The Five Kingdoms: Barbarian Wing

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Yeah true morph.. I didn't see that point. But I dunno if it's effective to go with wd..

My ideal setup will be 2 barbs monk and cm.

Monk for the buffs
Barbs for dmg
Cm for the ubers cc


Bro I think I'll be a spectator.. there are better non barb class players out there and our barb slots are taken by the best :)
Chazhang hands down. With very good gaming skills and micro-control of his barb(I've experienced this first hand) and the best theorycrafting I've seen.

Death for the 2nd barb candidate, which I think would fit perfectly in Chaz's team, because of his experience with ubers (taking on det0x's world record), which directly shows his understanding of positioning, and control over his barb to make sure both targets are HotA-ed together.
I'd like to volunteer for that. I play with all chars so it's safe to say I know em all

Adi P500
I think Death has a point on the DW coment >_>

When I'm doing carries, I actually dislike having CM wiz that stay alive and freezes ubers for too long, because that means I take less damage and do not regenerate fury fast enough, loosing wrath in the process. DW would make this easier. Or we could dump the Wiz all together lol.
But ya, maybe one barb with an ias skorn and 5 ias pieces (1.83 bp) would provide better damage output (even with bloodthirst) than a DW set within that budget. Not sure though. As Silverfire pointed, somewhat decent Skorns tend to be a lot pricey.

If I have the chance, I'll ask a CM to do some testing with me. I'll be at the 1.83 BP and he'd perma freeze ubers and I'll see how perma wrath goes. I would do this by downgrading my gear and damage output, so the fight takes longer (or adding another 2 dead to the game) and it would be clear if I could permawrath easily or not.

@Nubtro, I'd love to help out if I can. Would it suffice if I just posted some vids of me taking damage from each individual boss/ubers? I'm not sure how I can assist with your mitigation theorycrafting.
ah ic. :P


are any wizzies even doing this comp ? cant find a post over there
This sounds like a lot of fun. I might have missed it but will there be videos? Would love to see this in action. I think 2 Barbs, a Monk and a WD would provide a great group. WD has good damage buffs as well as a big hitter in CoB. Good luck with the competition. Eagerly waiting for the results.
07/16/2013 05:41 AMPosted by SpizyDryRub
This sounds like a lot of fun. I might have missed it but will there be videos? Would love to see this in action. I think 2 Barbs, a Monk and a WD would provide a great group. WD has good damage buffs as well as a big hitter in CoB. Good luck with the competition. Eagerly waiting for the results.

The challenge hasn't happened yet. Just now getting started with planning and such.

When I thought about cm in the setup.. I was thinking of a really low budget one like 100mil hence allowing the gear oriented class to have better equips and dps output. Never thought about sustaining perm wrath as a issue since all barbs in this challenge should be a master anyway.
@Llama I think for the Ubers and hitting both of them perma wrath will be OK but the single bosses will be a pain. 1.67 might not be enough but Hota/bash have many breakpoints in between 1.67-1.83 that might be worth testing. Either way if one of them runs WC they won't be hitting 100%CC with Hota which I guessing would be the candidate for DW. The wizards AS% bubble might be able to push a skorn over the edge it needs as well though for single targets?

I re-read the challenge as well and ya.... Just ignore my previous nirvana comment. Much less trash and elite farming than I first figured :p

WD/Monk/Barb/Barb would be nice as well (my usual farming group is Monk/WD/Me) but CM is just so useful for positioning on Bosses.
I usually run 1.67 aps. If I add my lacuni's or Inna's, I go up 2 bps, but not quite at 1.83. I feel just a small difference in fury management though. That's why I was thinking of testing the 1.83.

Perhaps Wiz ias buble could push this setup to the 1.83 too, or push a 1.83 setup to an even higher one. Worth testing/discussing.
A point to remember about the CM wiz participating is that ping is also a factor along with gear, skill and paragon
I have a well geared WD if you need me for testing/ the team etc.
07/16/2013 12:39 AMPosted by Death
OK I have been nominated over and over in this thread and people are talking like I'm already on team barb yet in sliverfire's list of nominee's I'm no where to be found? Did I miss something?

You've been playing too much like a scrub on your demon hunter lately. Nothing but qq on act 1, not even sure you're capable of getting 2 nv stacks without having to get some kleenex. Also andariels...I don't think you can be trusted for gearing advice.

In seriousness, I'm updating the op to list you as captain. It was so obvious that I neglected to do so earlier.
wish i was playing for barb team. i like you guys :(

i think i may just sit this comp out and wait til another one arises
focus on p100 for my barby.
@Silverfire - you can remove my name from the list of nominees. I will participate in discussion and be in the cheer section though! :)
My brain´s not working properly anymore as I´ve been testing Belial skills all day and that breath attack gets on my nerves...

tl;dr those exploding things on the ground that deal the most damage are called "Lightning Strike" according to the official guide and surprisingly deal lightning damage. I refrain from commenting on this one because it took me hours to figure out the hard way because I thought it was either poison or physical, go figure...

The max damage I was hit during the day from that attack was 674K.

phase 1
"Melee" physical melee max 135K max damage 135K
"Fire Balls" ranged element who cares max damage n/a

phase 2
"Melee" physical melee type arm swings 528K max damage
"Ground Pound" physical melee type 3 attack combo 3rd strike 370K max smash damage
"Lightning Breath" ranged elemental attack 218K max
"Lightning Strikes" ranged lightning element max 674K damage

Basically the attacks to look out for here are the single arm smashes that deal physical melee damage and the exploding "strikes" that deal ranged lightning damage. The pound combo is very rare, all 3 attacks shouldn´t hit you even if you tried and the breath attack isn´t that strong.

I´ll leave the data here if only as proof that I really researched this lol...
BELIAL phase1
- can be CCed
max health 83,055,240 (1 player), ??? (4 players)
swing: 5823-10110
10110, 9366, 8172, 6326, 6911, 9620, 7708, 7297, 7045, 5823, 8022, 8076, 8821, 7941, 8307, 8281, 9979, 8985
- ranged: 12316, 11758

BELIAL phase2
max health 221,480,656 (1 player), ??? (4 players)

left swing 21104-37283 21104, 36631, 37283, 29758
right swing 31069-36978 31069, 36978, 33222, 35071, 36707
combo n/a
breath 10599-18254 10599, 12617, 13338, 18254
strikes (ip) 13414-16496 13412, 15357, 14022, 13866, 13808, 14455, 16496, 14153,
strikes 40153-44983 40153, 42208, 43926, 44983, 41038

test 1
innate 30% 0.7
armor 9175 0.255578093306288
physical 358 0.4680534918276374
poison 434 0.4205607476635514
melee 3+6 0.9118
ranged 0
total physical 0.0837369533046605 0.0837 melee 0.0763513540231894
total poison 0.0752402798051222 0.0752 melee 0.0686040871263104
phase1 swing 10143, 9191, 10482, 8641, 10502, 9575, 10678
phase 2
left n/a
right 37506, 36388, 37332
combo n/a
breath 17896
strikes (ip) 18970, 18757, 19308
strikes 49099

test 2
innate 30% 0.7
armor 7153 0.3057361933417451
physical 480 0.3962264150943396
poison 825 0.2763157894736842
melee 4% 0.96
total physical 0.0847985290966727 0.0848 melee 0.0814065879328058
total poison 0.0591358163437323 0.0591 melee 0.056770383689983
phase1 swing 6727, 5160, 6566, 5792, 5059, 4595, 6699, 6499, 6922
phase1 ranged 11836

phase 2
left 20060
right 27108, 25799, 19111, 23362, 15026
combo x-11192-18983
breath 13943, 12131
strikes (ip) 15335, 15076, 17567, 15573, 43074-50192
strikes 47018, 42360, 50189 14826-17567

innate 30% 0.7
armor 8705 0.265710670603121
physical 780 0.2876712328767123
lightning 454 0.4096228868660598 <------
poison 502 0.3855569155446756
melee 4% 0.96
total physical 0.0535061213406285 0.0535 melee 0.0513658764870033
total poison 0.0717126106095326 0.0717 melee 0.0688441061851513
total lightning 0.076188820374497 0.0762 melee 0.0731412675595171
innate 30% 0.7
armor 8166 0.2783669141039236
physical 568
cold 516
fire 516
lightning 790 0.2850678733031674
poison 564
arcane 516
melee 0%
total lightning 0.0555474249410997

p1ranged 11777, 13715, 13177
melee 25712, 36086, 36795,
breath 14166, 12396
strikes 34935, 34233, 31405, 31828, 34452
strikes (ip) 12373, 11250, 13101, 10844, 12915, 13040
innate 30% 0.7
armor 8606 0.2679482817284791
physical 468
cold 468
fire 682
lightning 574
poison 468
arcane 468

p1ranged 11126, 11818, 14099, 11443, 14215, 10862, 12982, 14919, 11855, 13908, 13047
melee 33447, 34928, 21611, 30560, 37504, 37915, 34103, 30381, 34111, 23575, 31824
breath 9623, 10816, 14673, 11231, 12737, 13712, 14978, 11683
strikes 40617,
strikes (ip) 12308, 13254,
innate 30% 0.7
armor 5061 0.384
physical 476 0.398 0.107 total
cold 423 0.427 0.115 total
fire 457 0.408 0.111 total
lightning 423 0.427 0.115 total
poison 423 0.427 0.115 total
arcane 766 0.291 0.078 total

MP0 test *2.500953065080659 = MP10
p1ranged 6473 max
breath 4603-8230 (100K-179K if lightnig)
innate 30% 0.7
armor 5052 0.384
physical 580 0.352 0.095 total
cold 528 0.374 0.101 total
fire 606 0.342 0.092 total
lightning 802 0.282 0.076 total
poison 528 0.374 0.101 total
arcane 528 0.374 0.101 total

MP0 test *2.500953065080659 = MP10
breath 3142-5328 (103K-175K if lightning)
strikes 11605-13762 (382K-453K)

innate 30% 0.7
armor 6032 0.343
physical 357 0.469 0.1126 total
cold 357 0.469 0.1126 total
fire 576 0.354 0.0850 total
lightning 357 0.469 0.1126 total
poison 404 0.438 0.1052 total
arcane 357 0.469 0.1126 total

MP0 test *2.500953065080659 = MP10
breath 5579-8323
Yea. Now that I think about it DW would probably do better in this type of challenge. Don't have to worry about fear and can run spear OH ftw!

As for the whole idea of gearing a monk for DPS. When a monk is playing a supporting role, the DPS they provide comes from EP (which doesn't scale off of sheet DPS), FoT quickening (165% sheet DPS) and cyclone strike (313% dmg of mainhand but I think there's an APS modifier on it). Spending extra gold to beef up our monk from say 10k to 150k dps means that we're getting maybe (lets give it a generous 2x multiplier of sheet dps) 280k*2.25 (party is getting +125% dmg from monk and wiz) = 630k more group DPS.

If instead we were to spend that money on our HotA barbs and boost them from 200 to 250k dps...
Right now with 392k passive buffed sheet DPS with the party buffs my HotA DPS would be 13.2M vs elites(this doesn't even include conflag which we normally don't run) which is a 33x multiplier. So a 200k sheet HotA barb can be expected to pump out around ~6.6M DPS, and a 250k DPS one would be around ~8.3M meaning we would gain 1.8M more group DPS.

Similarly, for a SNS CM hitting 1 or 2 targets which is what most of our encounters are going to be, the sheet multiplier is going to be quite low. Keep in mind that in a party of 4, an SNS wiz should almost ALWAYS drop their storm armor shocking aspect for 20% dmg bubble (if running TP) and will normally go for bone chill as well. The exact skills on a normal SNS build is designed for solo play but I'm going pretend our CM is silly and only caring about his own DPS for the next simulation.

Using the CMWW simulator for a pretty GG wiz that has really high crit and APS (I used boozor) on a single target you can get a multiplier of around 5x sheet DPS pre party and 9x with a monk; for 2 targets it increases to around 7x or 12.5x with a monk. But to attain those numbers we're giving up a potential 20+15+10%=45% dmg bonus (~25% relative bonus on top of monk buffs) for the 2 barbs. On a 200k DPS barb thats a loss of 1.65M (6.6*0.25) eDPS or a total of 3.3M between the two of them. That 3.3M eDPS loss, given the 11.5x multiplier on an SNS wiz with 2 targets could only be made up by a 264k sheet DPS wiz.

Given that we want to gear our wiz for max freeze, we're liking getting bifecta pieces where we can already and bumping those up to trifectas becomes a much more expensive way of obtaining sheet DPS. I'm not suggesting we make like a 30M suuuper budget CM, but rather get a decent CM (maybe 100k sheet?) that has great freeze and gained most of their dps through IAS and CrC instead of ChD and avg dmg. Something like 250-500M budget for the CM.

IMO the support monk on the other hand has such a horrible multiplier relative to the rest of the group that spending anything more than the absolute minimum is really a bit of a waste.
dw is def better for belial

fast sustain > slow sustain

same way i world first face tanked him in sns spec on wiz :)
I'd like to volunteer for that. I play with all chars so it's safe to say I know em all

Adi P500

Very impressive profile sir.

I'll read your data when I have time to digest it Nubtro :)

Good point about bifectas vs trifectas Chaz. I think it'll be best to think about what we need from the CM and monk and take it from there. DPS comes fairly natural with a well-built CM wizard because the innate crit chance at attack speed are such powerful damage multipliers. Just reaching 2.74 with decent gear will probably cost in the 500M territory and end up in the low 100k DPS range unbuffed. From there we'd have to decide if there's any need for more.
07/15/2013 10:35 AMPosted by silverfire
Hope you're interested in partaking in this, you certainly have my vote.

I'm willing to participate, I have P100 barb and monk, and P90+ wizard too. Most of my uber experience is with monk and barb though, as I used to do uber carries on those classes.

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