Official Ladder support thread ;)

General Discussion
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Confusing since NL got the items as well once the ladder ended....


Ladder exclusives (loots) forces people to play ladder, whether they want it or not. After all, this game is about loot. NL becomes some sort of back-watered ground where a few people plays or PvP.

Ladder items "entering" NL is not going to change anything -_-


Look, I don't care if they exist or not, but they didn't force anyone to use the ladder. Maybe you, but not me. I chose it because it felt like I was on par with everyone and I had the chance to be the best, even if it were small to none. Those items existed in NL, so they weren't the reason, especially since after the first ladder, it didn't matter anymore.
- How would you ideally like that system to work?

No Auction House
Separate Economy
2 Seasons per Year
Exclusive Legendary Items
A Fun Publicized Ranking System


- How long would you like the resets to be?

6 months

- How many characters do you think players should be able to create for ladders? (Do you think they should take up the existing slots you have?)

As many as they would like and yes to taking up an existing item slot.
How about the idea to retire a character and you are left with the characters stats but it no longer takes up an item slot.


- Should there be an auction house for ladder characters?

No Auction House (at least no real money). Added feature to join games tagged for trading purposes.

- Should there be any special items or perks for ladder-only characters? If so, what kind?

Yes, an introduction to new legendary items and/or affixes

- What kind of restrictions, if any, should be placed on ladder characters?

Cannot enter games with non-ladder characters. No access to auction house. Separate Blacksmith/Jeweler that starts at level 1. Separate Stash

- Do think players should be able to bring their ladder characters into "non-ladder" once a reset is complete?

Yes, just like D2. You have the main game and then you have ladder seasons that end and merge into the main non-ladder game.

- Is it necessary for ladders to be competitive, or is it enough for players to just see for themselves how far they can go on their own?

Yes to competition, although the best aspect will be an economy reset and no pay to win. There should be some awesome leader boards and a way to show off your ladder progress.

- Why would ladders improve your in-game experience?

The auction house, botting, and economy makes me feel worthless in this game and a victim of players who pay to win. I want a ladder season that defines hard work, skill and creativity. Something we can all be proud of. D3 is turning into a inflated pay to win game and ladders would be amazing.


Ladder exclusives (loots) forces people to play ladder, whether they want it or not. After all, this game is about loot. NL becomes some sort of back-watered ground where a few people plays or PvP.

Ladder items "entering" NL is not going to change anything -_-


Look, I don't care if they exist or not, but they didn't force anyone to use the ladder. Maybe you, but not me. I chose it because it felt like I was on par with everyone and I had the chance to be the best, even if it were small to none. Those items existed in NL, so they weren't the reason, especially since after the first ladder, it didn't matter anymore.


*They exists*, but they do not drop. You couldn't even killed Ubers in NL if I remember correctly. Keys didn't drop. Playing NL was inferior to playing Ladder because Ladder had more content.

You had more things to do in Ladder. You could go hunt keys. You could hunt runes. You could do MF runs. You could do Uber runs. You had a lot more variety of runs in Ladder.

It forces people, who would otherwise not play Ladder, to play it.
I never liked the idea of a ladder mode, people are so delusional that the competition was ever legit in D2. However, I will propose another idea. Endless dungeon mode, a Solo and Team Bracket. Each floor you complete awards a fixed amount of points, each floor has completely random objectives.

These different objectives can range from kill all waves of enemies to kill one boss enemy. There can also be levels where poison fills the room and your hp starts draining, no mobs in the room, you have to simply find a way to unlock the locked gate. No amount of life regen or poison resist will save you, you simply have x time limit or you die flat out. You could also run into random pvp objectives, would be hilarious to all of a sudden see a player(s) rushing toward you, failing the objective locks you out of the race for a time period.

This is much harder competition to bot, these dungeon floors can have traps. Traps can either buff you or penalize you. For instance, I run to a chest, pop it. There is a chance I might take a debuff for the rest of the floor or it may buff me or contain lots of loot with an enhanced chance at legendary drops.

Debuffs:

slower resource regen,
-% crit penalty.
-% more damage taken.
Paragon level reduced by 25,50,75 or even 100.

Buffs
Faster resource regen
+Crit bonus.
% more damage dealt.
+HP%

At the end of each dungeon season the points are tallied and a winner is declared for each bracket. The winners get special titles, unique banners, character portraits and achievements.
I never liked the idea of a ladder mode, people are so delusional that the competition was ever legit in D2. However, I will propose another idea. Endless dungeon mode, a Solo and Team Bracket. Each floor you complete awards a fixed amount of points, each floor has completely random objectives.

These different objectives can range from kill all waves of enemies to kill one boss enemy. There can also be levels where poison fills the room and your hp starts draining, no mobs in the room, you have to simply find a way to unlock the locked gate.

This is much harder competition to bot, these dungeon floors can have traps. Traps can either buff your or penalize you. For instance, I run to a chest, pop it. There is a chance I might take a debuff for the rest of the floor or it may buff me or contain lots of loot with an enhanced chance at legendary drops.

Debuffs:

slower resource regen,
-% crit penalty.
-% more damage taken.
Paragon level reduced by 25,50,75 or even 100.

Buffs
Faster resource regen
+Crit bonus.
% more damage dealt.
+HP%

At the end of each dungeon season the points are tallied and a winner is declared for each bracket. The winners get special titles, unique banners, character portraits and achievements.


Well, I don't agree about every points in your idea, but I did post my ideas about a "Ladder ranking in the Arena with PvP and PvE instances".

People are going to come in and say "well, some people got better gear than me, so it's not fair. Reset everything".
06/12/2013 02:42 PMPosted by DoNTDiEx
Also an excuse to re roll characters!


An excuse to this would be to allow us to allocate stats points so we can do more than one of the same char for different purposes.


See it starts already. First a ladder then this. Allowing allocation of stat point is a game changer. If a ladder is simply a way to try to bring D2 into D3 I think Blizzard has to stand up and say no to this ladder nonsense once an for all.

It's the same thing with no rmah. Hello ladder players have been using 3rd party sites for over a decade. Why can't people understand that simple fact. Take it out an guess what all the people willing to violate the tos will rule the ladder. What kind of fantasy land are these ladder people living in.
I like the idea of a ladder because the Devs can probably increase droprate of legendaries and it will still be balanced because these items will rotate out of ladder to non-ladder. Non-ladder can have the current drop rate.
06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- How would you ideally like that system to work?

Completely separate from what's in place now. Separate stash, gold, character slots, etc. Nothing from ladders ever enter the 'regular' servers even upon resets.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- How long would you like the resets to be?
~6 months would probably be the sweet spot. Gives players a nice length of time to play their characters and make the journey to P100 if they so desire without allowing the economy to become over-bloated with gold and items.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- How many characters do you think players should be able to create for ladders? (Do you think they should take up the existing slots you have?)
I would say 10 would be the best route but 5 would suffice for one of each class. No they shouldn't take up existing slots as I think a ladder should be 100% separate.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Should there be an auction house for ladder characters?
GAH is fine, RMAH is not.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Should there be any special items or perks for ladder-only characters? If so, what kind?
Obviously achievements but other than that, I don't care either way.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- What kind of restrictions, if any, should be placed on ladder characters?
They never interact with 'regular' characters and nothing you obtain in a ladder ever transfers to 'regular'. Basically, just the things I've mentioned in other parts of the post.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Do think players should be able to bring their ladder characters into "non-ladder" once a reset is complete?
No. The point of the ladder is the economic reset and race to max level. Transferring old characters to non-ladder would be largely pointless other than introducing a huge amount of gold and items all at once into the non-ladder economy. Sure it's already screwed, but we shouldn't add to the issue. You should, however, be able to store your heroes like Hardcore players can store their fallen heroes and be viewable in the armory. Categorize them by ladder season as well.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Is it necessary for ladders to be competitive, or is it enough for players to just see for themselves how far they can go on their own?
I don't think there needs to be an official competition with rewards or anything but leaderboards would be nice to have. Players will make their own competitions.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Why would ladders improve your in-game experience?
I always enjoy starting a game fresh even if I've played for a long time. I restarted on new servers in WoW (meaning when they first came online) because it's fun being a part of the initial surge. A ladder would allow a complete reset and make the game feel fresh again, for a little while at least.
*They exists*, but they do not drop. You couldn't even killed Ubers in NL if I remember correctly. Keys didn't drop. Playing NL was inferior to playing Ladder because Ladder had more content. You had more things to do in Ladder. You could go hunt keys. You could hunt runes. You could do MF runs. You could do Uber runs. You had a lot more variety of runs in Ladder.It forces people, who would otherwise not play Ladder, to play it.


Selective memory?

You could and still can do ALL of those things in NL!

Maybe you are confusing Classic vs LoD with ladder vs nl.
I always loved ladder only items. They were always a bit more awesome, and could probably be that way because of the inherent nature of ladders, basically GG items aren't as damaging when you have a set period of time to use them. Plus the incentive is nice. If you add a ladder, sprinkle in some of these if you wouldn't mind.
06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Should there be any special items or perks for ladder-only characters? If so, what kind?


This got me thinking a ladder would be a great way to 'soft launch' items. Let me explain, i am assuming the devs are doing a tremendous amount of testing for the up-coming itemization patch, which takes a lot of time " ummm what if we used X item with Y build ...will that make Y build OP .....hmmm no. okay what about X item with Z build ......" and it goes on and on, with all the possible builds this is a huge time sink. So if we had a ladder they could drop items into the community and let the community figure out any OP builds/ Item combos ( they are very good at it ) thus saving the devs a big chunk of time. And if an item is OP in someway just don't carry it over into into NL.
06/12/2013 10:07 PMPosted by sheltem
*They exists*, but they do not drop. You couldn't even killed Ubers in NL if I remember correctly. Keys didn't drop. Playing NL was inferior to playing Ladder because Ladder had more content. You had more things to do in Ladder. You could go hunt keys. You could hunt runes. You could do MF runs. You could do Uber runs. You had a lot more variety of runs in Ladder.It forces people, who would otherwise not play Ladder, to play it.


Selective memory?

You could and still can do ALL of those things in NL!

Maybe you are confusing Classic vs LoD with ladder vs nl.


You could do runewords in NL? AFAIK, they carry over, but you cannot make them.

http://extreme-gamerz.org/diablo2/viewdiablo2/runewordsrealmladder

The following rune words will work only for realm ladder play. If your on realms, you must be playing in the current "season" for the ladder, or you will not be able to create these runes. Once created they are permanent however. Another words, if the season is over and your character containing one of these items is moved with the other old ladder characters, you will still have the rune word and be able to trade it with other non-ladder realm characters.


(I did not write that mini paragraph)

It's been a long time, but didn't Ladder also have exclusive items that will only drop in it? Why would people wait for them to transfer to NL when they could farm it...........
@doombringer:

The guy I was quoting thought u couldn't get keys or do ubers or do MF or hunt runes or any of that.
He is wrong.

Yes there are a FEW runewords that are ladder only, but all of that "content" he was referring to IS in NON-ladder.

And yes there are a FEW unique items that only drop in ladder.
- How would you ideally like that system to work?
On a separate sever just like Normal & Hardcore.

- How long would you like the resets to be?
1 - 2 months. Leaving the season going long enough for everyone to get everything completed is pointless. It's meant to be a competitive server & not everyone should be able to complete what is there to be done.

- How many characters do you think players should be able to create for ladders? (Do you think they should take up the existing slots you have?)
As many as they can complete in the allotted time frame. 5 more character slots would be reasonable since there's currently 5 for Normal & 5 for Hardcore.

- Should there be an auction house for ladder characters?
No, not at all. I would even remove the ability for players to trade items. It would be a competitive server, you achieve by playing, not buying.

- Should there be any special items or perks for ladder-only characters? If so, what kind?
There's ot really any need for anything extra to be added. At the end of the season each players progress could be ranked by, Character played, Paragon level reached, Achievements completed, Hero Score, Raw DPS, Mobs Killed, etc.

- What kind of restrictions, if any, should be placed on ladder characters?
Without having the AH's & being able to trade items are the only restrictions needed.

- Do think players should be able to bring their ladder characters into "non-ladder" once a reset is complete?
Not at all. What happens on the server stays on the server. Once the season ends, players would have the option to either delete or archive their characters in the lobby menu. Just like the option players have when a Hardcore character dies.

- Is it necessary for ladders to be competitive, or is it enough for players to just see for themselves how far they can go on their own?
The ladder rankings would be more than enough for single players & for clans that compete in groups, they can arrange their won special tasks if they want to add extras to what they already have to achieve.

- Why would ladders improve your in-game experience?
It would be like playing a shotgun version of the game. Where all you get is what you pick up. It would bring a bit life back into the game.
06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- How would you ideally like that system to work?


A system similar to Diablo 2 would be great, it's what gave the game life beyond what was ever expected.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- How long would you like the resets to be?


Quarterly is appropriate in my eyes. 3 months is enough time to gear a self-found character quite well and this would keep the ladder culture fresh and exciting.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- How many characters do you think players should be able to create for ladders? (Do you think they should take up the existing slots you have?)


Absolutely. If they don't like how a ladder character is turning out they should be able to reroll, this would be at their own expense.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Should there be an auction house for ladder characters?


I personally think there shouldn't be. The same goes for any type of trading such as p2p and in-game 'drop trades', this is the only way to make the ladder scenario pay2win-free.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Should there be any special items or perks for ladder-only characters? If so, what kind?


Perhaps a base movement speed boost of 10-20% on ladder characters would be fun and make the process a bit more exciting, but I really don't see the need for any perks.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- What kind of restrictions, if any, should be placed on ladder characters?


No (RM)AH, no p2p tade, no drop trade. Progression should also be restricted to linearity, so no joining public/friends games to skip content.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Do think players should be able to bring their ladder characters into "non-ladder" once a reset is complete?


Yes, without a doubt. It would be rather punishing for a player to lose everything they've earned when the season finishes.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Is it necessary for ladders to be competitive, or is it enough for players to just see for themselves how far they can go on their own?


Well ladders are competitive by nature, hence the term ladder. But it's also completely viable for non-competitive players to enter a ladder season just to see how far they can go.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Why would ladders improve your in-game experience?


It would be a blast to give the Diablo 3 community the endgame we've all been hoping for. A ladder season is something that can continue simultaneously while the devs work towards improving the game and adding any features (not to mention it would take a lot of the heat off them as people will be busy playing). A ladder season would also bring players back to the game in droves, I know for a fact that high profile players like Kripparrian would return in an instant. It's really just a win-win situation, I'm struggling to think of a downside.
06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
I'm not a huge fan of threads that simply are looking for "+1" comments (since that doesn't really let us know why something is meaningful to you, just that you want it), so let's turn this around.


06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
Second, now time for the details! What exactly would you want from a ladder system? For example:


06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- How would you ideally like that system to work?


I believe the system should work in a semi-competitive manner. That is, the ladder keeps track of players' progress and displays a leader board, perhaps capable of being sorted by level, paragon level, ladder achievement points, and profile stats (DPS, HP/EHP, CHC, CHD, IAS)

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- How long would you like the resets to be?


If you intend to include Paragon Levels as part of the rankings, 4-6 months. Players that burn through PLs now will still burn through them there too, but slower players will still get a chance to see how they stacked up against the majority rather than just be shut out completely due to a ladder season that is too short. Making it too short makes players that aren't able to slave away at their characters day and night feel like they're being excluded and/or aren't progressing, even if they are progressing.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- How many characters do you think players should be able to create for ladders? (Do you think they should take up the existing slots you have?)


This one is sort of a tough one since it in many ways conflicts with the interests of two groups.

The first and simpler answer would be to give players ten extra character slots specifically for Ladder characters and those characters converted to non-Ladder after the season ends. Converted characters could be moved to the main character slots at the expense of an existing character if desired, but if left to sit in the Ladder slots, they would take up available slots for Ladder specific characters until deleted or transferred.

The reason for ten character slots is to both accomodate Ladder and Converted characters while also leaving enough room for both Softcore and Hardcore characters of each class in a fresh Ladder.

The more complicated answer is that players have been asking for a restoration of the six stash slots from the Diablo III beta also. But that takes up a non-trivial amount of server space even on its own. While the system may be able to handle either a stash increase or a character slot increase, it may or may not be able to accomodate both in terms of raw space. Space is fairly cheap these days, but that also means backups take more space as well in addition to possible lengthening of maintenance windows from the two hour minimum (when not doing rolling restarts instead) due to much more data being backed up.

Unfortunately, it may come down to whether or not the decision is made to increase stash size, which would be a huge quality of life measure for players since storing all of the items in various characters leaves little room for those characters to hold anything during their adventures and more frequent return trips to town for identification/vendoring/salvaging. Part of the return trips could be offset by giving players "mobile" salvaging and identification options built into the inventory UI. There is space for buttons for such functionality and it would mean that the option to create Ladder specific character slots has more merit in the end.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Should there be an auction house for ladder characters?


Honestly, a truely sustainable Ladder that isn't skewed requires not having an auction house. The reason for that is that when players purchase goods outside of trading in a venue such as the auction house which lends to far more ease in bypassing the grind, they get artificial bumps in their power and thus their ability to maintain rank or exceed their current rank status. Players could still do so via trading, but it would be greatly reduced in terms of the impact it has on the ladder overall due to bartering being much less efficient and players having to find their own items to barter with first.

However, in a pure Ladder no trading would be allowed. That may be the best course of action to prevent any tainting of results at all.

Drop rates would need to be greatly enhanced for legendaries (especially legendary crafting plans) and/or quality of loot dramatically bumped up since this would essentially be a sort of "self found" mode with the only artificial boosts coming from trading (like Diablo 2 had).

Unfortunately an actual competitive ladder, even a semi-competitive version, cannot have an auction house or else it taints the results and diminishes the players' sense of accomplishment.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Should there be any special items or perks for ladder-only characters? If so, what kind?


This is a contentious issue, and one that drove many many people away from Ladder, and off of Battle.net completely in fact in Diablo 2.

Personally, I hated the Ladder-Only runewords so much that I ditched my twelve accounts across USWest and USEast which were stocked to the brim with LV 80+ characters and went solo offline and used mods that let me access Ladder-Only runewords so I could enjoy the entire game without the clock or stress.

Having Ladder-Only perks that are tangible (gear and/or items) is a huge detractor for many people. And due to the ticking clock on Ladder seasons, players that aren't able to squander their lives away building up their characters will ultimately feel excluded here too and lose interest, potentially with the actual game itself. You see what it did to me - it drove me off of Battle.net completely since I was deprived of enjoyment that Ladder players got to have. With perks like gear or items, it becomes the Diablo equivalant of Raid-Only content (using WoW as a comparison here since it is rather applicable).

Any perks would need to be cosmetic or for prestige value alone. Such perks could be Ladder specific titles that are passed down to the characters at the end of the season, giving players more of a reason to choose to keep them and show them off in the non-Ladder environment or things like being able to attach titles to your equipment/weapons as a personalization perk. These types of perks would showcase your efforts rather than simply make non-Ladder players feel left out and screwed over.

Players should gain a Feat of Strength for ranking in a top leaderboard position for that Ladder season. These could work like World of Warcraft's Arena Season achievements that show a player participated in a particular season and proved him/herself worthy of praise as a result of their efforts.

Ladder should be roughly equivalant to the Challenge Modes in WoW: MoP where rewards are cosmetic and denote prestige instead of outright eqiupment and item boosts that leave outsiders feeling alienated.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- What kind of restrictions, if any, should be placed on ladder characters?


Given that there would (hopefully) be no auction house involved, I see no real reason to restrict Ladder players any more than we would restrict non-Ladder players since the game is still the same, only Ladder is semi-competitive.

Penalties though, for abuse of game mechanics (i.e. exploiting bugs) or other illicit or harmful/harassing actions would need to be increased or enhanced though, up to and including permanent banishment from Ladder content if the severity of the malicious actions warrant such a penalty.

Ladders, being at least somewhat competitive and prestigious requires more strict adherence to the rules and stronger penalties for ignoring them. Harassment deserves a zero tolerance policy, as this is supposed to be a community based competition, not a Battle Royale.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Do think players should be able to bring their ladder characters into "non-ladder" once a reset is complete?


Yes. Players deserve to be able to feel attachment to something they worked harder to build up and achieve goals with. Simply wiping them out after the season ends kills both player satisfaction and lessens attachment to their efforts during Ladder. It may also contribute to less of a feeling that integrity as a player is required resulting in more inappropriate behaviour by players during the Ladder season.

Reinforcement in a game should be positive, not negative. Currently nearly everything in this game acts as negative reinforcement, from the itemization, drop rates, and affixes on monsters (lack of skill based challenges FTL). Adding to that for Ladder is something that should be avoided at all costs.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Is it necessary for ladders to be competitive, or is it enough for players to just see for themselves how far they can go on their own?


As stated above, making the Ladders have content only available to them would take away too much from players that can't devote large sums of time and energy to a Ladder style season. But the Ladder itself is competitive simply by design. You strive to be better than others. That's what a Ladder is for whether it's in a sanctioned tournament or a community based race. There will always be some competitive aspect to a Ladder. Making it meaningful after the fact via the perk system noted above is what differentiates it from the other half of the game. And if it has no auction house, each season gets a fresh start on the economy as it were as a bonus.

06/12/2013 05:00 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Why would ladders improve your in-game experience?


Ladders would give players incentive to strive to be more than they are now and give them challenges that are not present in an infinite-time setting where the player is not limited in any way. And depending on how you play, Ladder may also incentivize team-based play as there may be teams that work to help each other move past other players on the Ladder while at the same time competing with each other internally. That can make for a very exciting race for many people.
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I would love to see some sort of ladder system added into the game. One thing that Path of Exile does incredibly well is the different leagues. They help what would otherwise be a mediocre Diablo 2 clone become quite fun & challenging.

C'mon Blizzard, you pioneered the addition of ladders to the ARPG genre, and yet you've let them fall by the wayside. You need to step up (haha) and OWN them again!
See Diablo 2.

/All your BS answered in one fell swoop.


See above for why this is not true.
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