It's finally over, I'm mad at you Void

Wizard
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Meh you guys can keep it. Don't like it's character never have. Sure once wound nothing can stop you but until then LOH dominates - plus you dont need frekken 60K+ lifes to take hits.

Get more AR get more LOH bro.. 618 LOH is pathetic.


618 LoH is pathetic correct, that's why I have 980 now :P

75k hppsss for da EHP! With my gearing style it's too difficult and unnecessary to gear higher AR, it will in fact lower my EHP by a lot in avaliable AR slots.

For example, if a slot AR in my Inna's I lose 199 vitality, that's EHP suicide.

If I slot AR on Tal Rasha again I'll lose 100+ vit and 12% Life, EHP suicide.

If I slot AR on Nat's I lose some dps again..which might not be a bad idea with the extreme modifier I have.

I can spare 88 vit to slot AR on gloves instead - that is worth it for sure. More mit and more EHP. Something I'll goal for in the future, basically when it's worth goaling for (next patch)

EHP is EHP so long as you have the sustain and with 1kish LoH , very fast shield refresh and extreme freeze strength I do :)

LS was king for tree tanking though I must admit, LoH just doesn't compare to OP tree poison - going to miss that a lot!
I would at least get three more pieces of AR. LS wont help that low AR either. Even with 330K DPS and 2.9 LS I like 700-750 AR to sustain.

I just do simple azmadon tests stand in three four pools with his metoer hitting me. When I can sustain I stop on mit and or LS/LOH. I am sure there are tougher tests but gotta draw line someplace.

Your new LOH Ring can have AR EZ. Gloves too. Maybe innas or chest..but chest is nice. Thats a lot of lifes.:)
09/12/2013 05:05 PMPosted by Aimless
LS wont help that low AR either.


You want really high EHP because at 330k dps, LS can keep up the sustain.

570AR ftw
LS and LOH setups are both equally viable just pretty different gearing and deaths occur for different reasons. With3.38 IAS wand, I have alot of control but would die to the occasionally odd affix due to the slower recovery. With 3.01 dagger, my occasional deaths come from ehp issues - I could boost vit but dragon chasing is part of the LS setup heh.

Ping by far for me is the biggest culprit followed by the desire to stand in the middle of everything and see if I can outlast them.
09/12/2013 05:47 PMPosted by Comrade
LS wont help that low AR either.


You want really high EHP because at 330k dps, LS can keep up the sustain.

570AR ftw


AR is EHP and actually makes sustain work. Can you stand in 3-4 azo pools in MP10 with only 570 AR?
LS and LOH setups are both equally viable just pretty different gearing and deaths occur for different reasons. With3.38 IAS wand, I have alot of control but would die to the occasionally odd affix due to the slower recovery. With 3.01 dagger, my occasional deaths come from ehp issues - I could boost vit but dragon chasing is part of the LS setup heh.

Ping by far for me is the biggest culprit followed by the desire to stand in the middle of everything and see if I can outlast them.


IAS wand should give faster recovery assuming LOH setup. LS give bigger recovery depending on DPS. This is why I like LOH better all you need is EHP to take like 1-2 hits and it recovers right away on winding up as opposed to later once big spells like EB kick in.

I play all day with LOH/LS, again. and still don't warm up to LS. It's like a parabolic curve instead of linear LOH and with LS you need mucho HPs to take a few in the chin winding.

Issue is reflecting with LOH need like 1500 like Neuron for 350K. 1500 is hard as hell to get. Thats why people go LS not that it's better. And no way better for MasterJ at middling DPS.
having to try both both LS and LOH set up, both have advantage and disadvantage.
For DPS dragon chaser, probably LS set up is much better as long as you have enough HP. But it is soooooo hard. and most of the items have to go outside of RMAH to get it right.
LOH set up is much easier within RMAH.

Personally, my favorite always has been nat set/LOH/high mit with mediocre dps. Darshu has said don't underestimate 7% elite reduction from Chanto set.

Here, I am going to go with Aimless.

Unless you are going to spend $$$ to go "right" with LS, you are helping yourself financially by sticking with Chanto set instead.
Same. My favorite set so far is ~300K with like 90+ mits and 1000 LOH and about 50K lifes @2.73. tanky, good freeze, good sustain. I guess i never tried the guys new 400+K LS setups but did 350+ is last ptr. Didnt care for it. 50K more dps can't change it that much.
09/12/2013 07:10 PMPosted by Aimless
Same. My favorite set so far is ~300K with like 90+ mits and 1000 LOH and about 50K lifes @2.73. tanky, good freeze, good sustain. I guess i never tried the guys new 400+K LS setups but did 350+ is last ptr. Didnt care for it. 50K more dps can't change it that much.


its a tough call, once you have lets say 350k+ dps, no loh can save you. gearing for like 2000+loh in different spots is just as expensive as ls if you want to get 350k+ , and you get limited by the chant set deeps anyways. its not that you have a choice, there is no choice for loh 350k+, its ls or dead
See my DH profile for inspiration to get the most from DPS+LS and decent ehp, ...577 ar, 4.18k armor, 62k hp, 402k dps and shadow power -gloom.
Charlatan is right, again.

LS setup was more times mentioned here as only way how to progress with DPS chasing. Exactly that's it.

But I realized now long time ago, that chasing SNS damage is just for epeen - not for real added value.

You can chase DPS (fun), or functionality (fun+awesome group support).

I chased my functionality well with my Wiz, and I loved getting that 61%cc (had problems with it)! But there is nothing more right now to do.

So I wanted to chase DPS with some eDPS build - chose CoB Witch (27x multiplier).

Void when you said that you will kill faster than I with my Wiz... Man, that difference is totally irrelevant. But will you freeze better? Better question.

TL DR
Can Wiz have both relevant damage and relevant group support at once?

No. Gap in damage is just too big against top game edps builds.

Making a box from ball is nice, can be fun, but that's it.

Again, I see no added value in having 100k dps more on your sheet...
Charlatan is right, again.

LS setup was more times mentioned here as only way how to progress with DPS chasing. Exactly that's it.

But I realized now long time ago, that chasing SNS damage is just for epeen - not for real added value.

You can chase DPS (fun), or functionality (fun+awesome group support).

I chased my functionality well with my Wiz, and I loved getting that 61%cc (had problems with it)! But there is nothing more right now to do.

So I wanted to chase DPS with some eDPS build - chose CoB Witch (27x multiplier).

Void when you said that you will kill faster than I with my Wiz... Man, that difference is totally irrelevant. But will you freeze better? Better question.

TL DR
Can Wiz have both relevant damage and relevant group support at once?

No. Gap in damage is just too big against top game edps builds.

Making a box from ball is nice, can be fun, but that's it.

Again, I see no added value in having 100k dps more on your sheet...


why do i need to freeze better? ppl i farm with we kill elites in 5-7secs. the better my dps is, the faster my group kills. and fyi i have 62.5cc. and btw the best edps build for wiz is uberdeath , do you use it? or do you see a lot of snapshotting dhs? im just saying, if you think your toons are better, farm to prove it. 2b offer stands
how about you farm with your 27x what ever gfg cob wd and i go on my poor wiz and we test who's faster?
I see you are 2.51 attack speed. 2 swaps needed to be at 2.73. You need Innas, that will hurt.

Have I just seen incredibly low mit and ehp even with Diggers? You even miss 7% elite dmg redux.

Tbh I like my Wiz more and I'm not upgrading for months.
09/12/2013 09:53 PMPosted by RobertVarga
So I wanted to chase DPS with some eDPS build - chose CoB Witch (27x multiplier).


With all due respect, we all know that is burst damage. It would be nice if you stopped quoting that figure as though you can sustain that. It's rose-coloured glasses. There are plenty on this forum that know just how powerful CoB is (I know several wizards that run GG WDs too); we're all aware of how much damage they are capable over a short period of time. SNS may have a lower multiplier but it's also possible to run with a much higher starting sheet DPS (there are only a handful of 300k unbuffed sustainable CoB WDs) to multiply off of and it's multiplier has essentially 100% uptime - in virtually any situation. Calling it's eDPS trivial is a bit absurd.

-dolynick
??

I can sustain for 100% of all uber fights. That is much much more I ever need for farming.

Oh man...
About damage - yes SNS is total joke, big way. As a Witch, I selfbuff most with more than 1 enemy (5 for max selfbuff).

And even without this huge passive selfbuff, with only 1 enemy I fight... I kill Ghom in 18 seconds.

If I play in group, I buff everyone by up to 70% and with Totem another 20% attack speed.

SNS can't even touch it from long distance. Even Hota barb is 2x less damage.

Gap us so huge I don't know what numbers you need to admit it.

----

Yes there are plenty Witches who cannot sustain and chase DPS. If they used my Mana calculator, they could fix their toons quick. Usully it is mana regen offhand. Yes I'm loosing 13k DPS but I work.
Let's put it this way. At 3.38 aps with 335k dps and decent mit, I was perfectly fine with 1480 LOH but when I dropped to 1100 with Nat's set with slightly lower sheet dps, I had issues (despite being above 3.34 aps BP). I suppose Nat's set with a Nat's LOH ring could work but I didn't bother (am at 59% CC).

If you're running 350k dps and above, there will be problems with LOH. However, fortunately for a large part, one would be constrained by gear as it's hard to hit that dps while maintaining that level of LOH leaving aside whether it's 2.74, 3.01 or 3.34.

I'd love to see a 400k LOH wiz and offer to buy certain pieces =P

Anyhow, it's a close fight between my 2 setups: 3.38 335k vs 3.01 400k. My style of play does differ between the 2 so it's personal preference.
Don't feed the trolls.
But they're so cute.

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