What made the community so Sour?

General Discussion
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Diablo 2's community was always just as bad if not worse given that bots and the like were more abundant. It's only natural that mentality would bleed into Diablo 3 since many of us come from that game.

IMO it has very little to do with the games strengths and flaws of the game itself but rather peoples desire to get ahead in the game even at the expense of others.
03/30/2013 06:50 PMPosted by babinro
IMO it has very little to do with the games strengths and flaws of the game itself but rather peoples desire to get ahead in the game even at the expense of others.


take a look at games like Guild Wars 2...it had huge botting issues when the game launched. much bigger botting issues than even D3. yet the game's forums were largely more positive than D3's.

I think the real reason is not only because of the flaws in D3 but the fact that those flaws were committed by a reputable company.
Starcraft has an amazing forums, just like the game. When you stay true to the fanbase & the label, the forums are rather pleasant.


I think that is partially true, but does not explain the toxicity that has existed on these forums even before release. This particular fanbase is full of whiners and complainers. It is a bleed over from d2.

And for good games being good fanbase? play LoL sometime. One of the most toxic playerbases you can find (although they have improved a lot over the last couple months)

D3 is a good game, the problem is the past predecessors set the bar so high. Rarely ever is a sequel as good as the original. D2 was a rarity in that. The success of D1 and D2 unreasonable expectations doomed this community regardless of how good it would be. At least D3 wasn't as bad as the sequels to the Star Wars and Indiana Jones movies......

I love how most of the whining on here is about things that were just as bad if not worse in D2.
--Don't like AH or RMAH? Guess what they existed for most serious gamers in d2, except spread over many other sites. At least with D3 you eliminate the sketchy sites.
--Don't like all the bugs.....omg do not even get my started on some of the bugs d2 went through until it became what it finally was. D3 has one of the most responsive patchings of any game this type. WAY more than d2 ever was. How long did it take them to fix charge lock? A couple months before d3 came out....
--Don't like the itemization? Oh wait d3 does really suck at that...
--Server crashes killing HC chars? Do people not remember the black wall of death?

My point is, yes there are some flaws, but the majority of whining on here is about things that existed with d2 and are in better situation than they were in d2. The best part is that whenever blizz caves in and gives the playerbase what everyone is calling for, then people still whine.

I think the #1 reason why it is so toxic is that Blizz tried to listen to the people instead of just running it the way they did d2 and doing whatever the hell they wanted to.
They will be sour until they can faceroll the game in mp10 without having to play. Then we have them sour because they want to make more money for playing a game than working a job.
If you play for fun you can have fun. If you play for $$ you will never be happy.


not true facerolling the game on mp10 would be a good goal however most people dont care very much mp5 ... mp10 who cares, if I could faceroll mp10 I would hardly play anymore if at all.

make money? most people who bought the game including myself probably had no intention of making any money from playing D3 yet the only thing in the game I found mildly fun was leveling from 1-60.

03/30/2013 06:50 PMPosted by babinro
Diablo 2's community was always just as bad if not worse given that bots and the like were more abundant. It's only natural that mentality would bleed into Diablo 3 since many of us come from that game.


was it? I wouldnt have noticed because in the 10 years I spent playing D2 enjoying every bit of it I never even considered visiting any D2 forum ever.

also botting is at least 10 times more abundant in D3 maybe even 100 times.

also botting is at least 10 times more abundant in D3 maybe even 100 times.


You didn't notice botting in d2 but you think so in d3? Botting and duping was horrible in d2. If there is more botting in d3 it would be just because there are more people playing. Just because you didn't visit any d2 forum doesn't mean it didn't exist. Almost every person I knew in d2 botted to some degree. Most I have met do not in d3 unless you count multiboxing. Botting and duping in d3 seems mostly focused on the gold economy instead of items and runes.

Botting in both games is a lotm, I will say though there is not really a way to measure one against the other. But if you have played any other type of accumulation game, you would know that this is not a problem that only Diablo 3 faces.
First of all even though this game needs more content, because the endgame is not there yet. The devs know that, they know that a player that plays D3 does not think about answering the question. What do I want to do today? It is usually oh well it is another day of doing act 3 farming.

But I still do not think that it needs updates like MMO's regardless of the amount of money Blizz makes. Blizz just needs to put in the right amount of choices that are fun things to do with your level 60's. Even make the leveling process a little more interesting would help out a lot.

I can tell you that there are many specs for all classes. Sure they are not the most efficient farming specs. But who cares if you are playing one of those for fun specs. Ones that you just want to use to destroy enemy mobs with it. And each does play differently. I know that there are barbarian specs that do play differently. Sure they do not gear any differently. But that will no doubt be changing in time.

If you think that releasing D3 on console made players mad. Then how dare David Brevik even think about releasing D1 on the original PlayStation. I mean that made a lot of D1 players mad. They probably felt like unpaid beta testers for the PlayStation version right. People you need to grow up if this is making your mad.

So then mad because they had to cut some systems. Those were not a contractual promise. I never look as anything as a contractual promise in any game that I am wanting to play. I keep track of the development of the game in question. If I like what I see then I give it a try. Then if I like the end product, which honestly it does not take a lot to please me. I keep playing it for as long as I want to.

With the graphics of this game being way more intense. IMO 8 players would cause a lot of low end PC players to have lag so bad it would be unplayable. Their fps would hit an all time low. Also the amount of monster health would be doubled what it is now. There would be more players trying to get others to do all of the killing. While they collect all of the loot.

I say that this game is dark enough. The darkness in this game is different. Instead of it being in the graphics. It is in the NPC's in town. I love seeing people that at first do not think you will be able to do anything against the beast and demons that are outside of town. Then later on you are their champion.

So you expected Cain to be the only horadrim to live forever. To be the Duncan McCloud of Sanctuary. What I guess you expected Imperius to give him immortality right.

Look Cain had to die some time. What expected Cain to be killed in an explosion that takes out half of Sanctuary. Where maybe the Angiris Council has a second worldstone hidden somewhere. So they can recreate the 50% of Sanctuary that was destroy when Cain dies. Kind of like DBZ does with the dragon balls, using the dragon to clean up the mess and wish people back to life.

In an expansion Cain might be coming back as a new member of the Angiris Council. He could be the new archangel of Justice. Taking Tyrael's old position. That would be a fitting end for a horadrim of his stature.

I will be real honest with you, the one thing that has made the community sour. The biggest complaint is not one on your list.

It is one word, itemization. When Blizz fixes itemization then you will see more players come back than what you think possible.

Also concerning Cain, Cain himself said that he was a lot like Leah. He did not take the horadric texts seriously. If he had and joined the horadrim earlier, the events of Diablo 1 would not have happened. Because Cain would've been more than powerful enough to stop him. So then Leah was taking the same path as Cain. She only seen them as stories. What event short of Cain's death would've gotten her to see it is not just stories.
03/30/2013 09:39 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
Look speak for yourself when you say

...
03/30/2013 09:39 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
I know that only a small handful of players here would want that. The majority of us wanted an improvement over D2.


Still would've been better than this game.
D3 is a good game, the problem is the past predecessors set the bar so high. Rarely ever is a sequel as good as the original. D2 was a rarity in that. The success of D1 and D2 unreasonable expectations doomed this community regardless of how good it would be. At least D3 wasn't as bad as the sequels to the Star Wars and Indiana Jones movies......


The framework for D3 was already established. ALL they had to do was build on Diablo 2 instead of starting from scratch and make it their own way. And they had 7 years and the biggest budget in the world to do it.

03/30/2013 09:39 PMPosted by ShadowAegis
Look speak for yourself when you say that all of us wanted a perfect HD clone of D2:LOD. I know that only a small handful of players here would want that. The majority of us wanted an improvement over D2. Not a Call of Duty reskinned copy. This game is Diablo not Call of Duty. From what I have heard that Call of Duty is finally feeling the pain of not releasing enough new features. I guess that even their fan base can get tired of the same ol same ol kind of a game.


You call Diablo 3 an improvement over Diablo 2? While we didn't originally prefer a Diablo 2 in HD, most of us would prefer that over this Diablo 3.
03/30/2013 07:15 PMPosted by RhymingDemon
I think the #1 reason why it is so toxic is that Blizz tried to listen to the people instead of just running it the way they did d2 and doing whatever the hell they wanted to.


That would be fine if the current game designers knew what they were doing. Then they would just *happen* to give us what we wanted unless it was honestly just a bad idea. Instead they tell us they won't give us what we ask for even when it is obviously a good idea (or at least better than theirs). On top of that they have and to a lesser extent continue to made/make blunders.

These forums are toxic because Diablo 3 should be *way* better than Diablo 1 or 2, yes, even if it is a lame sequel. How is this? It's been well over ten years since the last game came out. Seriously. With the improvements to technology and game-making combined with the time they've had to mull over design decisions and storyline/content.. it is amazing that Diablo 3 wasn't the best game ever of video gaming history. Instead it is just meh ok.
03/30/2013 09:09 PMPosted by AscorbicKNF
Simply put, they could have repacked D2 and re-released it and all of us would be happy as a a fat kid in a pastry shop.


Yes, but only if they released it *as* Diablo 2 re-skinned. If they called it Diablo 3 then I would indeed have been livid.

I mean how pathetic was Cains death?


A lot of people seem to focus on this and I can't fathom why. Cain dies. He probably should have died long ago, given the path he followed. Get over it.

That alone was reason to quit because it invalidated the whole !@#$ing happy go lucky story.


Care to explain?

Diablo was a %!**#%##%, and his transformation from the girl was also stupid as !@#$.


The most I'll concede is that Diablo's dialog is pretty hilarious, much like Azmodan's: "You'll never win...OK, well, that stuff wasn't important, you're still too late...OK fine, you're almost here BUT YOU'RE STILL TOO LATE" and so on. As for Diablo himself, I liked the design. It showed some outside the box thinking, and gave a fresh vision of an old enemy.

ALL THE WHILE TAKING 15% OF YOUR MONEY.


The auction house has a fee-for-service. Those who use it are buying more peace of mind compared to unregulated third party sites where it's anyone's guess what might happen.

I'm livid.


If I was expecting Diablo 2 re-skinned, I'd be upset too.

I think that is partially true, but does not explain the toxicity that has existed on these forums even before release.


Yes it does. Before D3 was released there were PLENTY of screenshots, music scores, gameplay videos, leaked information, and convention testing. Most of which were completely awful and fans could see the problems that would plague Diablo 3 from a mile away.

The vast majority of game forums are representative of the product. Sure there are always whiners and complainer, it is the internet after all, but there is a HUGE difference between the forums of a good game and a bad game. People like you love to paint all forum goer's and "whiners" but you have never stopped to question if there was a reason for it. They did the same thing for Mass Effect 3's ending. Most people completely hated it, but off course they where just whiners and it had nothing to do with the fact that it was actually a terrible ending.

Bottom line, if Diablo 3 was a better game, it's forums would be too.

"game sucks"

but this is a whole diff ball game.
words cant describe how much i hate this game.


Why are you here?
If Diablo 3 was a great game, do you think most of the community would be sour like they are currently?

(I'm generalizing because this is my opinion)

If Diablo 3 had content put out regularly, do you think this community would outrage like it does constantly?

If Diablo 3 had legitimate specs for each class, that were ACTUALLY unique, do you think people would react like this?

If Diablo 3 wasn't being released for console, and you had a Single player, and 8 player game options, do you think 80% of the people who bought the game, would have stayed?

If Diablo 3 was more Dark, like its predecessors, with pentagrams, and evil real world demonic relations, do you think it would grasp people into the game more?

If Diablo 3 was, what they said it was going to be before launch, would people act as though someone put sand in their potato salad?

If Diablo 3 didn't kill off Deckard Cain, the only interesting character left besides Tyrael, do you think the long time fans of Diablo would be more happy?

Think about it. I'll wait.


http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7416067050
sour patch kids
1: People don't like change. Don't like getting a game different from what they envisioned.
2: The dumbest people are the loudest. Big community = big amount of dumb/loud people, feeding off of each other for support when they see that they aren't the only ones complaining about stupid crap.
3: There are actually plenty of things that need work, and there used to be a lot of things that were outright wrong with the game. Luckily that's mostly behind us now. Not that these guys would notice it.

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