New Firebats are awesome!

Witch Doctor
1 2 3 9 Next
Base 180 -> 385%
CoB 234 -> 500%
PB 270 -> 578%

just tested CoB on PTR, facerolled mp10 ghom @60s without buffs eazy! yes just CoB nothin else.

thank you bliz! lol


Nubtro has provided ample research on firebat mechanics and I will be updating this post as more data become available.

so props to you man, this will be invaluable to the WD community!


Where to begin:

1. the post where I calced and confirmed that Cloud of Bats does 500% weapon damage per tick when maxed out. In the post above me juju provided the data that my calculation is based on.

I dislike the fact that people talk about 1000% weapon damage per second, because that only applies to 1.00 aps. The skill doesn´t apply damage once per second. It applies (half) the tooltip damage twice per second at 1.00 aps (each 30 frames) and the more aps you have, the faster it ticks.The scaling formula is

floor (30/aps)

2. Cluod of Bats breakpoints that I posted here

The initial damage tick always happens on frame 10 after you click the skill. You´ll deal 250% weapon damage (not DPS displayed in your inventory) on the initial tick. All subsequent ticks scale depending on your aps and deal

#2: 250% * 1.2 = 300% weapon damage
#3: 250% * 1.3 = 325% weapon damage
#4: 250% * 1.4 = 350% weapon damage
#5: 250% * 1.5 = 375% weapon damage
#6: 250% * 1.6 = 400% weapon damage
#7: 250% * 1.7 = 425% weapon damage
#8: 250% * 1.8 = 450% weapon damage
#9: 250% * 1.9 = 475% weapon damage
#10: 250% * 2.0 = 500% weapon damage
#11: 500% weapon damage
#12: 500% weapon damage
etc. until you stop channeling

Note that if you really only care about a single and fast calculation related to your damage displayed in your inventory, just multiply that value by 10 and you get a rough DPS (albeit inaccurate) with maximum Cloud of Bats.

attacks per second - frame length per tick - ticks per second (frequency) - channeling mana cost per sec - time until max damage
0.90000-0.90909 aps - 33 frames - 1.82 ticks - 60 mana - 5.12 sec (307 frames)
0.90910-0.93750 aps - 32 frames - 1.88 ticks - 62 mana - 4.97 sec (298 frames)
0.93751-0.96774 aps - 31 frames - 1.94 ticks - 64 mana - 4.82 sec (289 frames)
0.96775-1.00000 aps - 30 frames - 2.00 ticks - 66 mana - 4.67 sec (280 frames)
1.00001-1.03448 aps - 29 frames - 2.07 ticks - 69 mana - 4.52 sec (271 frames)
1.03449-1.07142 aps - 28 frames - 2.14 ticks - 71 mana - 4.37 sec (262 frames)
1.07143-1.11111 aps - 27 frames - 2.22 ticks - 74 mana - 4.22 sec (253 frames)
1.11112-1.15384 aps - 26 frames - 2.31 ticks - 77 mana - 4.07 sec (244 frames)
1.15385-1.20000 aps - 25 frames - 2.40 ticks - 80 mana - 3.92 sec (235 frames)
1.20001-1.25000 aps - 24 frames - 2.50 ticks - 83 mana - 3.77 sec (226 frames)
1.25001-1.30434 aps - 23 frames - 2.61 ticks - 87 mana - 3.62 sec (217 frames)
1.30435-1.36363 aps - 22 frames - 2.73 ticks - 90 mana - 3.47 sec (208 frames)
1.36364-1.42857 aps - 21 frames - 2.86 ticks - 95 mana - 3.42 sec (199 frames)
1.42858-1.50000 aps - 20 frames - 3.00 ticks - 99 mana - 3.17 sec (190 frames)
1.50001-1.57894 aps - 19 frames - 3.16 ticks - 105 mana - 3.02 sec (181 frames)
1.57895-1.66666 aps - 18 frames - 3.33 ticks - 110 mana - 2.87 sec (172 frames)
1.66667-1.76470 aps - 17 frames - 3.53 ticks - 117 mana - 2.72 sec (163 frames)
1.76471-1.87500 aps - 16 frames - 3.75 ticks - 124 mana - 2.57 sec (154 frames)
1.87501-2.00000 aps - 15 frames - 4.00 ticks - 132 mana - 2.42 sec (145 frames)
2.00001-2.14285 aps - 14 frames - 4.29 ticks - 142 mana - 2.27 sec (136 frames)
2.14286-2.30769 aps - 13 frames - 4.62 ticks - 153 mana - 2.12 sec (127 frames)
2.30770-2.50000 aps - 12 frames - 5.00 ticks - 165 mana - 1.97 sec (118 frames)
2.50001-2.72727 aps - 11 frames - 5.45 ticks - 180 mana - 1.82 sec (109 frames)
2.72728-3.00000 aps - 10 frames - 6.00 ticks - 198 mana - 1.67 sec (100 frames)
3.00001-3.33333 aps - 9 frames - 6.67 ticks - 220 mana - 1.52 sec (91 frames)
3.33334-3.75000 aps - 8 frames - 7.50 ticks - 248 mana - 1.37 sec (82 frames)
3.75001-4.28571 aps - 7 frames - 8.57 ticks - 283 mana - 1.22 sec (73 frames)

3. Pierce the Veil, Blood Ritual and Firebats cost reduction gear. Posted my research from the live version of the game here

tested on live
39 blood ritual + mask (-12)
41-42 blood ritual
46 mask (-12)
49 base cost per tick
53-54 blood ritual + pierce the veil + mask
56-57 blood ritual + pierce the veil
61 pierce the veil + mask
64 pierce the veil

From the above results, I derived the following mana cost formula:
cost per tick = (tooltip channeling / 2) * (1 + (pierce the veil/100) - (blood ritual/100)) - (sum of resource cost reduction/4)

-> GamerObscura confirmed that bats reduction works the same way on PTR (1/4 per tick).

Note that I still don´t know if/how the reduction affects the initial mana cost. This needs to be tested. Please go and try just one piece of gear with reduction with no passives that affect the mana cost of skills and tell me by how much the gear slot actually reduced the initial tick.
Nice but two very obvious mistakes....

1. Hungry Bats is only single target damage.. at 350% which is LESS than AoE? Hello?!!!

2. Direbats' damage looks soooooooooo low now at 220%.

I hope there's more to come because this looks like half-a$$ job by leaving out Dire and Hungry. My favorite is actually Hungry!

PS: Blood Ritual will be 2% life regen! :D Who is not going to use BR? The best mana discount while having 2% life regen! LOL
Bears is still doing way more damage for me. I wasn't able to face tank with either plague or cloud. Not enough life coming back, even with the BR buff. The only use I can see is cloud of bats for ubers with a freeze wiz. The range of bats is awful so it doesn't hit as many targets as bears (or still do as much damage), and it's impossible to channel effectively for any length of time during elite fights soooo...yeah. As far as farming goes bears is still destroying bats.
cant wait to test it out when the patch is live :)
I don't think that is a awesome change for WD.
Actually, the damage is increasing, but unfortunately, the effecting range is still very small.
Since it is a DOT skill,
How come to face those powerful monster in MP10?
You can only hit them in front of 10 m distance.
SO, the skill is rubbish, BEAR still more powerful.
erm you don't use it as your primary spender, early impressions, imo bears+cob can be a very viable high mp build with a ls skorn. seems like instead of spirit walking out of trouble now you can stand ground (barring cc effects) without losing mana. atm my crits go 1.7m in just a few ticks making lifesteal crazy with a skorn. play style def needs getting used to… im sure em bat lovers are working on best possible builds now.

update: just did azmo @10 but cheated with slam dance, cob scales well with it, you guys think we can finally have breakpoints?
04/18/2013 07:41 PMPosted by juju
imo bears+cob can be a very viable high mp build with a ls skorn.

It works, but as soon as you fight a mob with arcane or frozen you have to move and you end up burning through more mana than bears. Bears also hit way more often, so even though bats throw out higher damage numbers, they are far less frequent. This might become an issue for skorn users as they may take enough damage in between crits to die. I am only seeing a slight improvement over bears against melee mobs with no deadly affixes. The best way I can put it is mobs who are super easy to kill will die slightly faster, but deadly ones will take longer and be harder to fight. I will say it does feel good to hit 3.5m crits with CoB though, I'll give it that.

Edit: ATM bats is still not replacing hex on my skill bar.
Hmm the mana isn't a problem for me but as Mike stated the damage and range is not enough to tank. Bears and AC are awesome for tanking. Bats and Spirit Barrage never were and still aren't.

Pets are actually not good for this version of the bats since they keep enemies away from me, they don't let them come into my bat range. So I find myself having to move a step or two just to recast it. So plague bats and cloud of bats are most likely not gona make it to Fetish builds.

On the other hand, Locusts - Pestilence became pretty necessary for pulling mobs in, and Manitou is a very nice addition for extra damage up close. And Horrify, Soul Harvest, Hex and Spirit Walk are great because they don't interrupt bats.

The change is towards the right direction ie buffing bats damage but its not as good as bear build. Gona keep testing it though, we will see.

I think we want some primary spenders, otherwise it is just a variation of the Bear build. I would like to see Bats, Spirit Barrage and AC have builds of their own without Bears.

PS why is this thread not in PTR feedback?
And I want to see haunt and locust swarm have their own builds...
But you don't always get what you want :)
Observation #1.

I have 1183 mana and 88 mana regen, with both SA and BR, my mana isn't going down while channeling Plague Bat!!! It used to go down slowly but wasn't a big deal as most of the fights end either before that or I need to move around.

With one -9 SOJ, my mana seems to stay about the same.

With one -9 SOJ and -10 Mara, my mana is actually going up little by little! LOL

That's one positive. Now, going to fight.

Observation #2

With Perice the Veil and only one BR, my mana went down pretty quick still. ugh.. could probably channel up to 15s.

With PtV, BR and SA, I could channel up to 30s or more. However, if I even interrupt myself, the initial mana cost is MASSIVE.

PtV is so sh@#$!!! ugh. I even had to take my Fetish out. Bummer. PtV with Bats isn't going to work most of the time especially if you get interrupted.
Travis told us that he always wanted to play a DoT build himself and agreed with us that Dot spells are not doing good enough damage. When a Blizz developer comments in our suggestion thread like this it means we might just get what we want. :)

EDIT: Jibikao I observed the same thing. PtV is not making it into this build. Spirit Vessel is going to be a must.
Okay, Plague Bat does A LOT of damage now. I like it. My setup is:

Manitou (need to find more ways to add damage while channeling and Manitou fits fine and costs little)
BR, SA and Fetish

I was doing MP6 and it was very smooth. The amount of Plauge Bat's damage buff is pretty massive because in some fights, I chose to stand within the fire DoT. I couldn't do that much before. I had to move. I decided to try to stay in it and my life steal helped a lot. If I have a Skorn with over 5% LS, I don't think I need to move much. lol

I wasn't going to take SA because channeling doesn't cost that much but I didn't want to take a Primary to break door so extra mana does help because the initial cost is high. With extra mana, I can care less about the initial cost.

I've been a Bats user for a while and Plague Bat is indeed 2x better IMO. Certain Elite fights, I didn't even bother moving. I even stood against Arcane beam one time.
yes i love it, it is awesome.
I compared it with bears at MP10, bears still way better but bats are now good for mp10 :)
CoB is so good now - 1000% damage after 5 seconds of channelling.

I'm pretty sure that makes WD the most powerful channeling class by a wide margain.

I just got a 1min MP10 ghom kill with 157K DPS + SoJ. I just stood there channeling CoB and tapping spirit walk healing journey. I was critting for 1.5mil

I took Jungle Fortitude, SA, and BR (the life regen is very nice when you are standing there.)

I wonder if it is going to get nerfed a bit
the 2% life regen from blood ritual is nothing compared the the 4% barbs and dh got lol. Dont know why they left out the healing runes for haunt and hex when they buffing all the healing skills from every class. they def need a buff more tha blood ritual.
CoB is so good now - 1000% damage after 5 seconds of channelling.

Is it 1000% or just 601%? It starts at 501.. and every 1s you can 20% and up to 100%. So max is 601%?
Can you believe they turned Direbats a channel? If you hit and run, it's impossible with that cost. It's horrible now!!!

Hungry Bats is just beyond bad.. 350% for ST? sigh.. wish they could spend more time to balance all the runes. Hungry Bat's range isn't even that long and it's random as hell.
I thought it was multiplicative, but i'm not sure tbh, it seemed like my damage would double over time, but maybe that was just crits and RNG?

Blood ritual is still really good though. I was dying to ghom at first then switched to BR and it let me survive against him.

If other classes have 4%, I certainly wouldn't mind it though :P. It's good enough for me as is.

It sucks for the direbats people that they changed it, but I can also understand why they changed it. As it was it seems like it was a really similar playstyle to zombie bears. But at the same time, they gave us some very nice stuff in return.
04/18/2013 10:03 PMPosted by ChuckNorris
the 2% life regen from blood ritual is nothing compared the the 4% barbs and dh got lol.

Blood Ritual is fine where it is because we get that mana buff. Inspiring Presence and Brooding should both be at 4% regen. They are comparable to each other, not Blood Ritual.

Dont know why they left out the healing runes for haunt and hex when they buffing all the healing skills from every class. they def need a buff more tha blood ritual.

IKR, how'd they miss that?

And Siphon as well.

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