202K DPS / 645K EHP: The Balanced Budget Way

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05/22/2013 07:33 AMPosted by Piffle
edit: And c'mon, you know I do buyout comparisons because there's no way to accurately compare items that are on bid because all the bids come in at the last minute -,-

Forgot to address this directly earlier. Of course I know what you were doing in bringing up the buyout comparisons. :) It's the only way of getting a snapshot of going prices, even if they can be wildly inaccurate in comparison to true market price.

05/22/2013 07:33 AMPosted by Piffle
Also, you mentioned earlier in the thread you were looking at pants that had what, 78 AR, and they went over 95 million, right? You can buy a pair of 76 AR on buyout right now for 65 mill. Is 2 AR worth 30 million? Or, even better, there are two pairs of 78 AR on buyout right now for 75 mill. And they even have 95/96 dex!

Well, I picked up a pair of Inna's Pants with 95 Dex / 78 AR / 8% IAS (it's showing in my profile now) for a cool 44.4M gold -- not sniped, just threw out a 50M bid before I left for work and hoped for the best. Basically, I saved 50M for 3 dex. based on what I witnessed a day earlier. Not as good of a deal as QHTran's, but you can't win 'em all! :)


TBH, going OWE free was a lot cheaper than I expected. I thought that I needed my full 170M to go OWE free in the helm and pants alone, but as it turned out, I only spent ~60M on those two items, and my old ones sold for a lot more than what I paid for... so in the end, I think I'm only out 25M at the end of both of the transactions.

My new stats with OWE & STI?

202K DPS / 678K EHP / 5.2% LS
50% CHC / 527% CHD / 33% IAS
52.6K HP 12.9x Mitigation HP:EHP Ratio / 92.25% DR
678K Ranged EHP / 730K Elite EHP / 768K Melee EHP

Total cost of gear (not including crafting / gems): 207M gold

Great to hear you completed your no-OWE goal!

Been following much of your general advice for a few months now. I was hoping you'd let me chat with you in-game soon about a general direction on improving my character.

Essentially we are of similar mind in terms of constructing around EHP/Mitigation first and improving DPS after. I'm at My EHP/Mitigation goal but stuck at just over 100K DPS. I'd like to get to 150K or so while maintaining my EHP. I'm not working on dropping OWE but currently can Do ok without STI when I need to pick up GL for a group. Often I run Trancendence instead of STI solo.


In a Nut-shell:
104K DPS
672K EHP / 1:13.44 EHP Ratio
32% Attack Speed Inc.
49% CC
373% CHD

The big Catch that I can't really get my head around is that I'm currently tied to the 2 piece BT set (Chest/Pants) to keep my EHP and Mitigation up. Obviously there are DPS improvements to be made here by using Inna pants and various chests. I've tried switching out either one to some alternatives, typically a FR version of either Inna chest or pants and my survivability dipped below comfort with my typicaly MP9 group play.

Any thoughts on where to shift my mitigation to make the swap? and what should I swap to? I'm actually a fan of BT armor if I can keep it and get to my 150 goal just on other DPS Pieces.

I guess I should also note my budget has ranged from 10-30 million on hand at any given time. all my pieces are 0-20M (Sword being the highest at 20M) So, yea... I live by trying to score bids and such as well.
So they censor it in text, but not the actual btag? Kinda funny, dontcha think?

It’s all kinda funny and misleading as well… I thought that spear chucker was using profanity to sign off all these time lol
And grats on your new pants!
I think they were a great score it’s just 2 AR from being perfect and that makes going OWE-free a lot easier
Hurray for us tight wads lol

You have just so much EHP loaded onto your BT pants and chest .. it’ll be hard to take out either one (100 vit set bonus too...)
Get a beastly MH for more dps?
You have just so much EHP loaded onto your BT pants and chest .. it’ll be hard to take out either one (100 vit set bonus too...)
Get a beastly MH for more dps?

Yeah Exactly. Over in the Sword/board thread it looks like the pants are actually the more common keep, b/c of good EP/life% and importantly its my only source of LoH to complement my 1 LS weapon.

For that reason I've been experimenting with vairous chest pieces, an Innas and a Tal's. Been tough though because of my combined 135 resist on the chest as well as the combined 299 HP (with bonus)

I've tried several options with Inna/Tals chest which I could run through -all of which severely gimp my EHP (particularly the mitigation), but I've now officially highjacked the thread so I should really go make my own. . .

Not surprised you're tied to those Blackthorne pieces. They're two of your best peices. That surcoat you've got is really nice, and since S&B Monks are typically a little starved for LS/LoH, the pants just help out so much. Anyway, my thoughts are:

1. Bracers have 1 good roll and 2 half-kinda-good-to-OK rolls. Really just keep crafting there. Between Armor, AR, Fire resist, Vit, you're bound to get a Dex roll with CC that's better than that in a reasonable number of crafts. (If you think of less than 100 or so as "reasonable")

2. Nice black weapon. 8% Inna's Favor will actually be more DPS for you that a WH, I think. If you get one with high fire resist, it's only slightly less EHP, but so much more yummy mitigation. Or splurge on a Dex/Vit one and you can actually gain EHP and upto 5K DPS depending on how much Dex you get.

3. ...Or ditch Inna's altogether. Get a Mempo with Fire Resist. Maybe it's possible to trade that ring in for something with CC instead of 73 AR so you net some attack speed and EHP when you switch to the Mempo?

4. This one is tricky. Get Namless to craft you an amulet. Give him access to your account if necessary, The crafting gods like him. A lot.

5. Other than that... get stuff that's like your current gear.. but you know... higher numbers and stuff... ... yeah.
Wow. Great thoughts Demiwraith - Thanks for spending the time to take a look.

1. Bracers - I agree, could get both mitigation and more HP. Actually was shopping for a replacement but I can't find one that adds either and maintains my DPS. Even looking pretty far outside my budget. Really is a crafting spot. So, maybe I'll prioritize it.

2. Interesting on the Inna belt recommendation. Have the WH because I run shield and was looking for CD and Ias for spirit regen. I'll load up some Inna in D3up and see how it compares. I would get the 130 2 inna bonus, so that would help for sure. I did have an Inna briefly before this WH and the WH was an improvement, but I've gained more CD elsewhere since then so you never know.

3. I actually looked at Mempos lastnight, Assuming a non-CC one they all seemed to drop my DPS. Maybe I could net a gain with shifting my ring slot as you suggested. I just got this ring with the goal of adding mitigation elsewhere to free up a gear change on my body, but my old one is CC/Avg dmg/High dex that actually is 1K dps higher with 150 armor instead of the 73 AR.

4. Seriously. Haven't even really crafted Ammy's due to the cost, just a dozen or so Dex ones. no hits. This one was decent for 8M though.

5. yea. Exactly, not actually dying to drop my BT stuff if I can work around it. I do like the bonuses and built in stats with this set a lot.

Thanks dude!
4. This one is tricky. Get Namless to craft you an amulet. Give him access to your account if necessary, The crafting gods like him. A lot.

lol if nameless does this for Zuggles then I'll sign up right now to be the next on the list!!
05/23/2013 10:29 AMPosted by QHTran
4. This one is tricky. Get Namless to craft you an amulet. Give him access to your account if necessary, The crafting gods like him. A lot.

lol if nameless does this for Zuggles then I'll sign up right now to be the next on the list!!

Yea what the hell, Nameless ammy is unfair. I just loaded it into D3up on my profile and I would gain:

+8,464.93 DPS
+36,047.33 EHP

That ammy is the Beez kneez!
I know. The crafting RNG gods love me... and I can't explain it. The three locations that I have largely concentrated all of my crafting efforts have yielded me some good returns. So let's try something out... not saying that I can be a lucky charm. But let's all get into the same game and go crafting crazy simultaneously and see whether we can influence the RNG gods into giving us all some good luck.

I think I'm ready to sit down and craft somewhere close to 50 chests as I have gone way under budget on my OWE-free quest and my AH sales of old gear has given me unexpectedly higher returns. I haven't started crafting chests yet, so I'm curious to see what my dex chests will look like. If you are game, let's do it tonight. :)
nuh-uh dude. I'm not messing up your lucky streak =)

I may be on tonight, Either way, good luck! I'll catch you soon to chat at least. Better if we slay sumthin.
nuh-uh dude. I'm not messing up your lucky streak =)

I may be on tonight, Either way, good luck! I'll catch you soon to chat at least. Better if we slay sumthin.

05/23/2013 12:56 PMPosted by KamelJabber

What I can accomplish away from keyboard knows no bounds . . . .
Nameless. back to your original thread.

I've also really found the incremental value purchasing to be a great money maker. I don't intentionally buy flips but I've also sold about 80-90% of my gear for more than I paid. Part of this is inflation I'm sure. But this monk was my 2nd character, and I made like 50 mil over time probably on upgrading each piece several times.

In any case. I'm actually thinking of having Bapdawg110 rush me up a DH/or Barb so I can do some of that low level shopping again. I need to generate the cash to buy more monk stuff!
Very nice.

It's the amulet that does the job. After a lot of tinkering I've arrived at the same exact itemization, and I've comparable stuff short of the amulet.

Slot by slot:
Boots & one of the rings have to be Natalya for the excellent crit bonus. The boots are a no-brainer. CC Natalya rings are a bit expensive, though generally affordable. CD rings with nice % life and resist bonuses also work and tend to be cheap.

Pants: Inna since the speed bonus allows you to opt out of the Lacuni. Inna's Pants are good pants anyway, plus cheap.

Belt: Most people seem to prefer Witching. Easy to get resistance bonus and good IAS and CD rolls. Inna's belt is not bad and I used it for a while instead of Witching in order to have 2-set Inna.

Chest Armor: I tried Tal Rasha but it's not as good as Inna. Inna gives you a truckload of HP. Plus you want the 2-set dex bonus in case you opt for Mempo.

Helm: It's either Mempo or Inna. 6CC Inna's are a dime a dozen, it's also easy to get a resist bonus; the bonuses to Monk skills are kind of cute, too. +10% to your main spirit generator is not a bad thing to have.
CC Mempos are too expensive to bother with, and Inna's helms are easily comparable with non-CC Mempos. Though you do get a lot of AR with a Mempo.

Shoulders: Vile Wards are very cheap, and crafting tends to produce good results fairly quickly.

Bracers: Craft.

Gloves: Can get tri-quad-quinfectas relatively easily. I think that's because the old lvl-62 6-stat gloves crafting recipe was probably the best old recipe and people saturated the market. Not worth crafting account bound gloves, IMO, unless one has DE flowing out one's ears. Better to shoot for amulets.

Second ring: My impression is that Litanies (and Hosts, but Litanies are cheaper) and Skull Grasps are the best. SG has Monk bonuses which may be useful. Good Hellfires are also an option. For a very powerful character, a nice SoJ is viable.
Excellent rare rings are also an option, but they tend to be expensive.

Weapon: 3 approaches here. The thing to keep in mind is that at MP8+ you need life steal, or, I suppose, massive LoH. AFAIK LS is better than LoH, but I might be wrong, and LoH might be better for dual-wield or shield builds. Also LS is tied to your DPS, while LoH is tied merely to you number of attacks per second.
2H: This is probably the most direct approach, since it's easy to get a good Skorn with all the bonuses one may desire: LoH/LS, 150+ CD, free socket, 300+ dex, and high damage. It's worth noting that Skorn is the cheapest way to get more than 3% LS without sacrificing too much DPS. Getting two good LS one-handers is hard.
Dual-wield: A lot of people use WKL's and EF's. Both are excellent weapons. But I do hate the fear-on-hit on the EF. WKL's tend to be as expensive as they are fun. In general, I get the impression that for comparable levels of DPS, Skorn is cheaper than a good dual-weapon combo. Unfortunately, the Monk unique weapons tend to be lame. (And the 2H daibos are particularly weak.)
Shield: Haven't seriously tried this. The shield can provide huge CC, dex, vit, and resist bonuses for a rather low price. The dex/crit bonus may mitigate lost weapon dmg/ CD. But I don't see where one would get enough LS or LoH. Strong LS one-handers are expensive, it's almost impossible to obtain a good LS WKL on a budget; and stacking LoH on rings/amulets is generally hard to do, though perhaps a large LoH bonus on the amulet does the job. IDK. There are strong shield-based Monks out there.

Finally, the Amulet: The way to go here is to craft until you get the best-in-game amulet. Good CC-CD-stat amulets are extremely expensive. IAS and AR are generally not cost effective on amulets, and it's cheaper to stack vitality elsewhere. The only legendary/set amulet that seems worth using is Mara, and even that one is, at best, a mediocre substitute for a good crafted amulet. An amulet like the one Nameless has can boost a character's DPS by 30-50% (and maybe more), it's insane.

So good job, Nameless! I wonder what you have to say about the Wizard class.
Note on chest/pants/amulet re-Zuggles: It's also tempting to go for the Blackthorne set, since it has such large survivability bonuses. The amulet is cheap and solid, but mediocre. Ideally one should have LoH in the weapon, anyway. The armor and the pants are quite nice, but using them makes it harder to get the 2-piece Inna set; and using the pants forces one to opt for the Lacuni to get the 24% speed bonus... But yeah, Blackthorne is an option, as are good rares and perhaps the Digger pants.
I just don't get EHP calculations. I built my Monk with about 100m, I can do MP6 with relative ease, MP7 is doable but takes a little too long. Overall, I am happy with the results..

You are sitting at 202k/645k DPS/EHP. I'm sitting at 132k/337k. I'm comparing to try to figure out where the major differences are and I just don't get some of the calculations.

My profile:

For example, it says you get 188k EHP from your Vile Wards. While mine are almost identical and give me only 87k? There is no way the difference between these is 100k EHP.


I'd really like to be able to farm MP8+... what am I missing? I have about 750m I *could* spend, but I don't want to just blow it all away on bad deals.
@Tyrindor... I honestly don't know what to say. I've always found that kind of information a little suspect (how much each piece contributes to DPS and EHP) and I also don't know how they calculate stuff. What I do know his this: your monk has ~170 less resistance, ~600 less armor and ~17K less HP than my monk in that snapshot of my monk about 13 paragon levels ago. According to d3up, if you hold all other things equal:
    170 resistance = ~70K EHP
    600 armor = ~25K EHP
    17K HP = 170K EHP (using the HP:EHP ratio)

One of the things that is interesting in the calculation of overall EHP is that there is a relationship between armor and resistance, in that the more armor you have, the more effective each resistance point is, and vice versa. So the closer you can bring it to the 10:1 ratio, the more effective each armor and resistance point is; likewise, the more out of whack it is, the less effective each mitigation point is for the one with a higher amount (typically resistance for monks) and the more effective each mitigation point is for the one with the lower amount (typically armor).

As for your farming MP8, a couple of glaring things come to mind:
(1) Ruby in helm and HF ring with no DPS stats is working against your goals of farming higher levels -- those gearing choices are typically reserved for lower MPs for XP/loot farming. An amethyst in your help will raise your EHP to around 400K right there.
(2) As for your ring, I love the litany ring, as it represents great balance of DPS / EHP if you want to go the balanced route (the damage reduction from elites is great against the elite affixes that get you)... but if you want more DPS, and not worry about EHP, then the unity ring may be the better choice or a well rounded rare ring with good damage stats.
(3) When looking for gear, try to waste as few affixes as possible. GF in the WH and nats ring, and the int/vit roll in your nats boot aren't the best rolls... I strongly believe in being very intentional in what affixes you choose for your toon. If you look in my monk, the only wasted affixes that are on there are the ones that are on my crafted items (or the ones forced upon me by the legendaries)... everything else has a defined purpose (DPS or EHP wise). Your WH could do a lot better if you put your resistance in your search terms, and same with your nats boots, to name two examples.

Anyway, that's my 2c about gearing. If you have more questions, feel free to add me in game and I can try to help as best I can.
If I could I might suggest for someone on a real budget could get an all resist andys instead of mempo.
05/30/2013 07:31 AMPosted by Calamity
If I could I might suggest for someone on a real budget could get an all resist andys instead of mempo.

Or even cheaper yet use Poison OWE and roll Armor on helm (397 Armor?) which ties Chest for highest Armor roll on any single piece of equipment.

Andy has 1 random roll and most prefer sockets. :-/

Too bad I'm not a poison monk!
I am just coming back to my lvl 60 monk on D3 after not playing for a very long time (before paragon). I was wondering if this build/gear is a good goal to aim at or if their are also other good monk builds/gear I should be looking at. I want to try and get a good build together for 200mil~ gold so I can play without holding back my friend. Any advice would be great thanks :D

Friends Char: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/astraldragon-1178/hero/1212344

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