Should I go Nats?

Wizard
Yo, been a while since I played D3 and was thinking about replacing my Zuni ring and boots with Nats.

Just wondering if the resident experts think it is worth it?
Also, is it possible to get LoH on a Nats ring to replace my LoH on my Zuni?

I pretty much play either a CM/WW build or a Meteor build. Been using Meteor pretty much since I unlocked the skill but like to experiment with other skills, like Arcane Torrent. Keeps things interesting.
Yo, been a while since I played D3 and was thinking about replacing my Zuni ring and boots with Nats.

Just wondering if the resident experts think it is worth it?
Also, is it possible to get LoH on a Nats ring to replace my LoH on my Zuni?

I pretty much play either a CM/WW build or a Meteor build. Been using Meteor pretty much since I unlocked the skill but like to experiment with other skills, like Arcane Torrent. Keeps things interesting.


Well, I am not expert in Zuni set. But for CM/WW, you won't go wrong with Nats set.

It is possible to roll LOH. But remember that you can only have 3 rolls. For me, I will go for crit%, CHD, and int/vit
You have 29.5CC... please, do whatever you can get to more CC. You don't have any on your Stormcrow, Lacuni's, Hellfire and Zuni Pox. That's already a potential 24CC gone. That alone boosts you up to 53.5CC (if you get max values on each).

Switching to the Nat's ring/boots combo will also add to your APS but you will lose almost half of your LoH. BT pants will fill that slot. Losing the IAS is fine since you gain it from the ring, but you gain a lot more survivability.
Nats or no Nats? I don't think that's exactly the question.

Most people in your position (non-GG items) will get to a point where then need a tri-Pox to upgrade their gear and push their CC up over 50CC. Nats set (instead of Zuni set) is one easy way to do that...though you do sacrifice some DPS to do it...but I think that the build runs more smoothly with higher CC.

You, however, don't even have 30CC. I know that you have +exp items to help level, but I believe that you'd be better off getting to the 2.73 breakpoint with over 50CC and running the build as it should be run. If you are not going to do ubers (where you "need" 2.73) and want to stick at 2.5 breakpoint, that's fine, but stack ALOT more CC. You'll be able to clear material at a higher MP and be better off than clearing lower MP's with +EXP gear.The CC will give you much better freeze, more control of the enemies, increase your damage multiplier, and increase your DPS. So,

5+CC StormCrow with 450+LoH
Rare ring (instead of hellfire) - 4CC/8IAS/AR + whatever else
BT Pants - of some sort. (-1CC from Inna's)
Nat's Boots - INT and VIT
Nat's Ring - INT/3CC (+7CC from set)

That's an extra 18CC...plus your 29.5...which will give you 47.5. You will feel like a god. Get some CC on your lacunis or more on your Tal Ammy...and you will feel like god's god. No joke. Give it a try. And check out my guide linked below in my signature.

Cheers!

...pie
________________________________________________
Diablo III Wizard MVP | My street cred is limited to the friendly confines of the wiz forum
CM/SNS Wizard Guide: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8728753771
Danger: Please do not feed the trolls!
^^ everything pie said

ANNNNDDDD I think more and more people are figuring out that end game nats is in fact better. IMO zuni is for dprog. Top and nats gear ftw =)

Now if you can reach 54/55 CHC with zuni and have a very low ping (less than 50) then zuni is doable. For the other 99% of us nats is BIS.
Nats will give better freeze, Zuni will give better EHP, in general.

Zuni will give higher paper dps, however, actual eDPS in real fight, nat usually wins unless zuni's paper dps is significantly higher (eg, around 15% more on the paper).

To gear up a good nat, you need to pay attention to your EHP. Nat boots is nice for armor but lacks around 100 vit when compared to zuni boots at the same level.

Zuni pox comes with 70 all res, nat setup rarely go for all res on nat ring, usually go with int , trifecta or at least crit chance+ int + loh.
nat > zun in terms of sustain even baring the AR on zun ring.


1 twister
28 tick rate
908 loh
82.5 twister crit chance
10835 shard life
2.14286 breakpoint
4.7748 cm rate(3.5811/.75 from http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8770117237?page=7#129)

loh avg return from 6 second 1 target
908 * 28 * 0.125 = 3178 life

shard avg return from 6 second 1 target
10853 * 6 (seconds) * 4.7748 * .825 / 12.75 (after evocation reduction) = 33533 life

The extra crit from Nats is equal to 487LOH at my breakpoint probably around 435 loh at 2.72. You throw on life steal from shards and you will see how nat gives better sustain than zun in all cases. That is even before you consider that melee reduction applies to some spells and dex helps you dodge procs.
just ditch the hellfire and just give it to the follower
Funny, a few weeks ago I want'ed to artifically (i.e at the cost of EHP) boost my DPS so I found a nice pair of Ice Climbers....the tooltip said that I'd boost my DPS by 25K......yeah, 25K. So I bought them for 100M. Put them on my toon....and I lost DPS...DOH!!! yeah, it obviously didn't take into account that I'd lose the 7CC bonus. And, that's HUGE.

So, yeah, I really like the Nats set. You'll certainly lose EHP over the other boots, but you'll likely come out ahead as far as mitigation goes (easy to get 75AR and 600 armor and melee reduction and double dex roll)...and maybe DPS too.

Oh, and I turned around and flipped those boots for 200M. Lol.
________________________________________________
Diablo III Wizard MVP | My street cred is limited to the friendly confines of the wiz forum
CM/SNS Wizard Guide: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8728753771
Danger: Please do not feed the trolls!
PieHole knows what he is talking about, and his guide is great. I have been running Nats for a long time(my profile has a few of my Wiz pieces on my Doc right now), and the extra CC is the main reason. The elemental dmg from the Crow, Tals amulet, and Zuni boots will fluff your DPS, and running Nats boots and ring may actually not show much of a change, but the CC helps with the real dmg.

You need to ditch the socketed crow and hellfire ring. I know, you are thinking that is 60% more exp, but with more DPS, you can move up to a higher MP level and probably end up with more exp and running content faster.

Crow with at least 4.5 CC(and decent LoH)
Switch to BT pants(try to end up with at least 800 LoH combined with Crow)
Get Nats ring(has inherent attack speed you lose from not having Inna's pants to keep at 2.51)
Get Nats boots(big ehp from dex and AR, and most importantly makes the 7CC set bonus)
Lose Hellfire ring for at least a decent rare with CC and CD
Find some Lacuni's with CC

Try to find a Nats ring with some CC to go along with the AS, but if budget does not allow that, go with CD as one of the other rolls. The Nats boots need to have a Int/Vit combo roll, and you can find them pretty cheap, especially if they have the lower Dex roll. 800 LoH will work for awhile, as I ran 766 all the way to 250K dps. I don't know what your budget is, how much gold you have, or if you are an AH king, but this will require some funds no matter what.
sorry to be an !@#$%^- , but I disagree with nata vs zuni .
more cc is good , but it depends on ur build . if u go nata set u will lose ehp + int .
I see most wizys using shocking aspect with emerald in wand - I spent some time , its not worth it ) ruby way better cuz shocking aspect rely on wep dmg , and chd doesn't count as one .... 11xx vs 15xx ..... hmmmmm let me guess ....
sorry to be an !@#$%^- , but I disagree with nata vs zuni .
more cc is good , but it depends on ur build . if u go nata set u will lose ehp + int .
I see most wizys using shocking aspect with emerald in wand - I spent some time , its not worth it ) ruby way better cuz shocking aspect rely on wep dmg , and chd doesn't count as one .... 11xx vs 15xx ..... hmmmmm let me guess ....


hmm what about shocking aspect crits hmmm
sorry to be an !@#$%^- , but I disagree with nata vs zuni .
more cc is good , but it depends on ur build . if u go nata set u will lose ehp + int .
I see most wizys using shocking aspect with emerald in wand - I spent some time , its not worth it ) ruby way better cuz shocking aspect rely on wep dmg , and chd doesn't count as one .... 11xx vs 15xx ..... hmmmmm let me guess ....


hmm what about shocking aspect crits hmmm

Too much logic.
hmm what about shocking aspect crits hmmm


Team pooped on all nats cept for noobsauce jungah!! Need to start linking him GG nats boots for cheap deals hahahah
@hrenya,

something like 50% of SA damage tics are crits. That's alot of crits. They just don't show up in the yellow crit damage color. But they are there. All of the crit and non-crit WW damage gets totaled up every 0.5s and displayed as a white number.
________________________________________________
Diablo III Wizard MVP | My street cred is limited to the friendly confines of the wiz forum
CM/SNS Wizard Guide: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8728753771
Danger: Please do not feed the trolls!
sorry to be an !@#$%^- , but I disagree with nata vs zuni .
more cc is good , but it depends on ur build . if u go nata set u will lose ehp + int .
I see most wizys using shocking aspect with emerald in wand - I spent some time , its not worth it ) ruby way better cuz shocking aspect rely on wep dmg , and chd doesn't count as one .... 11xx vs 15xx ..... hmmmmm let me guess ....

It's been shown many times in tests that Emerald is usually better then Ruby. You can use this site to test your effective DPS: http://d3cmww.com/

I used to use ice climbers + rare ring, but once I read piehole's guide, I decided to regear using nat's and haven't looked back since. Being at the 2.73 breakpoint with 60+ cc feels oh so nice. Now the one thing I have to work on is raising my MIT without losing DPS, which I have figured out, is really expensive where I'm at.
There are too many pluses to running with a Nats set.

Dodge and Reduction in elite damage is great. I also use a Tri-Pox when I want to just farm, but I haven't utilized the Zuni set bonus in a long time.

My Nats Ring isn't amazing, but it works great with my gear set.

Hmmm... Not sure how the Mystic is going to work, but swapping out the Nats ring's Life Regen for Crit Chance would be omg amazing.
sorry guys , im nooby with 700k ehp , 80k hp , 250k dps , 2.74 ias and 48.5 cc
I can lock ubers , my dmg is insane , I still prefer ruby not emerald , cuz I use shocking aspect and shards ...

shards = 210 % wep dmg as physical
aspect = 35% wep dmg

245%

best wand with socket = not even 1200
wand with ruby = 15xx

math no go , im noob , sry ....
Wow awesome math.
If you like the Ruby, go with the Ruby. I have tried Ruby and Emerald both in my Wiz and WD weapons, and the edge goes to Emerald in Wiz and Ruby in Doc, but that is my experience. I can see where you are going with the reasoning, and like I said, go with the Ruby if you believe it to be better in your situation.

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