many "console friendly" gameplay mechanics that PC gamers don't like? Isn't that dumbing down and considerations in regards to consoles? To name a few:

Repetitive, almost corridor like levels with no randomization?
Limit of active skills? Yeah i don't buy that "you never use more than X amount of skills in Y game", why limit me?
Limit of players - there are 5 chars and you guys only let 4 people play coop?
No stat allocation?
No custom games? Only random autojoins really?
No free roam waypoint system?

EVERYTHING i listed above benefits consoles and impacts the PC game in a bad way PC gamers dislike, yet you still want to convince us that the team was FOCUSED on the PC game... then why do we have this consolified choices in the PC game???
I had posted earlier but the system ate my post so I am trying again, I appologise If a am blunt, but my softened post no longer exists due to a forum glitch...

Here is my take on the Playstation issue. its just the latest fall guy in the fanboy quest to find out blizz's true thinking in how they made such mistakes in D3. I am a long time blizz fanboy *looks at his unopened SNES box of R&R racing.* Blizzard has a long history, and while it has made errors in the past it has historically corrected them when its brought to light.

I do feel that there is a lot of unnecessary blaming going on here and seeing issues where there are none. But there are some legitimate concerns. Some people are not evening seeing.

First and formost is itemization, The MVPs and CMs can say all they want that its fine, but it isn't if it was done well we would not be on the what 4th? 5th? more? patches where changes to the drops have been made, and yes I do count the Paragon system in that since its mainly to affect drop rates and stop MF builds, which is a red flag right there.

This is not WoW its D3 so there is no gear ballance and as such its not possible to test class ballance in real world tests. no 2 players have identical gear, even with the same builds. And its not for lack of trying. BiS is a dream that unless you are rich (gold) willing to spend real money or very lucky (which I guess falls into the rich column too) you would be very lucky to ever get a perfectly rolled item. As such PvP is always going to be unballanced, we have no definable tier gear so it is possible that someone who is paragon 100 can be beaten by a level 60 paragon 0 hero who has perfect gear because they bought the gear. this is possible. and people do get this type of gear, that is why we have the AHs.

The skill system is not something I can really find myself complaining about, so why people do is beyond me. (I would like to be able to assign stats, but if I could I'd also want more character slots.)
Thank you Lylirra. Probably the most respectful and intellectual response I have seen from any Blizzard staff member. Unlike the haters who claim these forums as their stomping ground I, as well as others are willing to give this game a chance.

Thank you for sticking with us and trying to further develop an already amazing game.
02/25/2013 05:28 PMPosted by Lylirra
We believe that many aspects of itemization in Diablo III work great, but that the system isn't perfect and can be improved. Overall, we feel like we've been making the item game better with each new patch, and definitely have plans to continue to that process. Some of the areas we'd like to focus on for the future include making Legendary items more "game changing" while still being powerful enough for players to want to equip them, introducing more meaningful gold sinks, and continuing to provide players with reliable ways to gear up outside of the Auction House.

Deductive reasoning tells me that blizzards itemization plans are just more of the same (which is not good in my opinion). You guys are going in the right direction with game changing legendarys but need to get BOLD with that next legendary patch upgrade. Think in terms of skill and build type gear... and it has to be better than your average critical hit weapons.
The fan base is rabid over this!

Why do people wonder what diablo 3 "could" of been? It is right in front of us... we can play it.
02/22/2013 02:50 AMPosted by Japhasca
Even when multiple platforms cross-communicated, such as Final Fantasy XI, none of the releases impeded any of the others.


you never played phantasy star universe did you. ...or understood that the playstation 2 architecture impeded FF11's graphical/ui engine for a long long time eh?

also, consoles getting an offline mode is a (sorry) huge slap in the face for the pc crowd who was mainly against it from the start.
So you're telling us that at no time was the console taken into consideration during the development of the PC version? I find it difficult to digest that a PC version can directly translate into a console version without compromise by mere coincidence.


Um... hello?

For clarity, the PS3 version of Diablo III is based on the PC version and will include many of the same features as the PC game, including content all the way up to patch 1.0.7. From there, it's being tailored specifically for the PlayStation platform and will feature changes like a redesigned control scheme, camera perspective, and UI.


Did you even read the blue post DIRECTLY ABOVE YOURS?
I'm glad Lylirra came in and answered some of the comments/criticisms. It's really appreciated.

#justsayin
So how much longer do you need to fix itemization? it's been around 9 months with the same spiel about the same problem that was talked about at launch.

There is a reason why these forums and others are full of viral threads because very little is being done about it, apart from these mini band-aid fixes.

I will give you everything I own on the fact that come September 2013 we will still be talking about the same issue with only a few band-aid fixes which won't do jack, while the core issue still isn't resolved.

We believe that many aspects of itemization in Diablo III work great, but that the system isn't perfect and can be improved. Overall, we feel like we've been making the item game better with each new patch, and definitely have plans to continue to that process. Some of the areas we'd like to focus on for the future include making Legendary items more "game changing" while still being powerful enough for players to want to equip them, introducing more meaningful gold sinks, and continuing to provide players with reliable ways to gear up outside of the Auction House.

I wish you could, too, but it's okay if you don't. :) The intent of my post wasn't to really to change anyone's minds, but just make sure that people have enough information to make informed decisions on their own.
A whole lot of us did not want a "hack-and-slash" game!

We wanted a D I A B L O game!


But...Diablo is a hack-and-slash game. (As is Diablo II.) :(


Very disheartening to hear this franchise get boiled down to semantics. These games are so much more than hack-and-slash.

That's like calling Warcraft 3 a sequel to Starcraft because they're both real time strategy. By that same logic, we should all go play Path of Exile. It's apparently a Diablo game.
Hack-And-Slash in general doesn't take that much work to port to a console. In case of the PS3 it'll need to be adjusted a bit in the assets department and such, but for the PS4 you can pretty much port it straight without having to do a majority of the annoying work that 7 year old hardware requires. Hell, during the Beta we already had people make 3rd party tools that allowed D3 to be played with a controller and they later refined them for launch and it works like a charm.
See here: http://youtu.be/YOsVlfzl4kA

Even the UI and entire conrol setup lends itself very much to a controller layout, as do the amount of abilities.

And seriously pretending like nobody thought about consoles is a joke. It is one of the most common thoughts you have as a developer when you think about how to monetize your product best. Diablo 3 could even be ported over to the mobile market, if the hardware could handle it decently.

Porting D3 to console was something I expected from the moment I had access to the beta. Everything about the game felt like it was already designed with that in mind and as much as Blizzard now likes to pretend it wasn't planned to calm the angry hordes, it is still very much visible for those who looked that this step was planned on quite a while ago. I was actually surprised it wasn't released directly on launch. But that's probably because of talks with Sony about a PS4 exclusive port deal.

Not like anyone can blame them. If a game works on multiple platforms, you release it to make more money. The only thing I really wanna punch somebody for is the fact that suddenly for consoles it's okay to not have always-online DRM with the addition of a offline mode.

Appearently console users are more trustworthy than a long-year community of fans on the PC. Funny.
not sure if this has been pointed out but they where recruiting "Senior Software Engineer, Console -- PlayStation 3 Specialist" around June 2011 for diablo 3.
What would be nice? Proof. I will gladly admit I was wrong as were many others if proof is offered that Blizzard didn't design this game with console in mind and dumb it down to make translation easier. Sorry, Lylirra, but your word while very good is not good enough on its own. How can we make "informed decisions" on our own if we're not truly informed as to why certain horrible design mistakes were made? Oh, I'm sorry, technically, I should just be neutral and say 'design decisions' because I cannot truly make an informed judgement since well we haven't seen proof of either side in this argument.

There is a lot of evidence though that the design of Diablo 3 was dumbed down, I knew people in beta, we're not oblivious to reality (not totally at least). Now, we're not psychic and you've given little proof on these sort of things and developers have taken very little responsibility for their mistakes on this project (often not even admitting they were mistakes)...So, naturally, people will grasp at straws and say that Diablo 3 was dumbed down for Playstation.. because well, we refuse to believe that the Diablo series we loved so much was abominated for no good reason at all... we want to believe that the move profits someone (even if it unfortunately wasn't us).. Essentially, while you're trying to convince us that console was *not* in the minds of developers when making the PC version, you're shooting yourself in the foot if you don't prove this and/or explain what really *was* going on in their minds to make them go the crazy directions they chose to go on this game.
02/25/2013 11:08 PMPosted by Xaragoth
Appearently console users are more trustworthy than a long-year community of fans on the PC. Funny.


Yeah, whether my assumptions about this end up right or wrong, this part will always confuse and infuriate me until they better explain it and even then I might be miffed still depending upon the explanation. People hack and what naught on both PC and console so why one would be considered safer than the other to such an extent as to allow offline for console but not PC is beyond me.

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