The Salvation of Diablo 3: A Guide by Gosu

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03/03/2013 01:41 AMPosted by Chillaxin
Please... Please take your own advice and use some foresight when you make your suggestions. Can you image all the rage players would have when suddenly a new tier of BOA's make their entire gear-set completely outclassed? Try to make suggestions that can benefit both veteran players and undergeared stragglers like yourself. Your suggestions are 100% biased towards helping players in your category.


I am not a big fan of bound on account for non-unique non-quest non-collector's edition items.. But, I don't get *your* particular reservations with them. Perhaps you should do as your name says and Chillax or at least better explain why this would be bad for the game.

Who cares about all this potential rage? The new items do not 100% outclass all other gears. Even were this the case I don't see why it is a problem. Anyone who was good enough at the game to already obtain nicer gear or rich enough to buy it can easily craft the new gear to keep up. I could care less if this makes previous gear useless. Oh no, this might hurt trade.. and thus the AH.. a tiny bit.. oh no.. : /

The main problem I have with the new BoA gear is that it is boring.. so while I don't care if AH junkies now have to craft gears and wave good bye to their past gear.. I do care that their new gear will all be boring and the same.. I don't mind gear getting better/more powerful/more interesting.. I just mind gear being bound of account when it is boring... bound of account gear should be unique to the character or account.. these crafted items are not that unique. Stat-wise they will all be slightly different but they will all look the same and people will all keep certain rolls.. but then, how is different than before? Mostly just the bound on account thing..

I don't know.. mostly I just think the currently Diablo dev. team likes to throw away good ideas, replace them with boring or greedy ideas.. and when they see they're miffing their customers, they insult us by insisting their ideas were good.. *eventually* they quietly admit they weren't good ideas.. then they try to distract us with weak band-aid solutions..

Neph Valor/Paragon "levels"/BoA crafted items.. really? I love torturing AH junkies but this is just a lame idea.. a lot of half good half boring ideas.. just band-aid solutions that they try to pass off as real ideas and real solutions.. so that they never need to actually come up with real solutions..

like fixing drops instead of using NV stacks.. or fixing monster densities (which pretty much means more monsters (yes even in act 3 which already has a lot)).. like allowing skills point --or--any other form of unique character creation that is somewhat permanent and rewarding of the effort to get there.. I think I liked some of what I heard for Paragon but it is all just hypothetical at this point..

...and then finally the BoA is lame they should just make better legendary items and more diverse and interesting items in general.. they should either add more in-game content and make leveling take longer and have more unique items of various levels to find or they should just make more higher level legendaries for us to find and more end game content and story one or the other please..

And as always...just my personal complaint... why do my collector's edition wings do nothing? I want to get a skill or stat boost or some unique ability or access to a level or something.. I don't just want clothes and dyes for my characters... boring ones at that too.. why can people spend money to get useful gear on AH but I spent extra on the game and just got a bunch of art.. sigh.. at least 1 useful thing in game would've been appreciated.. maybe like a teleport/ghost and/or fast run ability while on but also drains resources and/or life quickly while on.. or maybe just a stat increase and one proc effect? Something.. or perhaps lesser demons run in fear of you..
When you write it down as "Remove current game, and remake it this is the only way" you get a ban.

This actually IS remaking the game, changing every single thing game offers in current state. And I wholeheartly agree on all of those. Yet I think remaking would take less time and resources than implementing such major changes which are 100% needed to bring back people (me included).

Thx for the effort Gosu.
The reactions to this excellent OP encapsulate the entire D3 community perfectly. The sheer literalism of some of the answers reminds me of small children who haven't yet grasped the concept that sometimes people say things in an exaggerated manner. (Which is probably also the reason the devs tend to stay away from this place. Anything they say can and will be used against them.) Gosu is absolutely right in ignoring feedback from people who don't even grasp his text.

That said, the "Challenge" part irked me somewhat. Citing Belial as an example for good design doesn't really work because while the guy requires a bit more attention to character positioning and attack telegraphs than none whatsoever, he still suffers from the intentionally atrocious hit detection of the game. My point is: You can't request more challenging combat when the design philosophy is based on things like "Dodging is boring". It just won't happen.

I support the ideas concerning Itemization wholeheartedly however. That is an aspect of the game the devs can play with at this point (Post-Launch, Pre-Addon).

Will anything be done, however? I doubt it. Maybe it's just me, a jaded old cynic, but the developers seem to be riding on very high horses indeed and probably wouldn't really consider taking advice from some random scrub, no matter how large his thread or how sound his ideas.

e: Gosu, by the way, it's called "Gloom", not "Bloom". Might want to edit that. *cough*

e2: Some of the MVP answers in here are just disgraceful.
Belial still is a nice challenge. It is my favourite boss because of the skill needed to beat it. Well for most builds. In v1.0 it was a little harsh though. With most builds being one shot (when you have good gear on) by a boss is never fun. I think Belial should be a touch harder then it is now but the boss meshanics work well.

Monster affixes are not impossible to avoid. I think it's quite the opposite. Even as a melee, avoiding frozen, plagued, arcane, molten etc is very easy. Just walk out of it.


In the first 8 sentences this guy has demonstrated a complete lack of understanding both of the game and of my OP. Lets go over each one point by point. Note that I won't be doing this for anyone else, I just wanted certain people to understand why I'm not responding to them.

I ONLY used Belial as an example because of the TYPE of challenge the fight offers. I wasn't trying to compare the overall challenge with any other part of the game, nor did I ever say that the current Belial isn't fun or challenging. The point seems to have been missed here entirely.

"Monster affixes are not impossible to avoid. I think it's quite the opposite. Even as a melee, avoiding frozen, plagued, arcane, molten etc is very easy. Just walk out of it."

This is the one that did me in.

Obviously monster affixes are not IMPOSSIBLE to avoid. I said that they were too inconvenient and/or difficult to avoid consistently. Also, I never included frozen in that mix. Frozen is almost always easy to avoid and it's actually a fine example of a "fun" monster affix. The whole point of the affix explanation was to illustrate that certain challenges are destined to be circumvented with ease due to the nature of the game while other challenges, like certain aspects of the Belial encounter, are at least PARTIALLY unavoidable with gear(or WERE in vanilla inferno).

I really do appreciate the feedback of every single person here, but I just don't have the time, energy or motivation to explain to some people why they're wrong. Put at LEAST 500 hours into the game, level a character up to paragon 100 and accomplish a gear value of over 1 billion gold. After you do those things, I think you will undoubtedly understand the reason for my opinions.

I'm not saying those things are required to partake in this discussion, I'm simply saying that those of you who disagree who have not accomplished those things, you might be surprised by what you will learn.

#943
4 hours ago
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The way I understaood this was: Why avoid something when you can pop a potion, heal, defensive skill, etc., and just completely ignore the mechanic? Not only then does avoiding the mechanic become inefficient, but it also becomes pointless altogether.

I don't really understand how people can argue against it with "not everyone cares about efficiency" when that's not even really all there is to it to begin with.
took me a while to read the post of gosu and its a very good, lots of great ideas.
im 83,97 % sure that most of the idea will be in diablo 3 but when the expansion will hit.
03/03/2013 03:12 AMPosted by Philoi
I am not a big fan of bound on account for non-unique non-quest non-collector's edition items


03/03/2013 03:12 AMPosted by Philoi
at least better explain why this would be bad for the game.


You answer the question yourself:

03/03/2013 03:12 AMPosted by Philoi
makes previous gear useless.


Drothvader suggested having new BOA's with higher stat ranges than what is currently possible on gear. This would instantly make every slot that the new gear replaces turn into junk. That would be unfair and quite frankly cruel to anyone who worked hard to reach the top. It is an easy for anyone with poop gear to promote these changes.

Most players wouldn't play an action RPG if you keep raising the bar on the loot like Tiers in WoW.

It is a complete false sense of progression for everyone when you keep pulling away the carrot-on-the-stick by making new and better tiers of loot that completely replace all the work you did.
Maybe they could modify BoA items such that the BoA only activates once the item is equipped.
Helloello,I have alot That I must get off my chest.One is At first I I did not think I Would like the pro's as much as the con's about the ps3/4 game release,My biggest reason was that if they spend so much time on that then I was becoming very doubtful they would make ANY expansion packs,Which now that I know the pro's far outweigh the cons.Thus I highly doubt that there will but only be 1 exp pack,If it were to only be one then it should Try for at least these things.#More legendary items,#2 Alot more monsters there just is not enough for the people that has put alot of time,money and gold in their accounts.#3 Is if it plans to stay close the same.AT The very least make a level where there is but seems almost full of enemies for at least 30-1hr long.Running around trying to find 1 or 2 monsters just doesnt cut it.Next Runs to be put in sockets Example Emeralds,There should be added Runes just like from Diablo2,Also the few items that could be put in your stash that helps to help a little,But one of my other real main concerns is that it needs more than just 1 exp pack.at least 2.And at the very least 2 more characters.And a complete chat channel,Which would also help when the consoles go live b/c most of them wont be typing.I bought part 1 when it first came out plus all the others with exp packs.I've ENJOYED the game But.This game as of now is to small to be so repetitive.Thank you for reading my post,I would just like to see a diffrence to the game where not just me but others can enjoy as well,Not saying I dont but everything can be inmpoved,Another is the game is Almost great besides them things,But the run/walkspeed could be increase a little.More people likes a little bit more of a faster passed game then one that is super slow.If it says as fun with at least most of these buffs,I'll not have just played all ur games but the furture ones as well.1 more thing besides items,There is almost PLENTYenuff crafting items.Which does kinda suck if you cannot sell to get somthinging you'd need.And the ubers are about the rght strenght but if the exp/s came out make 1 or however many just a little tougher than them.Thanks for your time

Most players wouldn't play an action RPG if you keep raising the bar on the loot like Tiers in WoW.

It is a complete false sense of progression for everyone when you keep pulling away the carrot-on-the-stick by making new and better tiers of loot that completely replace all the work you did.


It's however the only way to combat gear inflation, especially with a stupid economy like D3's.
And when I mean stash I meant your inventory like charms,Also I get 20x more legends etc from regular monsters which definatly is not right!All and all the game is Really great but will get boring so fast with as small and repetitive as the game is,Oh glad I forgot,Just 4 peeps in 1 game at a time,I was expecting at LEAST 6!!! Lmao,Thankz !
The people suggesting more BoA aren't smart enough to know what they are asking for.

Within 2 days of 1.07 release I crafted gloves and shoulder both far better than any drop I have found in 1200+ hours of playing. Drops inthe crafting slots might as well no longer exist. Basically, giving BoA to all slots would remove the need to ever pick up and ID a drop again.

That would change Diablo from the ultimate Item Hunt to a gigantic exercize in gathering crafting materials. No thanks,
03/03/2013 06:31 AMPosted by ProPain
And when I mean stash I meant your inventory like charms,Also I get 20x more legends etc from regular monsters which definatly is not right!All and all the game is Really great but will get boring so fast with as small and repetitive as the game is,Oh glad I forgot,Just 4 peeps in 1 game at a time,I was expecting at LEAST 6!!! Lmao,Thankz !


They need to tone down the animations for many of the skills first. Imagine if 6 DH are all using bola shot at the same time... I think I'll go blind.

They need to change Inferno such that the content is different from the main content, playing through the game 3 times is more than enough to get the story into our heads.
This is such an amazing post by Gosu, hitting so many issues with D3 accurately. With Travis's positive response to this thread, hopefully we get to see some future changes. It almost pains me to be doing this, but...

I’m fairly certain that Blizzard is unwilling to accept that SO many skills are nowhere near what they should be. It is for this reason, among others, that a significant number of changes to skills have not reflected an understanding of what makes a skill fun and/or good. I believe that the above, suggested change to shadow power has not occurred because Blizzard is unwilling to accept that so many other skills are in such a poor place. How many times since release has Blizzard buffed skills only to see their use remain incredibly low? I’m sorry, but I don’t think that the people behind skills are very good at their jobs. They don’t seem to have an understanding of how to properly balance skills or make them fun, awesome, unique and appealing.


Remember that PR mistake by Lylirra a while back? "Blizzard decides what's fun". Its still stuck to me all this time. From release me and my friends have been encountering problems after problems after problems, and wondering how could anyone at Blizzard could conceivably think that this is fun? When that hit.... well, questions answered.

For some impossible reason, the state of skills on release (and shortly) were such that I could not help but wonder; "which weirdo hiding in some basement in the North Pole" designed these skills and game, and how could they have possibly screwed up a game that had a fairly (some would say extremely) successful time and thus providing the development team some examples of what to do and what not to and not to mention, had years to do it. Some of the skills and runes are still so badly designed (and hotfixed later) they still suck, so much that even the unruned version of the skill outperforms it. One example of this would be Elemental Arrow - Nether Tentacles. Another example would arguably by Smoke Screen, starting out a very powerful skill, but very prone to abuse which led to nerfing the skill by 50% in duration, thus leaving the ability almost useless until recently where DHs need to survive that 1-2 sec gap between casting and detonation of Bola Shot and Spike Trap.
+1 Amazing post.

I enjoyed reading ur thoughts.

I wish to read some of this stuff again in further patch notes!
I enjoyed your post Gosu. While I don't necessarily agree with every solution you've posed (some would require rebooting the game from scratch), it was very well thought out and very detailed.
The fact that it was allowed to go beyond the usual post limits means that Blizzard probably agrees with you. :)
I read your guide a few days ago and you have alot of excellent ideas! I am so glad a blue responded agreeing with you too! I am really hoping patch 1.08 takes at least 20% of your suggestions into account. We need a big improvement in the item system so hunting for loot will become fun again. We also need to see all the weak skills/passives buffed, the medium ones left alone and the most popular ones, such as OWE for monks and ruthless for barbs nerfed. We also need players to have the option of individually adjusting monster dps and HP because right now, monsters don't do enough damage, they just have too much HP.
Well, it was a long read... You have my vote, Sir

I am surprised you left two coolest [and totally worthless] barbarian skills: Call of The Ancient and Earthquake...

But I want to ask about one itemization thing bugging me from the release. Why there is no reward for completaing a full set of items? If I choose to use a inferior set 2H weapon instead of two socketed 1H rares, why I am punished [or not rewarded at least]?
The shoul bbe some incentive to wear full sets, at least visual ones. I want to look really cool if I wear a completed full set.

I do not want to look like a hater, but some thing WERE better in D2 [and manual stat/skill distribution was not one of them]. For example sets. There was two main points that are worse in D3 than in D2 [about sets]

* In D2 player was rewarded for wearing a full set. Both in power and looks. It is no difficult to give sets some unique reward for completing one. A simple [definitely not best or balanced] idea for such quality
WD set: Big ghostly vestige hovering above player. When player is hit/attacks/whatever visage attack enemies/heals player/whatever
* In D2 each set had a partial set bonus. That means apart of general set bonus each part got a separate bonus when used with other set pieces.

Another thing worth checking
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/35494-new-battlenet-mockup/
Thankyou to the OP for the work you put in and thankyou to Travis Day for your detailed and encouraging response.

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