§ ShockNadoShards(SNS), CM/WW build [guide]P3

Prev 1 2 3 4 25 Next
^^ thanks RV

@Void....see, look at the nice proofreading comment from RV. I'm very appreciative to people that come here and ask questions and add to the discussion.

With all your trolls, I'm just gonna hit 500 very, very quickly. So, ;-P
@dracnarl.....from the end of part 2

I'm not sure you should be giving up anything, really. I'd be looking at a Tal's chest, probably. Adding AR here would be great...instead of just armor.

Also, your VW's....that 4% life if probably only worth about 25 VIT. Think:
650 armor, 190 INT, 80+VIT, 100STR, 75 AR....that should be pretty affordable...under 10M. And alot cheaper if you're patient.

I imagine that your Force could also use a huge upgrade...its only 100 avg damage. look for a higher damage one with STR or VIT.
05/01/2013 11:10 AMPosted by PieHole
with my lameboi-inspired build.

Well, he has a new build now.

Like, a new one every day, lol.

I've noticed! More than Katy Perry's wardrobe changes during a live performance.

So I was looking into your advice earlier and I "think" I am going to do a swap to Nats Ring and Boots though I'm in a bit of a bind with that situation. I found that if I go for a IAS/CC ring, I'll take anywhere from a 5k-9k sheet dps loss though I'll gain about 7-8% crit. My other option though is to go for an IAS/CD ring, something like 9% IAS and 40-50% CD....my sheet dmg will go up and I'd still gain 2% CC. The main problem though is I really don't want to give up eHP when possible so I am trying to be very careful about what I pick.

The main thing is though I feel like I need to get my crit up a bit higher, my abilities don't seem to come off of cooldown fast enough when I switch to a pure SNS build....it's especially bad with single targets or the maniacs on keep 2. I feel like if I got my crit just a little higher, it'd be enough to deal with them and go pure SNS.

Thanks for the advice Piehole and Paranoyed

I think i know what i will be setting ym sights on, at least now i have a clearer goal for my farming. I'm afraid i will have to break up the tal set as your guys suggested - Looks like stormcrow, wh are my goals for now to help beef my meteors.

thanks again folks. My goals are now affordable lol.

Do you know what your ping is? It seems like with 51% CC that your abilities should be coming off cooldown fast enough...you shouldnt' need Shell and COld Snap to make things work. If your pink is high (150+) then that might be part of the problem.

Also, keep in mind that as you increase your CC your multiplier goes up. If you go 4CC nats ring then that's 6 more CC. That could be worth something close to a 1x multiplier addition. If you're typically doing 6x,...then with the extra CC you'd be doing 7x. So, that's what an extra 15% damage? Even if you lost some sheet DPS you'd come out better in the end. I've never done this test myself...just know that from what others have said in the forums. THat's part of the reason why I like runinng with alot of CC.

Sill testing out :)

Gut feeling is so far pretty good. As you said upgrades and maximising DPS while retaining defensive stats is going to be difficult but that's all part of the gearing challenge

Thanks for the tips
My ping is typically around 70-115ms so its pretty good. Maybe I am limited by how fast I can hit the buttons? (I don't use any macros or anything). It works fine pretty much when I have cold snap on my Frost Nova but when I swap it out for bone chill, the mob's freeze breaks before it comes back off cooldown until I've got a few twisters going or unless is a pack of mobs.

The other problem is giving up crystal shell for diamond shards makes me die a lot more on mp10 than I currently do. I think it again might be able to be solved with higher crit but I'm not 100% sure.

So basically I can do 9% IAS and 40-50% CD with 60ish int/vit on the ring or 9% IAS and 5%-ish CC on the ring. I'm just not sure which one is better or if I should just keep the ice climbers I have and try to get a trifecta ring with 9% IAS and 6% CC.

Yea, 50.5CC is pretty basic for CM. Better than 47 or 48....but I'm living the dream at 57%. Ofc, the dream costs me some paper DPS. Its probably made up with the higher damage multiplier that I get with higher CC....but I've never done the DPS tests to check that out. Maybe I'll try that sometime.

And I completely get the Shell use usage. Esp after running last night. I'll preface this by saying that I've borrowed a chest and ammy from Paranoyed while I'm selling mine and looking for better ones. I've lost about 40 or 50 AR in the process (gained some DPS and VIT). At any rate, I ran MP10 ubers a few days ago and put Shell on (which is typical for me), just for safety, and left it on. I was farming MP9 last night and was like, "why do I have Shell on?....better change to shards for more DPS!". Disaster. I got worked over by the first two mobs....it was embarrassing. And part of its my aggressive playstyle...but the rest is just the loss of 50AR...which works out to about 0.5 mit.

Long story, short: You have the same mit% that I do currently..so I feel your pain. That problem, dying, can be made better with more CC in that your freeze will be better...but, that's where I'm at,....and its still untenable. More AR/armor will cure that. I just need to find an upgrade that's affordable, ugh. I think the easiest thing for you would be to go to AR/Armor Lacunis...and drop the INT/VIT. Yeah, I know that will suck, but having high life and "low mitigation" isn't really working that well for you now....high mitigation will let you get by with low life since you're knocking down the damage before it even gets to your life. And you have plenty of life to give up. I bet you could even do a CC/IAS/AR/INT/min-max ring (i.e. add AR, drop VIT) and come out sweet in the end. The nats ring I have right now is a gg ring...but I'm really kinda missing the AR there, since I don't have mempo.
Well I took your advice and found a triple int roll chant's force. It's in my profile... I'm a little bummed because I had to drop 1% crit to get high enough avg dmg to match the source I had before, or else it would be a sidegrade/downgrade. It's already iffy enough as it is, dropping an entire % of cc.

I plan on getting my gloves and ammy above 9, the one ring above 5, and my lacunis at 5.5 at least, so eventually I'll be somewhere around 54-55 or so. Right now I'm at 51.5 :(

I ended up gaining 7k dps and about 3k life, so I'm now at 229.8kdps and 43.6hp, I went from 320kehp to 340. The triple int roll boosted my allres from 764 to 775, so now I'm a lot closer to my target of 800allres/400 armor.

Ok so I took your advice and got the Nat's boots and ring, I did go for the crit dmg one though so my crit still goes up 2% but I gain some much needed crit damage. While I didn't find a decent +resist ring, I did get one with some +armor on it so now I can try to replace something else that has armor with something that has only resists instead.

Right now with my scoundrel i'm sitting at 194k dps, 55.5% crit, 5206 armor and 726 resist all. Now to get those resists up over 800.....

I'm going to try a solo run though with bone chill and see how much of a difference the added 2% crit made.

Hmm,....I think I meant AR/Armor lacunis and a rare CC/IAS/AR/INT/min-max ring

Unless you meant the general suggestion of more CC. In which, adding CD was a great idea to make up for the loss of INT from the IC's. I'll also check when I get home. I want to say I have an AR/CD ring in the stash....might have sold it.
Yea I meant the whole general suggestion of more CC and going for a nats, I checked for the lacunis first but didn't find any that I liked.

I just finished a few keep 2 runs and I can definitely say that there is a noticeable difference as funny as that may sound, I can now run up to the maniacs and freeze them without it breaking first when using bone chill instead of cold snap.

I'm now thinking though I'll hold onto this setup for a while, or at least till I can both find/afford a nats ring with resist all. I think I will try to replace my Lacuni with some resist all ones when I get a bit more gold saved up.
05/01/2013 08:24 AMPosted by PieHole
53% CC (57% CC if 4%CC Explosive Blast is taken into account)

I think I might sidestep your question,....and comment on a few other things.

EB only makes up a small contribution to the CC profile of the build. WW accounts for, like, 85-90% or more of the crits (or procs, really), whereas crits from EB and SA make up the other 15%. So, if you had a +WW mod on an item, you could pretty much just add that to your CC total....but not EB. Sorry.

1434 life on hit is way overkill. I guess there's a thread going around where (LoH is the new mit)...and, sure, maybe that's the flavor of the day...but about 800 is really considered the sweet spot. Interestingly, you pretty much have that covered with just your ammy!! And, you could probably live with just that much...but it might be a little thing. If you had a ring with simply 200 LoH (like your skull grasp) then that would be alot more affordable. I'd try dropping your Zuni ring for a run or three and see how it feels. If you're OK with that, then you just opened up a very expensive affix on your ring.

You've done very well with your CC considering that it doesn't have any CC. Maxing CC on your other items has to get old...and expensive. If you went tripox, then you could either live with that extra CC...or "spend" if on a 9CC Ammy instead, for instance. It'd give you some flexibility.

Othwewise, you're looking pretty good. Your mit looks nice at 89%. You could still manage to push up your AR a little bit while dropping armor. Just make sure your mit stays the same....and dropping the armor affix will open up a slot for a different/better roll.

Nice toon though!

Thanks for your insightful response. I kinda agree with you that the 1434 LoH is overkilled for a regular SNS spec, but if you add molten impact meteor on top of it, the reflect damage would overwhelm a regular 800 loh can provide. I tested it with 1000 loh and if the elites have reflected damage on top of fire/poison pool as well as come arcane beam, my meteors spam would kill me fast.

If, however, I changed meteor out and get magic weapon with blood magic, then I would survive with just 800 LoH, but my dps drop significantly due to the high burst meteor dps in addition to the SNS dps.

Another note, I don't quite get why you want me to increase AR and reduce Armor while maintaining 89% mitigation? Whats the benefit of adding more AR while decreasing Armor and maintain the same mitigation? I thought Armor/AR would provide the best benefit if they are as close to 10:1 ratio as possible. ie I should increase more armor and reduce AR while maintaining the same mitigation? Right now, I got 4995 Armor and 801 AR, so in order to get it close to 10:1 ratio, wouldn't I need more Armor and less Resist while maintaining same mitigation?
05/02/2013 05:07 PMPosted by Devastator
but if you add molten impact meteor on top of it, the reflect damage would overwhelm a regular 800 loh can provide.

That is true. Rarely do i try a meteor build...but that is a big issue in that case.

05/02/2013 05:07 PMPosted by Devastator
I thought Armor/AR would provide the best benefit if they are as close to 10:1 ratio as possible.

I went back and read a few of those older posts about 10:1, and, while true, that's not exactly the reality of today. From an itemization standpoint, AR + armor takes up 2 slots and AR only takes up one. Also, you get more bang-for-the-buck from AR and armor....(i.e. you can stack 80 on every items, but most items you can only stack ~400 Armor....which is worth about 45 AR.....so, stacking AR is more worthwhile). Also, i.e. if you have 50 AR and 200 Armor (like your WH)....why not just get 75 AR? You'd end up in about the same place mit% wise....and the slot that rolled Armor can now be used to roll something else more useful. In reality for you, doing that on your WH wouldn't make much difference....going 100+ INT on your WH is about impossible cost wise (I didn't have access to the AH when I wrote that comment). Now, there's other things to consider...like budget, that can make AR+Armor the way to go...but I might not follow the 1:10 thing that closely. Pay attention to % mit more.
I am almost to the "end game" level haha. Keep up the good work compiling all of this data.

thankfully i found this thread. i had found others that help a lot but this one is super. man thats a lot of reading and a lot to remember,,,,,,

anyway, i sold a manajuma carver for 1.75bill and decided i wanted a kick arsed freezer boy. the aim was to perma freeze evrything even at mp10 inc ubers.

mainly i want it for my team and they consist of barb and dh and dh.

i did what i had read and adjusted where i had no info.

the results:
aspeed 3.06
cc 54
cd 267
ehp 455856
dps 149038
hp 46338
loh 786
int 2071
dex 29
str 173
armour 4273
ares 800

perhaps you could browse me and give me your opinion? no bull, after reading this you are the man!
Hey Pie! Again, wonderful job on the guide. Always worth a daily perusal.

I think you gave me guidance early in thread #2. But in case you don't remember my smiling face amongst the hundreds you have assisted, a quick recap. I was a high lifer/ low miter (60k/83% or so), which provided a very fragile existence even w/ 1300 LOH. Have since moved up from 350 AR to over 800, keeping armor steady at 4600, life almost 40k. Very much better! She plays like a charm.

We dumped the BT cross (boy was that tough to swallow for a vitaholic) for a high CC/AR/IAS ammy and as suggested am trying out a lacuni w/o CC but mucho EHP. Holding 52CC with the scout, but missing the additional CC. Shame on me, but I ignored your suggestion to up the vile wards. They are my only source of PuR, and as a former ToTD carrying WitchDoc, it would take 3 slots of PuR to feel comfy and that just ain't gonna happen. All in all, it was about adding AR to everything, sneaking in a little vit/life/armor where possible, and largely ignoring dps. Which telegraphs my next conundrum, 'How to get more damage'. Oh, and on a budget...

Her only sources of CD are on the Nats and WH, outside of a recently purchased RS Emerald (man are those things expensive for what they provide- 3k dps for 20mill, should probably get used to that eh). So obviously some room for trifecta ammy, gloves and ring. Most have way too many zeros on the price tag for me. As a OS chant user, I have 3 IAS to burn and still remain above 2.73, so some range of movement there. This is where I get confused as to proper direction, adding damage while keeping % mit. My budget is dismal, just recently upped my allowed expenditure per slot to 20 mill from 10 mill, could probably sneak in a 40 or two tho. Should I rethink the vile ward's? I have a pair of 9ias/78 AR Inna pants earmarked for a dex character. Could I make use of these? Shifting LOH to an ammy, dropping lacunis entirely. I could also sell them for more than the value of my enitre character, but love using self-found items if possible. Any ideas would be most appreciated.

A note on latency-
I have the opportunity to play in 3 different environments. Home at 60-80ms, hotel at 250ms, and work at 900-1400ms. Home is 'omg flippin wonderful build' (mp10 kinda slow mp9 farm), hotel is 'whoah freeze in funky, better back off mp a bit', and work is 'wtf is this sh*t, dying constantly, mp0 feels like mp15, gimme frickin offline mode'. With latency near 1 second, all trash mobs gain vortex, teleport, slow time and the ability to cause damage from offscreen. This makes a CM wiz, or any character for that matter, rather frustrating and nearly unbearable to play. Even teleport doesn't work, she just shakes her hips and says 'not now' - the story of my life eh? Don't play at work, you might be saying. On average I am away from home around 3 weeks a month, staying on drilling locations 24 hrs per day. I have to play at work, although this usually means finding great deals on auction and waiting until I get home to try them out. Luckily the wife loves playing the Diablo series, so no complaints there. As a bonus, I can say I make big bucks playing games....right.

TL&DR So long and thanks for all the fish.
Thanks for the recap! Sometimes I go back and check what my earlier advice was....takes awhile to find the old posts...so...thanks!

And you're looking so solid. Tough to take that leap to go from vit to mit....but it works great. I think for awhile, a long, long time ago...I ran with like 22k life....was inbetween gears...and was surprised how well it held up if you were super careful. However, being at 35+k is certainly the way to go.

keep an eye on your "Total Damage Reduction" from d3up.com. Its the new thing that wer're really stressing here on the forums. Better than EHP. Takes into account both AR and armor. And you're at 88.6%, which is solid. Its actually where I'm at right now. I'm borrowing a chest and ammy while I sell mine and look for others...so i'm down about 40 AR from where i'd like to be. I feel pretty weak in mp9 at time, so I run shell...and that fixes things. So, I'd get mit up a little bit if you want to be tankier...if not, that's fine. I won't ding you too bad for it. And besides....if you're running MP 6 or 7 (which is what you should be doing with your DPS) then that's plenty of mit.

Another big difference between you and I is paragon levels and INT....which are related, ofc.

(more after lunch....mmmmm...beef brisket sandwich.....)

So, you're rapidly hitting "gg" item territory. Depends on what you definition of gg is, but I hit it at about 150k DPS with good mit. It happens when you have to start replacing all of the trash affixes on your items with useful affixes. Some of your items have a trash affixes: thorns, resits, life regen, (PUR). Those need to be turned into main stat rolls or split main stat rolls....A split main stat INT/STR roll gets you 200+INT and 100STR. It gets you 100+INT/100STR on your WH. Gets you CC on your lacunis. Viles with 100+STR, 190 INT, 90 VIT are readily available...at least I coudln't sell mine for over 10M, which was sad. Or 230+INT, 90VIT is probably a better option for you. Your Chest's AR=Armor is equal to about 70AR....so look for 70AR plus something else...INT or VIT or Armor or %life or something...consolidate AR and armor where you can.

I guess that's it for now. Cheers!
I heart piehole

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum