Game punishes you for being different.

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Kill if it was only 1% difference that would be fantastic. But its more like 100% difference between the top 3 WD builds and the next tier.
07/01/2013 06:28 PMPosted by Keltest
have you actually gone and tested this? or are you just reading one possible interpretation of the tooltip and assuming you have to be right in the face of all logic?


Yea I tested it and I'm right.
How can you complain about build diversity and choose Witch Doctors as your target? I have seen many various builds of the Witch Doctor including the Cloud of Bats but also the Pet wrangler with Zombie Dogs, Gargantuan, and fetish Army with the Sycophant's Passive. I have also seen WD builds that use Hungry Bats and Vampire bats instead of the cloud. There are also builds that use the Zombie Bears, Mass Confusion and Big Bad Voodoo.

What I have not seen is a lot of variation in the melee builds. Every monk or barb is a Whirlwind and Cyclone build. Not that I have anything against those builds, I use them myself, but these builds certainly stand out more to me than Cloud of Bats Witch Doctors.
07/01/2013 06:31 PMPosted by Grimiku
Do you feel that there are no builds even close to the Cloud of Bats build(s)?
In terms of straight DMG no. It's 1008%DMG per second AoE.
Grimiku.

look at the actual build diversity amoung WDs.. It's really about 90% COB.

Bears does great damage but 140mana sustain vs 66 is crazy. 0 dog does do good damage as well.

So maybe there are 3 builds that rate... Which i am told is high for our class and COB is hands down the best.

Look at the AH, there literally dozens of high end strings of skulls with zbear reduction right now. That's because people are abandoning multi billion gold items to go to COB. This is not a matter of people jumping on the build out of curiosity.

ALL builds are Life steal based. None are Life on hit based anymore. Procs don't matter.
Sure not all the skills can be equal but if you don't pick exactly the cookie cutter build of the moment you simply suffer in terms of performance. In what universe do you have a skill that does 1000% damage (cloud of bats) for 66 mana and not expect every single WD to jump on it?

I'm sick of trying to have a different kind of build, im sick of being punished for not wanting the same build as everyone else.

Build diversity is joke in this game.


Thank you for your feedback! Build diversity is a big topic, and something we're always interested in hearing about. I think there will always be a build that yields the highest performance, but the question is about the variance. Do you feel that there are no builds even close to the Cloud of Bats build(s)?


I wouldnt say no builds. But there are very few builds that are close to the ones at the top of the efficiency charts. I think each class seems to have just one or two (maybe three) choices for top end builds. And yes the rest dont really come close to being as efficient. I mean you guys have the data. Cant you look through the builds and see that a majority are only using a few of the builds? And I am not talking about all builds in general and taking into account people playing low MP speed builds or leveling builds. How many different builds are you guys seeing people play in MP10?
Sure not all the skills can be equal but if you don't pick exactly the cookie cutter build of the moment you simply suffer in terms of performance. In what universe do you have a skill that does 1000% damage (cloud of bats) for 66 mana and not expect every single WD to jump on it?

I'm sick of trying to have a different kind of build, im sick of being punished for not wanting the same build as everyone else.

Build diversity is joke in this game.


Thank you for your feedback! Build diversity is a big topic, and something we're always interested in hearing about. I think there will always be a build that yields the highest performance, but the question is about the variance. Do you feel that there are no builds even close to the Cloud of Bats build(s)?


ask this in the wizard forum.

Youll be in for a ride.
Sure not all the skills can be equal but if you don't pick exactly the cookie cutter build of the moment you simply suffer in terms of performance. In what universe do you have a skill that does 1000% damage (cloud of bats) for 66 mana and not expect every single WD to jump on it?

I'm sick of trying to have a different kind of build, im sick of being punished for not wanting the same build as everyone else.

Build diversity is joke in this game.


Thank you for your feedback! Build diversity is a big topic, and something we're always interested in hearing about. I think there will always be a build that yields the highest performance, but the question is about the variance. Do you feel that there are no builds even close to the Cloud of Bats build(s)?


Seriously can you do something about 95% of the Barbs going Hurricane WW and ToC? Change some damn numbers
07/01/2013 06:31 PMPosted by Grimiku
Thank you for your feedback! Build diversity is a big topic, and something we're always interested in hearing about. I think there will always be a build that yields the highest performance, but the question is about the variance. Do you feel that there are no builds even close to the Cloud of Bats build(s)?


You guys have the spec data, you tell us.

Give us a graphic even like in the old developer journal concerning Warcry:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7155884/developer-journal-defensive-bonuses-and-monster-damage-9-14-2012
I guess I am part of the 5% on my barb. I used to run a sprint/ww build but found it to have no challenge whatsoever and have since changed to a rend/hota build and am actually enjoying my barb again.
Buffing thorns would be a start. Fierce loyalty would become a serious passive for consideration at higher MP levels. I don't know if Fierce Loyalty works on fetishes from Fetish Army, Fetish Sycophants, or Gidbinn fetishes but if it did... Fierce Loyalty + thorn buff = cool possibilities.

A man can dream...
07/01/2013 06:57 PMPosted by Sungrey
Thank you for your feedback! Build diversity is a big topic, and something we're always interested in hearing about. I think there will always be a build that yields the highest performance, but the question is about the variance. Do you feel that there are no builds even close to the Cloud of Bats build(s)?


You guys have the spec data, you tell us.

Give us a graphic even like in the old developer journal concerning Warcry


Please this.

I know it goes against your policies to reveal too much of the "bad sides" of the game but you could and should be transparent. Show at least some.
many runes really need to be tweaked on the numbers.
Sure not all the skills can be equal but if you don't pick exactly the cookie cutter build of the moment you simply suffer in terms of performance. In what universe do you have a skill that does 1000% damage (cloud of bats) for 66 mana and not expect every single WD to jump on it?

I'm sick of trying to have a different kind of build, im sick of being punished for not wanting the same build as everyone else.

Build diversity is joke in this game.


Thank you for your feedback! Build diversity is a big topic, and something we're always interested in hearing about. I think there will always be a build that yields the highest performance, but the question is about the variance. Do you feel that there are no builds even close to the Cloud of Bats build(s)?


i smell nerf
07/01/2013 06:32 PMPosted by blackjack
Kill if it was only 1% difference that would be fantastic. But its more like 100% difference between the top 3 WD builds and the next tier.


Well in D3 yes it is that big of a gap. It's also kind of pointless and not fun to level new characters, so the only thing to do really is grind the end game for more drops for your main, so you feel that efficiency gap ALL the time.
zombie bears are'nt even close.. sigh
07/01/2013 06:31 PMPosted by Grimiku
Do you feel that there are no builds even close to the Cloud of Bats build(s)?


I like to run Well of Souls/Bears combo

Works great melting face at a good pace on MP 7, i'm sure if I had GG gear it would do MP 10 great too!

For the cost of standing still and not being able to move, with high initial mana cost, bats are great as is.

With higher attack speed, the mana cost to keep it up is absurd.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8568960808?page=6#118

04/19/2013 03:21 PMPosted by Nubtro
I dislike the fact that people talk about 1000% weapon damage per second, because that only applies to 1.00 aps. The skill doesn´t apply damage once per second. It applies (half) the tooltip damage twice per second at 1.00 aps (each 30 frames) and the more aps you have, the faster it ticks.The scaling formula is


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07/01/2013 07:50 PMPosted by Edwarrior
zombie bears are'nt even close.. sigh


You must not know how to aim them >.>

There are tactics you can use to make all 3 hit, and with good equipment, some people could have a near infinite bears, with less than 5 seconds delay before you regen to max mana.

Depending on skill, bears are still better than bats. L2P
07/01/2013 06:31 PMPosted by Grimiku
Thank you for your feedback! Build diversity is a big topic, and something we're always interested in hearing about. I think there will always be a build that yields the highest performance, but the question is about the variance. Do you feel that there are no builds even close to the Cloud of Bats build(s)?


It's all about survival of the fittest.

As a witch doctor in HC that just hit level 60 and a person who doesn't abuse the AH like no tomorrow, I love myself sticking with the vampire bats.

A Hint for Blizzard: The environment plays a major role on what skills a player chooses for their character. Please, please, please, at least do something with the monsters to make people think about what skills would be best for certain monsters and what skills would be worse. Magnify this part and you will win every player's heart.
07/01/2013 06:31 PMPosted by Grimiku
Thank you for your feedback! Build diversity is a big topic, and something we're always interested in hearing about. I think there will always be a build that yields the highest performance, but the question is about the variance. Do you feel that there are no builds even close to the Cloud of Bats build(s)?


Yeah a lot of people that main Demon Hunters like to use Rain of Vengance, even the users that main Monks like to use Seven Sided Strikes, but the fact to wait 30 seconds to use it, its... sad...

In the case of Demon Hunter, a class that requieres a good use of survivality, people dont going to sacrifice a skill of those just for use Rain of Vengance.

IMHO, D3 not only needs a "Itemization" also needs an "Skillmization".

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