Loot 2.0: You made the same mistakes again

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- how are the developers going to balance runes such as Faith In the Light (+30% damage) as opposed to Self Reflection (+1 second duration). Who on Earth will ever pick the SR rune?

They could add rune modifiers to items, instead of skill modifiers.

More to the point, they could only add modifiers to the less popular runes as a way to make them more useful than the +damage runes.

Like, if you could blind ubers for 5 seconds, using SR, would you find that better than the + damage?
More to the point, they could only add modifiers to the less popular runes as a way to make them more useful than the +damage runes.

Like, if you could blind ubers for 5 seconds, using SR, would you find that better than the + damage?

Lots of the runes would need a complete overhaul to compete with this damage. Practically these skills and runes will need patch after patch and constant adjustments to get them on par. Also modifiers such as these make the skills too convoluted. Is this modifier going to work on Elites or Bosses? Which ones? What if it breaks the boss mechanics? What if its too good on some bosses and useless at the rest of the game? Is this modifier going to be displayed on the skill description? Is it too confusing to comprehend how it work without knowing the actual math formula?

Or we could just, you know, not have numbers that are out of control?

The developers are confused. They think we want to find "upgrades," but that's not the case. I'm sure everyone wants to farm interesting affixes that compliment skills.

I can't see that happening with the linear and uninspired design.


I think you'll find, that you're in the vast minority on that one. I'm not saying people don't want interesting things to find, but people want upgrades at the same time. They want to feel like they are becoming more powerful, they want to feel like they are improving vs monsters. They want to make the climb from mp0 to mp10.
08/26/2013 12:21 PMPosted by familia
Loot 2.0 is still in progress, and we'll be sharing more details as things develop. In the meantime we will be gathering feedback, and making sure your concerns are brought up. While on the subject, though, I'd like to point out that a single Legendary may or may not be enough to change your build, but it's important to take into consideration that it's likely that you'll have multiple Legendary items. Personally, I have an easier time imagining some interesting alternative mechanics when I think about multiple Legendary item effects working at once. Just something to think about while we wait for more information about Loot 2.0.

That's great, but what about rare items? Legendary gimmicks seem to be the only focus, but will rares have a chance to compete? Why should we rely on dismal drop rates for any chance of diversity? Rare items should roll interesting affixes as well.

I'll echo this.

Rares should almost roll just as good as legendaries.
OP and the guys from http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9741594163?page=2 are correct.

Been away from D3 for months, come to look because of the expansion news, and if this is the limit of creativity Bliz can think of, I think I'll stay away from D3 and it's expansion.

The serpent ward, it was supposed to be Showcase item (item shown for the sake of promotion), but it seems lack in overall including the thoughts behind it, Bliz could have shown better item or is that the best item Bliz can think of?

Hopefully I'm misreading the impact of the item for the game, and Blizzard did better than I think. Any case, some suggestion that add depth to the whatever Hydra item (And for better loot 2.0):
-Hydra never do fix and useless damage (Fail example: HF ring fireball skill is garbage once you reach Inferno.) (Some legendaries that currently proc fixed dmg skill is considered having a garbage affix)
-Hydra will spawn with rune abilities similar to Rune equipped to the Wizard Hydra Skill, if the Wizard is equipping Hydra skill with Rune.
-Spawn Hydra on other condition besides auto attacking (or auto spell cast), honestly, percentage rarely provides skill play as well as tactical play.

And no Potion system remake? I thought it was well voiced that the current potion system is lame, and a fail money sink.
Once more the "devs" will lose the opportunity to use their most magnificent and fantastic weapon: PTR realm. They could spare a trillion hours of work, simply allowing the community test any of these "fantastic changes" (really a change?) in something that will work or not.
They listen some feedback, but the core questions STILL in game. Here only in this topic we have VERY GOOD IDEAS of how make stuff a little better, but they are "too busy" trying to create miraculous solutions without even test them with the most important thing in game: The players.
Here are some of the "concerns" that RoS has to address.

-Crit damage on a weapon is still a must. And it shouldn't be that way.

-Intellect on a spirit stone. Dexterity on a Mighty weapon. And the stat that should be there isn't.

-ilvl 63 items rolling stat/affix ranges worse than items of lower ilvl.
Personally, I agree that the system lacks the sort of imagination that comes from a great development team.

There are a lot of terrible items in the game and realistically, all items are going to be terrible unless they have 80% affixes available that include: socket(s), attack speed, crit damage, crit chance, main stat, resist all, vitality and I'm sure I'm missing one. 99% of items are going to be missing nearly all of these in any quantity.

What if some of the terrible items had something interesting about them? What if you had something like a set bonus that rendered you completely invisible to your enemy?

What if one of them dropped a random dye on an elite kill?

Maybe a sword sings to you?

What if a hat gave you infravision?

What if there was a wand that changed a witch doctor's flaming bat animation into a ghostly, rampaging herd of cows?

I dunno! Something!? You guys have spent so much time trying to create the perfect item drop system that you forgot to make a game to go along with it.

I know its awhile off, but I have my reasons for asking

Seems we will be able to mod stats on gear right?

I wonder...are we able to reroll stats as much as we want?and they become lvl 70 right?

I understand that they become BOA, which does'nt bother me, Ive sold off most of my gear at this point except whats on my WD, so I have no problem changing stats on this gear and making them BOA, and then slowly incorporate the new gear as found.

Of course it will probably require some sort of essence or something to do so.

Are there any clear answrs on this, I can't seem to find them.

If you have some answers to this please update this post, this info will help lots of players decide their next moves before patch comes.Thanks
08/27/2013 07:39 AMPosted by Rhyas9
-Intellect on a spirit stone. Dexterity on a Mighty weapon.

There is nothing wrong with having these stats, the problem is the awful damage calculation this game uses. You only need to stack vitality and primary attribute which effectively kills the rest.
Tal Rasha's Fire-Spun Cloth from Diablo 2 always rolls Dexterity, and yet its not a bad item.
So had there been any idea on when Loot 2.0 will go live.
Cause if blizz tries to say loot 2.0 is part of the pre-patch exp i gona pop a bloodvesel.

No way we should have to wait almost an entire year for the itemization patch.
the Dev blog for it and Q/A round up was back in March 2013.

So if we have to wait a YEAR for this itemization patch that we been wanting since beta but blizz was so stuck on being stale and bland gear wise trying to be different.
Sorry we want character customization in therms of Gear to skill interaction.
And we also want character stat customization to further add depth to the gear to skill interactions...

I dont want to mindlesslly killing mobs for a stale gear set..that does nothing but increase a number..

Please can we release this Loot 2.0 THIS YEAR.
I'm not going to form an opinion on loot 2.0 based on a couple items but the wand is particularly underwhelming because it's an "on kill" effect. The way I imagine it playing out with current mechanics is that you aoe a pack of easy mobs (ie. low MP for your dps) and then get a bunch of hydras mostly for show, maybe they'll finish off a low mobs or two while you move on to the next pack, or if there is also a champ/rare then they can dps it after you aoe the trash, but it won't be any good at all for bosses or high MP farming.

If hydras could move then it would be much more attractive for farming easy mobs, or if it were "on hit" then it would be attractive for all types of farming.
Legendaries must be guaranteed to have strong and unique affixes to retain their title.
Rares must have the potential to be a little stronger than legendaries if you get very lucky with strong combinations of the right affixes for your class or else everyone will end up using the same gear and the gear hunt will end.
Diablo IS THE GEAR HUNT. Don't ask for a reason to stop playing.
Just stop talking.

Not looking for the "best." I want to magic find useful affixes that promote build diversity and I don't want to rely on legendaries with dismal drop rates to do it.

But thats a bit contradicting. In one way you want to find them without going for the AH, because of abismal drop rates and then you said somewhere :

Legendaries should go beyond and truly be "game changers." Adding silly gimmicks doesn't get the job done in my opinion. In LOD some rare and crafted items could out roll a unique, but they were very rare and impossible to find. Interesting affixes are needed regardless, if they limit them to legendaries it will push players to use the AH.

I remember some of those items. I think there have been blue shields which have been extremly valuable. If they had the right rolls! Because they could get one stat that you could not find on anything else, if I remember correctly. But its been a long time ...

Still, what does it matter if it has usefull effects if you never see those items. Thats the whole point of it all. Make D3 a lottery, a pure lottery and it becomes just as useless to play it like the lottery.

True. Affixes in D2 were much more 'healthy' than in D3. Blue *could* roll greater VALUE of affix, and therefore actually be superior than rares, even uniques/runewords. A nice touch was that they could be bought at vendors.

In D3, blues serve absolutely nothing. (An evil word-play!)

However, IF blues spawned with 3 affixes and had chance to spawn with higher level affixes than rares, they *could* be worth using, depending on difference and luck.
All the acts should have some unique things in each so people can no longer find whats most efficient grinding and just play that over and over, staleness and boredom happen that way. Have people going through the whole game to get what they want.

My .02

Beyond just unique keys for the Hellfire ring that is.
This is how I'd like to see rares and legendaries broken up, I'll use weapons as examples:

Most rares should be stepping stones to BiS legendaries. They shouldn't roll build specific "legendary" affixes, but just good overall stats.

There should be two "tiers" of legendaries. You have your less rare build changers that might not give you as much sheet damage as a great rare weapon, but it would have a very unique and powerful build augmenting ability that would change up builds.

Then you should have your BiS legendaries which should be better than any rare in the game and focus more on damage, but would be extremely rare.

I'll think up some examples quickly:

Flesh Slayer (rare first weapon)
1289 dmg. - 1.40 APS
241 Dexterity
89 Vitality
2.6% Damage Dealt Converted to Life
24% Damage to Elites
Critical Hit Chance increased by 7%

Won Khim Lau (legendary first weapon)
1050 - 1150 damage dealt as Lightning - 1.40 APS
170 - 200 Dexterity
5 - 6% Lightning Damage
Lightning Skills deal 25% more Lightning Damage
41 - 50 Lightning Resistance
+1 Random Property
You constantly heal 5000% of your total Lightning Resistance as life.
Any spirit generator you use now does 110% weapon damage as Lightning. You also now teleport to the target and release an electric shockwave with every punch that hits all enemies within 6 yards of your primary target for 35% weapon damage as Lightning.

So basically if you want to use Deadly Reach - Foresight as your main generator, it will also give you the benefits of using FoT - Thunderclap. I think this would be awesome as it would let people use different spirit generators as opposed to always using FoT.

The Crystal Fist (ultra rare legendary fist weapon)
1400 - 1500 damage - 1.50 APS
300 - 330 Dexterity
170 - 200 Vitality
71 - 80 Resistance to All Elements
4 - 5% Damage Dealt Converted to Life
20 - 25% Chance to Freeze on Hit
Increases Spirit Regeneration by 2.50 - 3.00 Per Second (Monk Only)
Ignores Durability Loss
+1 Random Property
When receiving fatal damage, you are restored to 50% of your maximum life, 50% of your maximum spirit, and become invulnerable to all damage for 3 seconds. This ability can only trigger once every 60 seconds.

The numbers could be tweaked of course, but I would want it so that rares could be great stat sticks, most legendaries or, "1st tier" legendaries, would give almost as much damage but enable different builds, and a few very rare legendaries would be BiS.
True. Affixes in D2 were much more 'healthy' than in D3. Blue *could* roll greater VALUE of affix, and therefore actually be superior than rares, even uniques/runewords. A nice touch was that they could be bought at vendors.In D3, blues serve absolutely nothing. (An evil word-play!) However, IF blues spawned with 3 affixes and had chance to spawn with higher level affixes than rares, they *could* be worth using, depending on difference and luck.

That would require devs who understand LOD itemization...
well no one said rare items could roll that high... what if rare items could only roll up to 2k that way people can customize their build with the new legendary items or just go with raw damage with what we have now

basically the new legendaries could be based on skills while rare items are just what we have now just lower number so it evens out

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