ShockNadoShards(SNS), a CM/WW build [guide]P2

Wizard
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@change

Thanks for the correction on the Force/Will.

I guess I could mention the pants, but as this is kind of a beginners guide, I don't think rare pants are a great idea. Not too many people wear them, though they can and do have their place. I think the guide is long enough, lol. I'm thinking of going in and hacking some stuff out to streamline it. We'll see!

@Rune

Thanks for checking the math so closely. Though, Boozor is correct. A calculator is really your friend when doing these breakpoint calculations. I guess I could mention that in the guide, but, as I said above, I can only add so much to the guide before it gets too unwieldy.

If there's any doubt, just check the AH for 1.77, 1.78, and 1.79 Chant Wills. There's a HUGE jump in price between 1.77 and 1.78/1.79 just because of this reason. Its only a very marginal DPS increase (the extra 1% IAS) but it allows the gear flexibility I mention when hitting the breakpoint.
i made some adjustments to my wizard, i seem to be handling MP6 without much issue. I was looking to add an all resist witching hour and swap out my storm crow with one that has CC. Does that make sense, or should i look to upgrade elsewhere?
hey so i'm just wondering what the consensus is on the 3.01+ breakpoints, i'm not hearing alot about that, are we mostly abandoning this breakpoint level due to guaranteed breaks in our lock from ubers and such?

is it simply not worth going that far with an ias chants wand and dropping all that dps from a socketed or cd wand with the game as it is now?

i always maintained that ias and cc were the goal and the idea in my head was 3.01+aps with 55-60+cc (not that i have ever reached such heights) for total superiority regardless of freeze breaking mechanics and what have you. Is this idea simply wasted now give the above questions and it's now time for cm wizards to look towards a more mostest aps and cc with higher cd priorities?
Well, 3.01 hasn't been abandoned.....its just very difficult to add DPS while at 3.01. When I go from 2.73 to 3.01 my DPS drops from 135k down to 90k-something. Most people stick to 2.73 for that reason. The higher breakpoint is still useful for Ubers, especially when doing a carry (though Siege breaks CC, you can run the whole thing without him picking you up (the CM wiz, that is) if you use the right technique). Being at the higher breakpoint for farming allows better freeze (so less enemy attacks get off (less molten, less plagued, less arcane) and also guarantees better LoH return (I've seen between 10 and 30% better return stated in the forums)). This allows you to skimp a little on your mitigation since your crowd control is a little better.

It also depends on your ping. If you are over 150 or so, then the key strokes aren't registered fast enough by the servers, and FN doesn't fire off quickly enough to make 3.01 worthwhile. Some people drop to 2.73 simply for this reason.

Here are a few forum contributors that run at 3.01. Some do it with OS Will and the other IAS....(though Aimless is running some sort of metoer build right now...check him out later).

Boozor: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Boozor-1433/hero/14262855
Aimless: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Aimless-1700/hero/10258657
Addictman: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Addictman-1837/hero/6657547
^yeah if you have over 200 ping, 3.01 is no good. I tested 3.01 three times, each time with significantly better gear. And I couldn't permafreeze with DF up and 10+ enemies around. So 3.01 is only good for those with great latency, otherwise 2.73 is better because you have higher multiplier and higher DPS with it.
yeah ping is a major factor for me when thinking of future gears, i currently sit on 250-300 which is actually pretty good for australia but it has a significant impact on the game which is why i set my eyes on 3.01, i figure that with a higher breakpoint and the latency then i'm effectively at 2.73 or even 2.5 despite paper aps showing 3.01.

Basically i look to compensate for lag via high aps and cc. There was a great thread about the impact of ping on sns somewhere i'm wondering if it might be an idea to put it in your op for reference?
i will hunt around for it in the morning tho as i'm starting to yawn which means sleep time lol.

edit: ahh cheerz novice, so it sounds like 3.01 with bad ping doesn't make up for the losses in refresh rates. Can anyone confirm more on this?
Hiya Pie...

Guess who's back. Rather than ask you a blanket "what else can I do" noob question, I was going to ask you some more directed questions to make your life a bit easier.

1) Should I invest in an Armor/AR witching hour? Do you think it would be worth it for me?

2) I feel like my wiz is pretty decent right now. I've been farming MP7 and usually with no issues. How far do you think I could take this set of gear I have now? Is it feasible for me to go into higher MPs? I know this is subjective but wanted your opinion.

3) What would be potential next steps for me? I am crafting ammys like a mad man (although i am a little weary of only running with 711 LoH (without blackthorn). I could also look for a trithorn neck but the cheapest one i saw was 800 mil so that might be out of the question. Better bracers maybe...do you see anything else that I could upgrade that would show me a performance or DPS improvement?

Thank you for all of your help. Words cannot express my gratitude.
@pri Looking great!

1) Nah....You're fine armor wise. 4775 Armor and 743 AR is pretty respectable. Yeah, I guess 5k/800 would be better, but I'd be tempted to add in a little more AR before Armor. Right now, I have comic levels of Armor (5502!) - Boozor told me essentially to "knock it off" and ditch some armor and add AR (to get to 800). It was pretty easy to stack armor on everything....it gives me to flexibility to add CD/INT/VIT to any piece in exchange for armor and still be in a really nice place (now that I have the gold to work with).

I guess my AR evolution was:
a) tons of armor (5500) and little AR (500) [since its expensive]
b) tons of armor (5500) and good AR (750) [since I could begin to afford it]
c) good armor (4800)....and better AR (800) [which is hopefully what I will be evolving to in the next week or so]

Alot of armor can definitely make up for inadequate AR...but only to a point. MP's will catch up to you eventually. The ground effects seem to be what hurts most.

2) You definitely have enough DPS to carry higher Mp's. I've been doing MP 6 and 7 with similar mitigation but only 135k DPS. And your DPS is well above that. Farming MP10 might still be a little bit of a chore, but 8 and 9 ought to be fine.

3) You're missing out on 200 CD between your gloves, OH ring, and ammy. That's the downfall to the Cross, is it sucks for DPS until you get a Tricross....which are expensive. You're gonna need to craft a trifecta ammy with at least 200 LoH to make it work. Another option is to replace your INT/STR taskers with CD ones. That'll be an easy 10k DPS upgrade for 40 CD.

You're welcome! Good work.
@dude

You're kind of in a tight situation....I cant remember exactly what your old gear was, though remember that you had a 6 CC ring...and I suggested 4.5 or 5 instead and to stay at 47-48CC...but you went for 4 CC instead (and lost CC elsewhere as well?)...leaving you at 44 CC overall. Hopefully I didn't dish out inappropriate advice!

Adding in a storm crow is the ultimate answer (for 4+ CC)...but you'll need to replace the All res somewhere. I think you'd be best served by going with a BT pants with all res and armor. They're really pretty economical for both AR and armor (even if it means ditching the extra INT you have there). Between your chest and pants you only have 200 armor and 0 all res combined. I know its expensive to add it in (esp the all res on chest) but that's where you need to spend in the future. As you add in all res there, you can get it off of your helm, rings, gloves, and/or ammy and add in CD (or whatever). But you need to get some AR and armor on there eventually.
Might be worthwhile adding Zuni gear to the "Advanced and End Game Item" section.
@Ossian.....feel like writing up a few sentences? I know Boozor uses it sometime on entry level gear (since AR and Armor on Tal's is expensive) but I don't have much experience with Zuni on end-game gear....presumably as a 2-set pice with either Pox or Boots.
Let me put something together. I'm in the midst of shifting to three-piece, actually.
yeah...just saw that. Thanks Ossian!
Pie...I've upgraded my gear and right now I feel kinda lost as to what my next step should be. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the thread btw it's been extremely helpful.
03/14/2013 12:12 PMPosted by PieHole
I don't have much experience with Zuni on end-game gear....presumably as a 2-set pice with either Pox or Boots.


I think it is the end game gear for 2.74 if you go zuni chest and zuni tri pox (Darshu/Zhouxin). for 3.01, you still have to depend on Tal Rasha chest (e.g. Charlatan, Addicted). I think Boozor is a different story. He somehow incorporated Zuni pox and boots and still was able to maintain 3.01 but he carefully crafted his toon. Extremely difficult to establish b/c you really have to find the right items and many many adjustments.
@Redmond

There are a bunch of little things to do. I would like to see a little more armor and all res. 4500/750 is a good place to be. I'll help as you get to the higher MP's.

Easy place to pick up 50 armor is your boots. Same stats with 600+ armor should be less than 10 or 12M. Pants have an empty stat (poison resist)...that should be either armor or perhaps VIT (which can roll up to 300, I believe. This would results in a corresponding swap of VIT for INT gems in your chest).

I'd keep rolling bracers as well. Not bad (actually, very similar to mine except I have armor and you have STR), but more CC would be nice...and while STR=armor....armor would be better because that will roll much higher. Or the cold resist could split main stat and go INT/STR or INT/VIT. I'm very happy with mine....but might start rolling them again (basically, the same cold resist issue as yours!)

As you work out your VIT issues, you could also drop VIT from your gloves and add in some CD...to help with DPS. Upgrading to an 1150 DPS/1.78 will is a 150M proposition....it'd also be nice to do a 1.79 Will (so you could use an 8 IAS item instead of 9)....but you'd probably spend 100M to get a 1.79 with not even 1100 DPS.
To add to what you guys have said.

I would never advocate Zuni boots + pox for CM build until you can have substantial amount of CC % without the nats boot set already.

This means unbuffed CC.

I was hesistant to go with Zuni boots but because I felt my breakpoint was higher and that I had stronger enough base CC from my other that I could pull it off. Currently at 55%. It feels OKAY. Not my usual 62% with the nats set. But For the DPS I can afford the slight windup hestitation. Even with my 60-70MS Ping, i notice even the slightest change from CC and APS. I can't attest to higher ping though, have no experience it must be awful though.

__________________
Actually Boozer it's opposite. With low ping you are very sensitive to the slightest gear change because everything works like it should: freezelock, windup, multiplier, etc on the other hand with ping like mine, I need a real substantial change to feel the difference, for example breakpoint, or + / - 3 Apoc. Slight changes like 3-4 CC or 5k DPS don't make any difference for me so to say.

However 7 CC loss is substantial for any latency and it's no surprise you feel it tougher. The unique case is 2.73 vs 3.01, I feel nearly no improvement with 3.01 except a bit more LoH. But 2.73 vs 2.51 is quite huge otoh, windup is significantly slower and AP return is just terrible.

Latency is very funny for SNS.
I always sit at about 115 ping. I guess its not bad....can't really say. I can easily feel the difference between 2.73 and 3.01 (and under 2.73 (when I misequip my gear)).

wrt Zuni and Nats set....what about both? For mid-gear (like myself) or end-gear:
  • Zuni set - for the 130 INT bonus (not to mention, all the AR, amor, INT/VIT you can pack on, as opposed to Tal's. Yeah, tripox is a brick wall....so you'd have to do IAS and live with lower CC. And add Lacunis or trifecta ammy to pick up the lost IAS)
  • Nats set - for the 7 CC set bonus
  • I always sit at about 115 ping. I guess its not bad....can't really say. I can easily feel the difference between 2.73 and 3.01 (and under 2.73 (when I misequip my gear)).

    wrt Zuni and Nats set....what about both? For mid-gear (like myself) or end-gear:
  • Zuni set - for the 130 INT bonus (not to mention, all the AR, amor, INT/VIT you can pack on, as opposed to Tal's. Yeah, tripox is a brick wall....so you'd have to do IAS/CC and live with it. And add Lacunis or trifecta ammy to pick up the lost IAS)
  • Nats set - for the 7 CC set bonus


  • I ALWAYS use nats + zuni set on all my gear builds. It is ridiculously good combination as long as its @ 2.73. With budget in mind tals armor/ar or both is very expensive and blows most entry wizards away so Zuni chest is superior except for the IAS bonus ofc. This just means use of lacunis or trifecta ammy (expensive for useful one).

    For 3.0 the budget will be much larger to achieve using both sets but it would also be ideal for this with a IAS wand as well.

    the only knock is that with smaller budgets you cant afford CC on either the pox or reflection since its so expensive to have with IAS. However I have been noticing drops in CC reflections (bottom tier ones) so it makes it much more viable for a 300-500m budget wizard nowadays.

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