Fast farming vids and theorycrafting

Barbarian
Prev 1 2 3 4 12 Next
So I think I found a way to test Brawler and Beserker Rage and some really interesting info if you'll bear with me here....

My normal skill set is Wayneold's: Brawler, Weapon Master, Ruthless for passives and Rend Lacerate,WW,Sprint RLtW,OPKS, WotB actives.

I swapped out Berserker Rage for Weapon Master and Revenge Dish Served Cold for the loss in Crit replacing Rend. I was pretty sure the loss in crit would hurt my ability to keep WotB up, thats why I swapped out Rend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=behb8Eh-rPo&feature=youtu.be

In the video you will see my inv open. I fought 5 elites in VotA MP10 and the following DPS values indicate what skills are active.

Base with no buffs other than enchantress = 139k (you won't see this, just a reference)

262 = WotB, OPKS

294 = WotB, OPKS, RevDC (fully buffed with no passives)

358 = Berserker Rage

371 = Brawler

435 = Both

Any other value I have most likely lost RevDC (10% cirt) but gained either passive. I can look closer if we want to later and determine what exactly is going on.

This is my first time running this build but the elites went down faster than I thought. The following are the times each elite so you can skip around.

17 - 45

56 - 117

247 - 322

336 - 430

459 - 549

I haven't looked to close yet but I am seeing a lot more 358 than I thought I would. I am thinking at some point as our gear progresses we will eventually want to rethink the standard passives? What you guys thinking?
@ Dep

I like your style....putting both passives on and comparing the number of times they each activate on the exact same run is a great way to tell which one has the greater uptime overall...

The only part that I am concerned about is you switching out Rend for Revenge (which is Best Served Cold, but whatever). Reason being that Revenge doesn't cost fury to cast, procs Into the Fray at a 33% coefficient and the 10% extra crit contributes quite a bit to increased fury generation....which means I think you had a lot more topped out fury than you would if you had Rend in your build, which uses fury, and gives no crit bonus.

To be honest with you, I think if you used Weapon Master, Berzerker Rage, and Brawler as your passives you could still use Rend in your build, as well as OP:KS.

Obviously it is not the ideal farming setup as stated above because you lose crit % and crit dmg....but I think for the purpose of testing it would work out a lot better.
Gonna take a lil break and come back to it. I'll try and leave rend in the mix and see how it plays. I wasn't thinking about the fury cost of rend and how that might affect things. I'm really not very good with math or testing in general but this is kinda fun. Thanks for the input...

Edit: Would be nice to see if the IK 5 piece makes Berserker proc more often, you know anyone with a full IK set Wayne? :p
I gave this another shot. 10% crit didn't hurt as bad I thought it would. Same concept as before only as Wayneold pointed out I gave it a go just dropping Weapon Master for Berseker Rage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1yN2nj0lWo&feature=youtu.be

The numbers:

262 = WotB + OPKS (Fully buffed w/o either passive)

319 = Berserker

331 = Brawler

383 = Both

Elite fight times so you can skip through

49-126
240-304
330-409
436-532
555-640
658-727

Not sure what to make of this yet, not drawing any conclusions untill I get a larger sample and make sure I factor in for any variables I might have missed. I think this is a good start though. Maybe someone with a higher crit chance could give it a go? I was running 62% in this vid and usually run 72%.
@ nubtro.

Just wondering though when you activate WW channeling does it do a snapshot of the stats at the point in time? As in. Is there a continuous calculation of WW's damage? Because I only activate WW while I'm in a mob cluster and I use the mobility to ensure my RLTW casts are whilst I'm surrounded.
Pssst...don´t ask me such questions or other classes will then ask for nerfs, if you know what I mean.

:p
03/04/2013 04:47 AMPosted by Nubtro
Pssst...don´t ask me such questions or other classes will then ask for nerfs, if you know what I mean.


LOL, i know you're keeping mum a lot of useful infos on the barb game mechanics from community which might be detrimental to the class as a whole, so i respect your decision not to answer Uber's ???. keep it to yourself please.
Who would have thought this actually turning into a good thread with alot of info :)
I should probably start another with this but I'm not haha. Like Detox said above this thread is getting some good mileage imo, I certainly learned a lot and am questioning everything now.

I never did understand how the Rend Rune Bloodbath worked so I made a video to pick it apart. I searched the google and the forums but couldn't get the answers I was looking for. I always had heard that Rend could not stack and it doesn't but the Bloodbath effect appears to.

I set up my build to be defensive and the only damage numbers would be Rend with Bloodbath. I pasued the video periodically to see what exactly happened when a mob died. It appears to me that when a mob dies any mob within 10 yards is hit with the Bloodbath efffect and this is added on to the Rend damage and will stack on top of it.

I'm not sure if this is old news but I couldn't find it anywhere. I'm curious to see if It can crit and if stacking Bloodbath on Elites has the potential to outperform Lacerate.


I set up my build to be defensive and the only damage numbers would be Rend with Bloodbath. I pasued the video periodically to see what exactly happened when a mob died. It appears to me that when a mob dies any mob within 10 yards is hit with the Bloodbath efffect and this is added on to the Rend damage and will stack on top of it.

I'm not sure if this is old news but I couldn't find it anywhere. I'm curious to see if It can crit and if stacking Bloodbath on Elites has the potential to outperform Lacerate.

That sounds pretty crazy and I definitely wouldn't have expected it. Sounds like there's potential to do a ridiculous amount of damage in a room cluttered with trash. Can a bleed triggered from bloodbath trigger another bleed from bloodbath if a mob dies from it?
@Silverfire

No, it looks like each Bloodbath hit runs independently of Rend and other Bloodbath hits. It can crit but can not trigger itself. You will only ever see one bleed damage number the value just changes based on who has died while bleeding within 10 yards and if Rend is active on the target.

I'm still looking at it, I keep running into vortex and knockback elites, fine while farming but a pain in the !@# id you wanna sit still and test something.
Alright, so for all the researchers that are in this topic we still have to answer some questions:

-In a standard farming run with both WW and HoTA which passive procs more often overall, Berzerker Rage, or Brawler?

I think Dep's way of having both passives on and observing how much uptime there is for each one on the exact same run is a great way to do this....any other ideas?

-Does Berzerker Rage or Brawler give snapshot damage?

-What are the mechanics of Rend: Bloodbath? If it can crit, does it proc Into the Fray? Can it stack? If it does stack, how does the re-apply work? Does it just reset the 5 second timer at the same damage? (if it does....that could be an amazing find for this build, kudos to you Dep)

I'm really disappointed I can't assist in the testing....but I hope we get to learn some things....
Gonna try and tackle Bloodbath first.

I have on video Bloodbath proccing the fear from Echoing Fury. This leads me to believe that the Bloodbath DoT does have a proc coefficient. Everywhere I look tables list Bloodbath's proc coefficient as .33. Is it possible to proc the EC Fear and not Into the Fray?
Rend itself proc's a 33% coefficient on the initial tick only...I wonder if Bloodbath does as well.
I´ve kept track of my MP10 VotA elite pack kill times with WW+RLTW+OPKS+Rend with this gear

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Nubtro-2147/hero/840269

As you can see, I can´t use Berserker Rage/Brawler yet as the third passive because I need Bloodthirst (with an Ik belt I lose the breakpoint) or else I die within seconds with my 411 allres. I run no generator 17 ticks with WotB (14 ticks without) and learned to manage my fury as efficient as possible and 17 ticks is enough for me, 18 ticks would require two more IAS slots which I can´t afford.

ARCHER
- yellow 35,30,35,24,30,23,48,33,27,31-32,26,38,40 (32.29 avg)
- blue 29,33,22,23,30,24,23,26,30,22-18,23,(15),25,15,17,20,23,28,20-24 (23.33 avg)
GUARDIAN
- yellow 27,52,36,28,32,22,24 (31.57 avg)
- blue 35,42,20,24,23,24,20 (26.86 avg)
MAGEWRAITH
- yellow 40,36,46,47,57,39,38 (43.28 avg)
- blue 32,27,32,24,24,35,(24),29,33,37-29 (29.64 avg)
WARRIOR
- yellow 27,35,38,33 (33.25 avg)
- blue 23,32,19,20,19,25,20 (22.57 avg)
COPPERFANG LURKER
- yellow 30,37,31,31,30 (31.8 avg)
- blue 25,20,21,26,23,18,19,20,17,20-17 (20.55 avg)

Values in brackets () were achieved with a Frenzy shrine. I think one yellow archer pack (among the last listed) was done without WotB, it was active against all others.

unique packs total: 1268 sec / 37 packs = 34.27 sec/pack
champion packs total: 1388 sec / 57 packs = 24.35 sec/pack
all packs total: 2656 sec / 94 packs = 28.25 sec/pack

Note that I can´t often WW on top of the packs 100% of the time because certain packs (magewraiths) and affixes (reflect) hurt me like crazy forcing me to do wider circles at times or simply get out of there for a couple of seconds until I´m back at full health thanks to Blood Lust or until RD wears off on a few monsters.

Magewraiths are by far the most dangerous packs in VotA for me, their WW cuts my health like butter and they also have the highest HP, thus the longest kill-times. You might notice that champ packs generally fall faster than unique packs as this build is heavy AoE with no true single target skill, but WW+3tornadoes+Rend on top of the yellow monster is still solid single target damage output. I´d imagine a HotA build would kill yellow packs faster than blue ones because blues may spread out (guardians and archers don´t always stick together).

My times can´t compare to the likes of det0x and Wayne with their close to godly gear but I don ´t feel like being that far behind. For comparison, my displayed (inventory) damage when fully buffed is 392K (det0x´s in the video was like 811K when BR activated).

------
As for the other discussion.

1. Not sure if you guys understood my answer to Uberjager´s "WW snapshot" question but I implied it is "yes".

2. Bloodbath seems cool on paper but the bleed is weak (20% per second) and Rend already kills trash pretty easily. For exp runs, Ravage is better. For general farming, Blood Lust (survivability) or Lacerate (highest damage vs packs) are superior.

3. Berserker Rage vs Brawler uptime tests. The only way these can be accurate for a person is by equipping a crit shield over Weapons Master or else you´ll generate significantly less fury and Berserker Rage will be activated less. Ideally people should test their average kill times against elite packs with each passive. The more data the better as affix combinations and monster types play a big role in which passive is more likely to be active.

That being said, I haven´t tested the Brawler mechanics yet but I don´t see a reason why it would work much differently than Berserker Rage with the 45 frame duration.
It does crit and they seem to overlap. Only one number is shown but it changes based as new BB or Rend hits as they land and fall off. Also what can be confusing, at least to me, is when a mob dies the full tick isn't shown only the mobs remaining health.

Gonna toss up a very short video here in a sec that we can look through, I think it shows what I'm talking about fairly clearly, just takes time to pick through and do a little math.

Skip to 8 seconds for the first Rend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqEv8tLZNAE&feature=youtu.be
I gotta head in to work, I drive today so won't have much time to dig through this.

@Nubtro thanks for the info, at a glance you have some really fast times considering your gear. I'd like to mess around with Bloodbath a little more before I say Lacerate is a for sure winner. I'm thinking if you can blow up a ton of trash with 10 yards of an Elite it has the potential to do some really heavy damage. I have a feeling though that it looks good on paper like you said but in practive Lacerate will win out with consistancy.

My times can´t compare to the likes of det0x and Wayne with their close to godly gear but I don ´t feel like being that far behind. For comparison, my displayed (inventory) damage when fully buffed is 392K (det0x´s in the video was like 811K when BR activated).


Your times are really impressive with your gear, especially since you're not even using berserker rage, brawler, or lacerate. Actually I'm really surprised you can even survive in MP10 with that gear...I think I'd get slaughtered in seconds heh.

Need to get that software wayne recommends and start doing some recording myself...I think I'd be happy if I could average under 40s.

How important do you think your bonuses to ww crit chance are?
@Nubtro thanks again for the info....I got your implication about Berzerker Rage on snapshot....do we think it's safe to assume Brawler shares the same mechanics across the board? It seems as though nobody is really uncomfortable with that notion, eh?

@Dep thanks for the continued research!

03/05/2013 10:22 AMPosted by silverfire
Need to get that software wayne recommends and start doing some recording myself...I think I'd be happy if I could average under 40s.


You can do 40 seconds....I averaged 40 seconds when I had 130k DPS and no EHP boosters for my challenge video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz8Uj5wzoCY

You should blow that away.
Yep WW snapshots buffs and keeps them as long as you channel it. There, I said it out loud. :)

Your times are really impressive with your gear, especially since you're not even using berserker rage, brawler, or lacerate. Actually I'm really surprised you can even survive in MP10 with that gear...I think I'd get slaughtered in seconds heh.

Need to get that software wayne recommends and start doing some recording myself...I think I'd be happy if I could average under 40s.

How important do you think your bonuses to ww crit chance are?


1. Thanks. Yeah even if I don´t have the very best gear yet, the damage output of 4 offensive active skills is insane. I don´t think I would be able to achieve such times and actually survive with any other build. I can´t HotA high MP with this gear, that´s for sure.

It´s actually fun like this, I die when I misplay. For example if I go in the middle of 3 spinning magewraiths and stay there too long (more than a second) I´m gone. It´s not possible without a) LS skorn or b) Bloodthrist/IK belt and Blood Lust as I tested various combinations (the list is on the previous page).

3% LS + Blood Lust with a Skorn and a bit of caution works.

2. You don´t need to record stuff to get the times. I just took my digital alarm clock (any non-pc clock/watch will do), put it in front (below) the screen and looked at the seconds counter upon elite pack encounter and afterwards the moment the leader (yellow) or the whole pack (blue) died. Then just pause the game and write down how long it took.

3. The crit chance bonus from SoJ definitely helps. With the Skorn I´m currently using (that dropped for me), I get a total 10% more WW crit chance which is really good (88% total on WW) and it helps a lot with fury generation at 17 ticks, not to mention it´s a hidden damage boost with such a high crit damage value (+543%).

EDIT: About Brawler, I´m wondering how I´d test it, that´s the problem I have hmm. Maybe I´ll try something like Leap out after the initial activation and count the frames until it wore off...I´ll try.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum