Self-Found mode: Why do you feel it's necessary?

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08/26/2013 10:51 PMPosted by Martimus
And a lot of the kids don't come on the forum and after playing for 6 months, don't ask for their money back? Yes, just as ridiculous. Hint: look up the word "Satire"


Uhh actually that is quite ridiculous. Playing the game for 6 months THEN expecting a refund? You honestly believe that's not ridiculous? I think you either need to look up satire, because either you're not good at it, or you have no clue what it is. Just admit your analogy was terrible.

And how is the rest of my post pointless? Do you disagree that trading and the AH are essentially the same? Because you're asking for the removal of both. Do you agree that trading was a part of D1 and D2? If so then my post is completely valid. I don't see why you all of a sudden need a separate game mode after 2 games.


What?! I think the kids that do that ARE idiotic and yes there are many threads where they have seriously expected a refund after playing the game for over 200 hours!

What were your other points again? Didn't I address them?
08/26/2013 11:00 PMPosted by Martimus
- Trading was an option that was added to a loot finding game (D1 and 2) but the whole game dynamics centered around finding items. Some people did trade but it was not the premise of the game.


Seriously? In D2 exactly how many HRs did you find? Exactly how many enigmas did you make? Because 99% of players who had an enigma or any other HR runeword either duped, botted, or traded for it. And guess what? You know all those game changing uniques people remember so fondly? Most of them were Runewords. Infinity, Enigma, Dream, Chaos, all opened up so many OP builds and skills. So don't tell me that trading wasn't a central part of D2, because 99% of legit players (aka not duping or botting) wouldn't have been able to use those items.

- If you played D1 and D2 as well then why does the addition of a totally separate and totally optional Mode of play bother you so much? Do you hate to see others have fun? Did Santa bring you the wrong colour iphone last year?


Because like people constantly state. It is deemed unnecessary, and there is a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong list of things that need to be implemented way before even an SF mode can be thought about. Not to mention loot 2.0 should solve about 90% of SF player's problems.

List in case you were wondering:
-Loot 2.0
-Paragon 2.0
-Mystic
-Loot Runs/Nephalem Trials
-Improved skill system and build diversity
-Enhanced PVP (if they implement an SF mode before this you can expect a sea of holy fire on the forums)
-Improved Social/Chat functions
-Better Matchmaking
-Commas,raised gold cap, and better search functionality in the AH
-Revisiting the lvling of 1-60 and the number of difficulties

and I'm sure more that I'm forgetting


I don't even know what HR or enigmas are because I probably never found or made them. I remember lots of Gold items and many levels of runes. I stopped playing at about 1.03 or was it 1.05? It is at 1.11 now so I recently reloaded the game and play it once a week (the present ladder). I never traded and stopped trying to play online with others because they would just go hostile and grief you over and over.

- I know that you and I have had this circular argument on other threads. So are you just trying to get me to state the obvious over and over? I have always said that SF can be incorporated after all other more important issues have been resolved but you won't even allow that. You hate the idea of a SF Mode for hates sake. Just let it go, man. It's not for you.....it's not for you.
What?! I think the kids that do that ARE idiotic and yes there are many threads where they have seriously expected a refund after playing the game for over 200 hours!


Then you are being equally idiotic expecting an optional mode that didn't come with the game.

I don't even know what HR or enigmas are because I probably never found or made them. I remember lots of Gold items and many levels of runes. I stopped playing at about 1.03 or was it 1.05? It is at 1.11 now so I recently reloaded the game and play it once a week (the present ladder). I never traded and stopped trying to play online with others because they would just go hostile and grief you over and over.


Right, you didn't experience a part of the game so let me educate you. Trade was very central in obtaining the very rare runewords in D2 that allowed certain builds and skills. Which directly contradicts your point that trade wasn't central to D2. So stop saying that!

08/26/2013 11:12 PMPosted by SirRight
I have always said that SF can be incorporated after all other more important issues have been resolved but you won't even allow that.


Well first of all, I think SF is useless full stop. I think that time spent developing it could be better spent on anything, even after all of the fixes are done. I think the majority of players would prefer additional content over an SF mode.

Secondly, If you agree that all of those important issues should be implemented, then an appropriate timeline for SF would be after PVP, which is looking like late 2014, early 2015. At that point, Blizz would want to switch to working on their second expansion.

So I don't see this working out at all, but if you must insist that you need an SF mode, can you please stop with all of these threads until after the things that you agree need to get fixed actually get fixed? It's honestly the same 4-5 people on this crusade, and it's just annoying at this point. Can you just wait until we get the new loot and paragon systems before continuing this crusade? Pretty please?
Stop...stop it all. We have the expansion where there is going to be absolutely no need for self found mode with all the BoA stuff they're throwing our way. This discussion is soo last month.
08/26/2013 11:19 PMPosted by Martimus
What?! I think the kids that do that ARE idiotic and yes there are many threads where they have seriously expected a refund after playing the game for over 200 hours!


Then you are being equally idiotic expecting an optional mode that didn't come with the game.

I don't even know what HR or enigmas are because I probably never found or made them. I remember lots of Gold items and many levels of runes. I stopped playing at about 1.03 or was it 1.05? It is at 1.11 now so I recently reloaded the game and play it once a week (the present ladder). I never traded and stopped trying to play online with others because they would just go hostile and grief you over and over.


Right, you didn't experience a part of the game so let me educate you. Trade was very central in obtaining the very rare runewords in D2 that allowed certain builds and skills. Which directly contradicts your point that trade wasn't central to D2. So stop saying that!

08/26/2013 11:12 PMPosted by SirRight
I have always said that SF can be incorporated after all other more important issues have been resolved but you won't even allow that.


Well first of all, I think SF is useless full stop. I think that time spent developing it could be better spent on anything, even after all of the fixes are done. I think the majority of players would prefer additional content over an SF mode.

Secondly, If you agree that all of those important issues should be implemented, then an appropriate timeline for SF would be after PVP, which is looking like late 2014, early 2015. At that point, Blizz would want to switch to working on their second expansion.

So I don't see this working out at all, but if you must insist that you need an SF mode, can you please stop with all of these threads until after the things that you agree need to get fixed actually get fixed? It's honestly the same 4-5 people on this crusade, and it's just annoying at this point. Can you just wait until we get the new loot and paragon systems before continuing this crusade? Pretty please?


What we have here is a failure to communicate. It is stated on very old D2 forum posts that the majority of D2 players did NOT play online. Did you really see millions of traders? So that argument is null. As for the rest of your arguments...as soon as you resorted to name calling, directed at me personally, I realize that you don't want to actually discuss the merits or lack of merits in a Self-found mode, you just want to fight. It takes two...go find someone else. I've been clear in my statements.

P.S. I don't create any of these SF threads but YOU will not deny me from responding to them!
08/26/2013 11:27 PMPosted by MasterJay
Stop...stop it all. We have the expansion where there is going to be absolutely no need for self found mode with all the BoA stuff they're throwing our way. This discussion is soo last month.


Welcome to the party but you really need to read the whole thread. Your argument has been discussed in this thread and all of the other SF threads.

Too Long;Didn't Read: Self-found is a style of play and NOT a fix for core game issues, such as itemization (Loot 2.0).
As for the rest of your arguments...as soon as you resorted to name calling, directed at me personally, I realize that you don't want to actually discuss the merits or lack of merits in a Self-found mode, you just want to fight. It takes two...go find someone else. I've been clear in my statements.


No if you actually read them you'd realize I have valid points. The merits and lack of merits of SF have already been discussed to death. These threads always have the same people hailing SF as the next Jesus, and other people saying why it isn't worth the time. It's clear by now that no one's viewpoints are going to change.

If you're really serious about agreeing that other things should be fixed first, then you wouldn't respond to these threads either. You're just perpetuating the pointless debate.
08/26/2013 11:27 PMPosted by MasterJay
Stop...stop it all. We have the expansion where there is going to be absolutely no need for self found mode with all the BoA stuff they're throwing our way. This discussion is soo last month.


This is incorrect. BoA does not make SF obsolete.
So back on topic:

I feel that Blizzard should consider that a SF Mode is needed to give the players who do not require the use of trading or auction houses to play a loot finding game, a separate and optional Mode of play. This will group together like minded players and probably bring back millions of players who have left because the Auction Houses were put into place.

A separate mode will strengthen the playerbase, which will also hopefully sell more copies of the expansion. This mode will also make public SF games much easier to create, will provide a separate stash, Blacksmith, Jeweler, and Mystic, and allow players to be ranked according to their SF peers.

One SF proposal: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9309641216
08/26/2013 11:48 PMPosted by SirRight
This will group together like minded players and probably bring back millions of players who have left because the Auction Houses were put into place.


Source on that number?
08/26/2013 11:49 PMPosted by Martimus
This will group together like minded players and probably bring back millions of players who have left because the Auction Houses were put into place.


Source on that number?


You are this close to being ignored "----". "Probably" is a word that is allowed to be used in this venue. It inherently states that no facts can be obtained until an official poll can be conducted by Blizzard. There have been "unofficial" polls done by other game sites that have tabulated results and suggest that a certain percentage of the 12 million players that left (and that is officially stated) did so because of various reasons. I'll let you go look it up yourself.
There have been "unofficial" polls done by other game sites that have tabulated results and suggest that a certain percentage of the 12 million players that left (and that is officially stated) did so because of various reasons. I'll let you go look it up yourself.


The onus is on you to provide evidence to back up your facts. Please give me a number of this unoffical poll that has no selection bias.

Also, People can say they left because they felt like they were required to use the AH. If blizz fixes that in the expansion, a major part of the group you're referring to falls away.

"Probably" is a word that is allowed to be used in this venue. It inherently states that no facts can be obtained until an official poll can be conducted by Blizzard.


Ok, then I think an SF mode would "probably" bring back only thousands of people, based on my unoffical polling on the amount of support if gets on these forums.
08/26/2013 11:57 PMPosted by Martimus
There have been "unofficial" polls done by other game sites that have tabulated results and suggest that a certain percentage of the 12 million players that left (and that is officially stated) did so because of various reasons. I'll let you go look it up yourself.


The onus is on you to provide evidence to back up your facts. Please give me a number of this unoffical poll that has no selection bias.

Also, People can say they left because they felt like they were required to use the AH. If blizz fixes that in the expansion, a major part of the group you're referring to falls away.

"Probably" is a word that is allowed to be used in this venue. It inherently states that no facts can be obtained until an official poll can be conducted by Blizzard.


Ok, then I think an SF mode would "probably" bring back only thousands of people, based on my unoffical polling on the amount of support if gets on these forums.


Given the frosty reception D3 had at release, anything that brings back players should be on the table at this point. The expansion is about redemption.
08/26/2013 11:59 PMPosted by Aphyrax
Given the frosty reception D3 had at release, anything that brings back players should be on the table at this point. The expansion is about redemption.


I'm sure an optional nude chars mode would also bring back people. Should that be on the table?
08/27/2013 12:04 AMPosted by Martimus
Given the frosty reception D3 had at release, anything that brings back players should be on the table at this point. The expansion is about redemption.


I'm sure an optional nude chars mode would also bring back people. Should that be on the table?


Given the amount of readily available nudity on the internet, I highly doubt a lot of people would spend $40 for some undressed polygons.
If the incentives to play the game are > than playing the AH it will work..........

If it is more time rewarding to play the AH than the actual game.........well Loot 2.0 will have failed.

The last thing players want is to spend their precious evenings and weekends farming and farming and farming while never seeing any of the gear that you can buy on the AH.
08/27/2013 12:07 AMPosted by Aphyrax
Given the amount of readily available nudity on the internet, I highly doubt a lot of people would spend $40 for some undressed polygons.


No a lot of people were quite upset when it was shown there is no nudity. I beg to differ.


The last thing players want is to spend their precious evenings and weekends farming and farming and farming while never seeing any of the gear that you can buy on the AH.


I dunno, it's till more fun than actually using the Auction house... IMO
Self-found: poor people who can't afford Blizzard's pay2win tax and leech off of pay2win people in public MP games getting incessantly kicked for being undergeared.

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