General Discussion

Forum Guidelines - Please Read Welcome to the StarCraft II discussion forums! This forum is here to provide you with a friendly environment where you can discuss all aspects of StarCraft II with your fellow players. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy. Therefore, we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct before posting. Search The new search function at the top of the StarCraft II community site is extremely robust. Please be sure to use it to look for similar topics, blog posts, or web pages that may contain the answer before creating your forum topic. Making a new thread on an existing subject will likely result in your thread being deleted. If you continue to repost it you're likely to have your posting privileges suspended for spamming. Worst of all, you'll be making the other forum goers upset that you didn't take a minute to search before posting. Rating The new rating system can be used to promote positive discussion, and demote unhelpful posts, or even report posts that violate the forum code of conduct. By hovering over a post you'll be presented with a thumbs up, and a thumbs down icon. Clicking the 'thumbs down' icon you can choose from a few options. Dislike will rate the comment down. If enough people dislike a post it will be darkened, or with a lot of dislikes it will be hidden. You can also quickly report a post as trolling or spam, or use the report function to fill out a more comprehensive description of the violation. You can only rate each post once. Use it wisely to help foster a positive and helpful forum community. Guidelines In addition to the forum Code of Conduct, here are some common courtesy guidelines to follow. While these do technically fall within the bounds of the Code of Conduct, these cover more specific examples of common errors that will lead to thread deletions or posting privileges being revoked. The StarCraft II forums are for discussion of topics directly related to StarCraft II The forums here are specifically to discuss the game and related topics. Any topics not related to StarCraft II, or Blizzard are subject to deletion. Don't post in all capital letters, use a misleading title, excessive punctuation, non-standard symbols, etc. While everyone wants their posts read, we ask you to refrain from using these types of tactics in order to bring more people to your thread. Let your post stand on its own merit. Threads violating this guideline are subject to deletion. Using the words Blizzard, Blue, or any community team members name in a thread topic is frowned upon Everyone would like Blizzard to read and acknowledge his or her post, and we understand that. However, use of such words in the topic does not help that come to pass. Please make your thread title relevant to the post subject. Threads violating this guideline are subject to deletion. Posting "First" or IBTL constitutes as spamming You will be suspended if you create a post that is intended to call out that you achieved a specific reply number in a thread. This is considered spamming. Posting IBTL (in before the lock) is not helpful and if you feel a thread should be moderated please use the rating button to do so. Do not bump posts The act of posting simply to bump a thread is considered spamming. This also includes bumping very old threads for no reason (called 'necro bumping' or 'necroing'). Petition posts are frowned upon These are discussion forums, and as such we ask that you hold discussions. Creating a thread to ask for replies as votes is not a discussion. Threads violating this guideline are subject to deletion. Do not post about locked or deleted threads Posts that are moderated have a reason behind the moderation. It's up to you to read the forum code of conduct and these guidelines to determine what you did wrong, learn from your mistake, and attempt to post again without breaking any rules. Bashiok1
Mar 12, 2011
MVPs: Most Valuable Forum Posters It’s been quite a while since we’ve shared information regarding our forum MVP program. If you frequent Blizzard forums you’ve no doubt seen jade text stamped across threads here and there. Those with the power to wield green words are regular players -- just like you -- who’ve been recognized for their contributions to the forums in one way or another. And since we want to provide these player advocates with the resources they need to continue being awesome posters, MVPs have direct lines of contact with Blizzard community managers. Now the time has come to bolster the MVP ranks. Those chosen for the program aren’t official representatives of Blizzard, and they don’t have to agree with every decision we make. They also aren’t expected to give up their posting personas in order to join. Our goal is to find frequent posters who are a positive influence on the gaming community in some form, whether it be through posting strategy guides or tips on various aspects of gameplay, or even just bringing a positive and constructive tone to the forums when socializing with their peers. If you or someone you know fits the description of a Most Valuable Poster as laid out in the MVP FAQ, email us at We select MVPs based on a large set of criteria, so don’t be discouraged from putting your name out there if you only post on, say, the Protoss Discussion or DPS Class Role forums. MVPs are welcome to post wherever they’re comfortable, including across the Diablo III, StarCraft II, and World of Warcraft forums. But remember! The key to being a strong candidate is having a solid posting history. We’re always on the lookout for the next shining beacon of good within the community to join the illustrious ranks of our MVPs. Want to know more about how a Blizzard MVP operates? World of Warcraft MVP Eldacar recently spoke with WoW Insider in this behind-the-scenes interview: Zarhym1
Feb 9, 2012
Community Groups, Events, and Tournaments Although it may not be apparent to forum newcomers, the forum community is very well connected. There are a number of groups we communicate in, a bunch of fun events, and variety of forum tournaments. This is a thread for those who may not be forum regulars who want to learn more about the various forum groups and activities. It is meant to be continuously updated, so if you are an event organizer please post about your group, event, or tournament here and I will add it to the thread! If you run one of the listed events, post here if your thread is nearing the post cap (500 posts, 25 pages) and needs the thread limit increased and we'll see if we can get that fixed for you. Social Groups Discord Chat: ... Forum Poster In-game Chat Group: ... Forum Poster Skype Group: ... Adopt-a-newb: ... Obs Gaming: ... Events Ladder Challenge: ... Current Tournaments [None] Miscellaneous Community Streams: ... TheSkunk43
Jun 3
The Newbies guide to StarCraft II Hello all StarCraft forum goers!!! I decided to make this thread to help out those are new to StarCraft or anybody who is struggling with ladder and looking to improve as a player. Below is a compilation of some things that I thought could assist the average newcomer looking for help. You don’t have to visit all of these links to improve or even any of them, but this is here for anybody who needs it. I included so many links because no one thing will work for everyone so I have gathered all this here so you may decide what will work best for you as an individual and as a StarCraft gamer :D! I will continue to update this thread and add new things as I find them. If you are a StarCraft veteran or newbie and you have anything to add to the list simply post it in the comments and I will add it to the list. Any feedback you have to help better the thread will be greatly appreciated!! Whether you have anything to add to the list, would like to see something edited, or even think I added something that should be removed, all feedback is welcome and will be taken into consideration. For those of you just joining StarCraft II or wanting to get more involved in StarCraft II I strongly suggest you check out Day9 daily #269 and the other Day9 dailies in the Beginner Day9 section. If you have never played an RTS game I would also recommend checking out the beginners guide under the TeamLiquids website section. It explains some of the basics concepts a bit and should give you a good starting point to choose where you want to go with the knowledge. Magnet also has been creating a great guide series for those new to the game that can help those who are beginners and up to the intermediates. Videos, Tutorials, and streams Watching videos and streams of StarCraft is one of the greatest ways to learn. You can watch pro players play so you can copy builds, learn timings, and to help you understand the game better. Many people also post videos online to help give you tips and tricks to “Be a better gamer” – Day9 Starcraft II: World Championship portal (For all things WCS and to watch pro players play) WCS season’s 1 and 2 replays WCS Season 1 of 2014 Blizzard released all of the pro level replays from WCS seasons 1 and 2. If you ever wanted to copy your favorite pros builds and get every little detail that even the casters miss, well then this is the place to do it. “The foreigner scene benefited tremendously from seeing the Korean well-honed builds in all their replay intricacies. Every SC2 notebook opened up after that news.” Streams to watch • Twitch streams • Community Streams RootCatZ Artosis (A well-known StarCraft caster) Day9 (A well-known StarCraft caster) Magnet's Video Tutorials (For every race!) A great collection of "tutorials that are aimed at beginners and intermediate players, but advanced players could pick up a thing or two from watching. They are all contained in a playlist, so you can get started here!" Magnets thread: Direct link to youtube guides: Protoss: Terran: Zerg: Day9 beginner videos • Daily #132 - Mental Checklist • Daily #252 - Secrets of hotkeys, APM and mouse movement • Daily #269 – How to get into sc2 • Daily #312 - How to learn and improve • Daily #419 - Fixing 1 problem at a time Day9 beginner/Intermediate videos These are videos I would like to have put in the beginner section but I wanted to keep that section small and I couldn’t decide one way or another so I put them here. • Daily #184 – Newbie Tuesday #1 • Daily #480 – Finding Leaks in your play • Daily #481 – Zerg Leak finder • Daily #434 – Simplifying problems Day9 intermediate videos • Daily -#257 Refining Mechanics • Daily - #261 Mechanics #2 • Daily - #285 Stealing a Build • Daily - #289 Refining a stolen build • Daily - #340 Gold level analysis • Daily - #341 Reprioritizing your to do list • Daily - #360 Mental Checklist: Exercises Apollo (Yet another well-known StarCraft caster) ApolloSC2 Youtube Starcraft II tutorials for all races (Warning: This was made for Wings of Liberty but it should still be helpful) Terran HotS tutorial part 1 Quick Tips from Apollo • A hotkey setup for terran • How to correctly reinforce your Zerg army FilterSC (Starcraft streamer and well known for his bronze to master’s series) FilterSC YouTube Profile General Bronze to Masters HotS Terran Bronze to Masters HotS FilterSC: HoTS Bronze to Masters - Protoss Combating Ladder Anxiety FilterSC Twitch Stream HTOMario (A grandmaster meching player on NA) HTOMario’s YouTube channel HTOMario: How to Mech TvP HTOMario a TvP video guide compilation! HTOMario a TvZ video guide Compilation! How to Mech TvZ Part 1 - The build order KillerofGods130
Jul 21
COMMUNITY FEEDBACK UPDATE 7/29 Patching quickly or slowly We noticed a lot of discussion around whether it’s good to balance patch often or almost never do a balance patch. Interestingly, our community looked to be leaning towards the second option. Compared to say like last year, this is the opposite of what we’re seeing from the community side. We’ve also seen this go back and forth heavily among the pros. For example, when Kespa pros first came in, we were getting heavy feedback that we can never patch the game because pro players will always figure out everything on their own + there is no reason to ever patch the game. These days, we almost never hear this type of feedback from pro players. Our stance on this definitely used to lean towards almost never patching the game back in wings or early days of HotS, but towards the end of HotS and start of LotV, this line of thought has changed due to more experience. The correct answer we believe to this question is that it really depends on the issue. For example, if something is seen as overpowered but makes for fun games, we can wait longer to see if players find their own solutions. A good example of this is if things like Marine drops or Ravagers are seen as overpowered, we can wait a bit longer to see if players find their own solutions. The reason is that units or strategies that promote more action within the game can create more fun both in terms of playing and watching. On the flip side, for the Brood Lord / Infestor situation we saw back in Wings, we believe we needed to act much quicker due to how stale each game becomes. The Swarm Host issue back in HotS was the same sort of issue, and that’s why we made a move to nerf the unit even when top Korean pro players at the time were saying there was no balance problem with Swarm Hosts (since we mostly only saw the stalemate games outside of KR). And like we’ve discussed in the past couple weeks, we believe the current issues we are looking at such as the Ultralisk, Adept, Liberator, or Warp Prism are all issues within the first category. So while we definitely should work towards discussing or testing potential solutions in case they do turn out to be overpowered, these are definitely issues that we can take our time to evaluate while giving players the time they need to potentially figure out their own solutions. So in this specific scenario we can wait for the pro feedback to confirm the list of changes, and then go through with the balance test map right away even if it means we’re not patching to the live game right away. Pro feedback regarding proposed changes Because Kespa is preparing for the Proleague finals in IEM Shanghai this weekend, they haven’t gotten around to pinging all of their players yet, but we will definitely let you guys know when this comes in next week. However, after having a brief conversation with them yesterday, they seem to have the most issues with Siege Tanks being dropped in Siege mode from Medivacs and the problems it causes for TvZ. We’ll definitely make sure to pay close attention to both the proleague finals as well as the IEM games this weekend. Dayvie82
Contender List and GM Ladder Hotfix We’ve received reports regarding the Contender list for Grandmaster League behaving incorrectly. After investigating this issue, we found that there was an error where the activity requirement for Grandmaster was configured to be 10 games every 10 days instead of the intended 10 games every 21 days. We’ve pushed out a hotfix for this so it should no longer be happening for future GM promotion/demotion events. Thank you everyone for the reports, especially Excalibur_Z. We also wanted to clarify that bonus pool is not a variable that the ladder uses in determining promotion from Contender to GM. One of our goals specifically for GM was to emphasize accuracy, which is why we removed the bonus pool spending requirement and rank players in GM purely based on MMR. Rackle3
Background Download Now Available We have recently turned on our background downloader for an upcoming patch. This update does not require that we bring down the service, and will not make any changes to game features or balance. You will be able to play StarCraft II as normal, and your in-game experience will remain unaffected by the download. If you'd like to download the patch in advance, be sure to leave your Desktop App open. This way, you'll be able to play StarCraft II immediately after the patch goes live in your region! Rackle7
Patch 3.4.1 - Display Issue There is currently a display issue with our patch as its displaying as 3.4.1. The live patch is still 3.4.0, but your Desktop App and StarCraft II client will display 3.4.1. This will be fixed next week when the second Nova mission pack goes live. Rackle3
"Help a Noob" for players new or returning! New or returning to StarCraft and have a question? Lower league player looking for advice? Anyone of any level of skill can ask any questions relating to SC2. If you answer, make sure you're correct! Be as helpful and specific as you can in your reply, help each other out, and ignore/report trolling. Even if nobody else contributes, I'll try to answer every question to the best of my ability. Resources: Check out the "Adopt A Newb" channel in-game: - Lots of great tutorials - The Newbies guide to StarCraft II - collection of links to good learning resources /r/starcraft does this and it's fairly successful, so I thought I'd see how it goes here. TheSkunk78
Jul 22
Community Feedback Archive Here you will find all previous Community Feedback Updates. Summer 2016: Community Feedback Update - July 21 Community Feedback Update - July 15 Community Feedback Update - July 1 Community Feedback Update - June 24 Spring 2016: Community Feedback Update - June 17 Community Feedback Update - June 3 Community Feedback Update - May 27 Community Feedback Update - May 20 Community Feedback Update - May 13 Community Feedback Update - May 3 Community Feedback Update - April 21 Community Feedback Update - April 15 Community Feedback Update - March 24 Community Feedback Update - March 11 Community Feedback Update - March 8 Winter 2015-16: Community Feedback Update - February 18 Community Feedback Update - February 12 Community Feedback Update - February 4 Community Feedback Update - January 29 Community Feedback Update - January 13 Community Feedback Update - January 8 Community Feedback Update - December 18 Community Feedback Update - December 4 Fall 2015: Community Feedback Update - November 25 Community Feedback Update - November 20 Community Feedback Update - November 13 Community Feedback Update - October 29 Community Feedback Update - October 22 Community Feedback Update - October 15 Community Feedback Update - October 8 Community Feedback Update - October 1 Community Feedback Update - September 25 Community Feedback Update - September 18 Community Feedback Update - September 10 Community Feedback Update - September 4 Summer 2015: Community Feedback Update - August 28 Community Feedback Update - August 21 Community Feedback Update - August 14 Community Feedback Update - July 31 Community Feedback Update - July 22 Community Feedback Update - July 17 Community Feedback Update - July 2 Community Feedback Update - June 19 Traysent0
Jul 10, 2015
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A message to Blizzard I don't even care about balance at this point anymore. I just want the game to be fun. Deleting mineral lines does not equal fun - regardless of what race you are. Having zero ability to engage in lategame fights does not constitute fun. Deathballs are not fun. Ultralisks, Liberators, Tempests, Oracles, Widow Mines, invincible Nydus Worms - not a single one of these things are fun. We want to have tactical engagements, small skirmishes around the map. We want to enjoy the game that we love and play. Here's a news flash for you since you and your cohorts don't seem to get it. The players are the viewers. And viewer numbers are declining. There are less and less games played every day. Longer and longer queue times to find a match. Games that are so badly matched when we do get put together that it's either a stomp on your side or you get stomped all together - particularly noticeable for team games. Less and less want to have Starcraft as part of their lineup in DreamHack, in Red Bull, in whatever else. Less and less viewers for the tournaments that are played. Less and less pro-players for the scene to continue, less and less money in the game for the few pro-players that are left to keep doing so. I'm no league player by any means, but they rake in MILLIONS of views and players because they have a fresh meta. They're CONSTANTLY making changes. They always have their PBE server up to TEST those changes, which is something the SC2 dev team doesn't even consider doing, let alone actually doing it. They have a booming player base and the incentives for pros to play are massive: last year's LoL prize pool was $2,130,000 USD, for god's sake. You have the perfect tools to do so at your disposal, with the implementation of mods for your custom games. It's so rare that we get a test map, or a test mod to play on a map; you should be testing new things every couple of weeks. The reality is this: you're sitting around patting yourselves on the back for a job well done, when you've done literally nothing. You've failed in addressing mech's viability and actually making it viable - something that the SC2 Dev team has constantly promised since Wings of Liberty and despite at least four years worth of time, you haven't come a single iota closer to doing it. Your economy changes failed in reducing and removing the 3 base cap, instead only increasing the speed at which it's reached and otherwise basically moving these three bases slowly across the map as players play - about the only thing it's done is remove the initial early game ability to consider what you want to do for the current match and increased the aforementioned ability to wipe a player from the game through only worker harass. You've failed miserably in addressing Protoss' design issues and the fact that they STILL revolve around the death-ball, that they are almost completely reliant on gimmicks, that there's zero trade off for using warp-gate over gateway, that macro players still have to have photon overcharge to help them through the super early game (and in fact gave PO even more power than it already had in HotS) and that's not even the half of it. You've failed SPECTACULARLY in Terran's own design limitations, making their already limited compositions further pigeonholed into a single composition by forcing them into using (minimally supported)bio in every single match up, and actually removing any and all positional play from TvT, which was, perhaps, the only actually decent mirror match up once upon a time because of its strategy, because of it's diversity, because of how it had worked previously; instead bringing it in line with the other match-ups by removing creativity and relegating TvT to marine tankivac or reaper cheeses, where before we had mech, bio, a variety of cheeses, changing what was once the most diverse mirror matchup in the game into pure shambles. About the only improvement you've actually made is make the ultralisk stronger than it's HotS iteration, but in doing so you drastically over-buffed it by simultaneously nerfing the marauder. One or the other would have been plenty, but both is, was, and always will be, absurd. Seriously, there are so many other issues that I could mention here we could practically write a book about it. I love this game, Blizzard, but you have got to get off your rear and do a LOT of work. Miro31
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Fix Protoss Economy the Math HotS Zerg: 4 larva Inject LotV Zerg: 3 larva Inject HotS Terran: 30 minerals per gather mule LotV Terran: 25 minerals per gather mule LotV Protoss: Infinite Chrono 15% Speed HotS Protoss: 25 Energy Chrono 20 seconds 50% Speed LotV: 32 Seconds to Gain 25 Energy, 12 Seconds a worker (N/A) HotS: 45 Seconds to Gain 25 Energy, 17 seconds a worker We will base this on 45 Seconds for the 25 Energy consumption of chrono Lotv: 12 (Second Probe) x 0.15 (Chrono) = 10.2 (Second Probe) 45 (Game Seconds) / 10.2 (Second Probe) = 4.41 Probes every 45 Seconds Hots: We need to convert 45 seconds into 60 seconds for chrono energy time. 0.50 (Chrono) x 0.333(Remaining Missing Chrono from 15 Seconds) = 0.166 0.166 (Chrono Change) + 0.50 (Chrono) = 0.666 (Chrono) 17 (Second Probe) x 0.666 (Chrono) = 11.332 (Second Probe Difference) 17 (Second Probe) - 11.332 (Probe Difference) = 5.67 (Probe) 20 (Game Seconds) / 5.67 (Probe) = 3.52 Probes every 45 Seconds (LotV) 4.41 > 3.52 (Hots) This is a pretty big deal as it means over a course of 6 minutes in the game protoss will have about 5 more workers than normal from HotS. Take into consideration a natural going up at 3 minutes you can technically say they will have about 7-8 more workers than normal by 6 minutes. Also with the nerf to Terran and Zerg Economy this is a huge step up in Protoss Economy which is why protoss reigns supreme in worker count every game vs. both Terran and Zerg. Video: RuFF78
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Message to Forumites Hello there forum goers, In case you don't know me, I am Raver, I am an 8 times Platinum Terran, I am currently Platinum Protoss if you click on ladders in my profile. I have 19,303 posts so you could say that I'm quite notorious for having a large number of posts compared to my game ratio of 4035 games. I do have a tendency to complain about Terran design quite a lot. It got to the point where I got so frustrated with Terran design that I decided to switch to Protoss and you could say I am quite happy with this decision. Enough about me though, let's talk about something far more important. This forum's community is notorious for having high levels of toxicity. To be fair, it has always been this way. However, who is to blame for this toxicity? Many would be quick to point the blame to Terrans. I would say they are not wrong on this at least on the surface. Terrans do have a tendency to complain the most out of all three races. In fact many threads and posts are Terrans complaining about design or balance or a specific race. So, what is the issue here? Does Terran have some magical magnet for attracting obnoxious people? Logic and reason would dictate that this is not the case. So why do Terrans complain the most? It's clear that Terran is not a fun race to play design wise. It is heavily dependent on drops to get the most out of the race. This makes it not only frustrating to play for Terrans, but also annoying for non-Terrans to play against. Many Terrans mistakenly blame this on balance and this is where they get the reputation for being annoying complainers. Naturally, if you make a race dependent on drops, that it will over perform at the highest levels of play, but under perform everywhere else. Unfortunately, many Terrans do tend to blame balance instead of design and then we get a lot of Zerg/Protoss players hating Terrans. This forum has basically devolved into kind of a script I would say. A Terran poster makes a complaint that Zerg/Protoss is over powered or Terran is under powered because he needs to multi-task or micro more than the other race. Therefore, the game should be balanced for him. He is wrong though, the game should not be balanced for him. Doing so would break the game at the highest levels of play. This is where Zerg/Protoss players lose sympathy for Terrans. Why should the game be balanced for anyone not a Korean Terran? After all, Starcraft 2 is an e-sport first and foremost, the game must be balanced for them. Not for Foreign Terrans and certainly not for a Platinum Terran. Then the cycle repeats itself almost like a broken record. Terran player complains, Zerg/Protoss player gets annoyed and then nothing gets solved. Terrans get frustrated because their complaints are frowned upon as whining and Zerg/Protoss get annoyed at the pesky Terrans. However, this issue would be very easy to solve if only Terrans and Zerg/Protoss players alike took the initiative to look at the other side a bit. Terrans need to be able to look at the big picture more. They need to understand that their complaints with the game is not balance, but design. Design is why a Diamond Terran is struggling against Diamond Zerg or Protoss. It is not balance and their energy should be directed towards improving Terran design. If Terran design was improved perhaps to have less strength in medivacs and more in other neglected areas (battlecruisers and thors). Don't get me wrong, a lot of Terrans already know this, but they do not explain it well enough and it gets misinterpreted as whining. Terran players, I ask of you to direct your energy towards improving Terran design instead of balance. Ask for Mech to be viable, ask for a weaker mid game in exchange for a stronger late game. However, do not ask for a nerf to Zerg/Protoss units without a corresponding Terran nerf. Do not ask for a buff to Terran units without buffing Zerg/Protoss units. It does more harm than good unfortunately, so your message must be explained in a more elaborate manner. Zerg/Protoss players, I ask of you to try to step in the shoes of Terran players. Instead of looking at them as whiny children, look at them as frustrated gamers that are not happy with their situation. Try to realize that they do not like the direction their race was sent to in LotV. Try to understand that they do not realize that the issue is design instead of balance or perhaps they do realize it is design, but they did not communicate that well enough. In the end of the day, we are all Starcraft 2 players and for us to constantly attack each other for a race we play in a computer game is rather petty and simple minded. Most of us are better than that. I know some people are trolls and feed off of that hatred. However, most of the posters here just have a passion for the game and want it to be better. Look at each other as fellow Starcraft 2 players, not as an enemy because they play a different race. I don't care if you play Terran, Zerg, Protoss or Random, it's irrelevant. You are all Starcraft 2 players to me and I hope that one day we can look at each other in this forum in that manner because if we don't then this forum will continue to be ignored by the development team and not be taken seriously from the rest of the SC2 community. I see the potential in this forum though and want it to be better, but most of it is wasted unfortunately because of fighting and toxicity in the community between the three races. TL;DR: Terran players complain a lot about balance, but in reality they are actually complaining about design and either may not know it or do know it, but don't explain it adequately enough. Zerg/Protoss lose sympathy to Terran players because of this causing a lot of hatred amongst the community in this forum. The best way to move forward and for us to become a more constructive forum is for Terrans to convey their message better and direct it towards design instead of balance for Zerg/Protoss to understand that Terrans in the end are frustrated because of design and not balance whether they know it or not. Also, this forum has so much potential, but it is squandered with hatred amongst fellow Starcraft 2 players. We are all the same in the end, regardless of the race we play because we are Starcraft 2 players and spending our time fighting each other will not make this forum a constructive place for discussion to improve this game. Raver110
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The Comlex Design Directionalism of Zerg The reason why the zerg design is truly complex and difficult is because they have degrees of confliction in their offensive and defensive aims that are there to establish their uniqueness apart from terran and protoss. With that said, I'm going to take the last few posts from my last thread, and then really bring home the point for blizzard and the community to see what's really going on. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1.) You got queens receiving raw upgrades outside of Iarvae cost whiIe spine crawIers cost Iarvae and don't receive speciaI upgrades to make them more unit Iike and couId be achieved by the empty Iair and hive techs. Even though the entire picture breaks cIassification guideIines you stiII haven't found anyone creativeIy finding a way to make something work that onIy bends the ruIes and does not break them. 2.) You got the spawning pooI that you know is bending some kind of design aspect severeIy by unIocking 7 different options at once, 2 of which are defensive options that make more sense to be unIocked by the defense buiIding(evo). These units, the queen and spine crawIer don't even find cooperative harmony in the sense that they share being unIocked by the same offensive buiIding(pooI) but not onIy don't work together Iike marines and bunkers do, the queen can't even do something Iike consume the spinecrawIer to form a unit that is offensiveIy capabIe under the buiIding of offensive theme (spawning pooI). 3.) You got Iurkers who have no speciaI upgrades but most zerg units do. No range upgrade, no speed upgrade, and no need for even the burrow upgrade, and they won't cIassify the unit under a more defensive theme aIIowing it to be mutated out of a queen or spinecrawIer. And so, you are an honest guy Iooking for the cooIest and most baIanced strategy e-sport to pIay. You got the experts cIaiming that starcraft is the most baIanced RTS of aII time. You start pIaying the different and awkwardIy designed zerg and are perfectIy wiIIing to accept the races design that may be bending the ruIes severeIy out of zerg's convenience for what you hope to be the sake of beauty, but then you reaIize that the race has gone beyond that in to cIassification confIict and ruIe breaking design points which finaIIy aIIows you to Iiberate yourseIf from the infIuence of big business that won't even discuss reaIistic concerns with their consumers out of greed, hypocrite cowardism and business pride. And finaIIy, I'm sure you wiII have some smart tart respond to this by saying "but atIas, the spawning pooI is suppose to be a defense themed buiIding because that is what makes zerg different" WeII then, I'm stiII waiting for evo to unIock zergIings that wouId be established as defensive units by emerging from eggs in packs of 4 for 100 mineraIs and doubIe time production that sIowIy Iose Iife when off the creep and sIowIy regen it back whiIe on the creep. WhiIe the spawning pooI estabIishes queen and spine crawIer as offensiveIy capabIe defense with their current mobiIity states they are in now. AtlasMeCH29
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Design Changes I see this alot, "The problem is not balance, It's the game design". I'm unsure if all the people saying this are using the same definition, although in general, I agree. Please post your definition/idea of what 'game design' means to you, hopefully we can reach a usable consensus to streamline our feedback. Below are my thoughts on the matter to get the ball rolling. IMO, fundamental changes I would like to see with the design are: -the clustering of units (spacing changes have been suggested since beta WoL) but not for all as with some units it makes sense (muta and lings for instance, but the idea that all your zealots would cluster together seems weird) -removing 'unit type' (+ vs armoured etc) as it creates the hard counter system which is just dumb and restricts player/strategy/tactical options and devolves everything to "build the right unit and you win" - Introduce LAN, this should speak for itself. You need to open the game up rather than restricting people attempting to promote and innovate on your flawed product. (you wont ever remove the flaws, but allowing other people to modify it on their own terms is how you get people playing Skyrim in 2016, BW likely wouldn't still be around without PC cafes and ICCUP) - focus on worker harassment is dumb, silly, frustrating and just bad across the board. I like harassment, i think its a cool and vital part of any strategy, but the focus on workers (oracle/liberator etc) is lame. Being able to come in and target some key tech before it finishes or to sabotage aspects of the other players strategy would reward good scouting and intuitive play rather than "i will murder his drones because I should murder his drones", its too basic and 1 directional and removes any potential nuance from the game. (Evo chambers/armories/forges etc could be way more fragile and needing protection, taking out artosis-pylons is a good example of this, but again, requires more nuance.) - units like liberator and HT w feedback/emp on ghost or lurkers, change the game too significantly ie, when they are on the field, they have to be addressed in particular, 1 click and its done its job kind of units. Playing with vipers/infestors is interesting, untill there is an anticaster on the field and now you may have just wasted all your gas/supply on units that wont be helping. IMO these things should exist, but should be toned down drastically. - the way splash damage functions in general. I think tanks/banes/storm etc are awesome, but that they should be there to soften up the army/ give openings for tactical play, not to completely annihilate the opposition in seconds. - RTS, not FPS. I say this, because every engagement feels like pulling the trigger. You throw your army into the pit, and so does the other guy. You have 200ms to micro and thats kind of it. Sometimes one of you gets a lucky 360 no scope head shot, and its lame. I'm sure many of you out there have won a game and just been like "meh", because you were meant to win. You did what you were meant to and it worked. Its not that exiting in the slightest. Alot of the time you are playing the game, not the opposing player, if that makes any sense. IMO the game isnt 'too fast', just over too quickly, if that makes any sense. You should be able to do worker harras, but it shouldnt be a 1 button apocolypse. It needs to be skill based. I remember in WoL where you could accumulate small advantages over time which amount to a larger one 10 mins into the game, cutting seconds out and improving play. ATM it feels alot more like, I have the unit, I win now. The current 'balance' trend seems to be aiming for a super stale meta, where every zvt is ravager -> ultra etc, where there is a right and wrong way to play and only 1-2 viable stratagies outside of cheese, and even the cheese is restrictive in the way it can be executed etc. BoneApart11
No mech discussion at community summit? Why in this last Community Update is there still zero discussion/thoughts any updates on mech viability? There's more Terran nerfs i see (more liberator nerfs....what ?) which will add ling bane muta back to Zerg (they already can do this + 50 other styles). Was there not anyone at the Community Summit that could articulate anything of value about Mech Viability? It's a bit depressing it's been this long and there's still no meaningful changes to mech. Cyclones were made worse when changed to 4 supply, armories still cost more than brood war armories for no reason, tanks are 125 gas they could be 100... There's a lot of changes that could be done to help mech viability without breaking the game...why is nothing be said or done about this? This game cannot honestly stay marine+tankivac into liberators 99% of the games if you want more viewers. It's way too predictable that every Terran game has to play out like this right now. There needs to be other choices, and mech used to be that other choice for Terrans. Can we get some discussion about this? What is taking so long to do some basic changes for Mech viability? avilo89
Adept kills everything let's address tankivac To make sure that Terrans have no options but die to everything. Especially vs Zerg. Like you're gonna nerf "Terran variety" which was your best excuse to nerf Terran since the worst widow mine patch. You did it again with marauders and it ended up being bad since the beta. Fortunately for Terran, Koreans zerg are super bad and just these days are starting to figure out the game like foreigner zergs. With that being said, massing adepts or ravagers is fine as long is not a Terran unit right? Because I see people winning adept-only (Neeb vs Hydra 2 minutes ago 3 games out of 3) With this trend you'll see what will happen. Tankivacs are, for sure, one of the most hated "feature" that Terran got. But we got it to match ravagers bile shot. If you remove it, you'll need to nerf to the ground ravagers which I personally don't think it's a good idea since is an important unit in ZvP. Adepts are a serious problems. Shade shouldn't get through enemy units and should at least weaken adepts in some way. Like destroying their shields. Right now it's win-win scenario. Liberators..don't know how to address them. While being very strong, those are siege units. Only good when you have plenty of them. It's like colossi or ultras (but nobody seems to want to nerf them). If you nerf them, it's an useless expansion for Terran. 2 unit out of 2 are just bad. That being said they need some address in the "harrassing" department. Cyclone..don't know man. You're excuses were "don't want them to being used in mass". But other units are killing this game and costs 2 supply less (adepts) or just counter 50 supply of army (ultras). Ultras, like I said before, if a Thor pops out it won't have the exact same impact like an ultra. Like, imagine 70 zerglings and 30 banelings getting rekt by 3 thors. Would you think it's broken? Personally I will. Stuff like pylons cannon are utterly !@#$. Unbelievable that "feature" made it through beta. I remember protoss player, during the beta, making carriers in TvP behind that. And still it wasn't nerfed. Instead carriers (which are dead like BCs) got nerfed. *facepalm* It's not that difficult to address design problems that reflects on balance, David Kim. Next time hire a better balance designer, please Blizzard. Airmax25
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MMR Progression hey Blizzard, i am a big fan of playing on your 1v1 ladder system and i do enjoy the new changes. my only thing is that now that MMR is more important, after the day is over you cannot go over your matches and see which ones you lost more MMR on, just division points. if we could see both that would be great ... for instance i just lost a match to a GM with 900 more MMR than i have, i lost 0 points and i cannot tell how much MMR i lost. i would like to know since that is what is more importantto league promotion and all that. thank you ! BassHabit9
StarCraft Universe Open Beta Release Upheaval Arts is Proud to commence the launch of StarCraft Universe! Cinematic Trailer - Gameplay Trailer - Indiegogo - OPEN BETA ZONES CURRENTLY ON BATTLE.NET SC Universe: Prologue 1 (Singleplayer Basic Tutorial) SC Universe: Prologue 2 (Multiplayer Basic Raid) SC Universe: Prologue 3 (Singleplayer Ship Tutorial) SC Universe: Beyond Koprulu (Limited Open Beta) Over five years ago, myself, a creative developer, and Philipp Meyer, a brilliant programmer, began developing a ‘World of StarCraft’ prototype using the StarCraft II Engine. Neither of us knew of each other’s projects, until one day we discovered one another and joined forces to build a small team, beginning work on what we wanted to be the biggest mod ever made… Not just a mod. A game. A complete transformation of the way StarCraft was played; Something the entire Blizzard community dreamed of for years. We wanted to combine the third person action RPG elements of World of WarCraft, the combat mechanics of Diablo, and the starship mechanics of FTL with the StarCraft setting. We wanted the game to be completely voice acted with a unique story, custom art assets, and a fresh musical score. We wanted it to open with a breathtaking CG cinematic, inspired by Blizzard Entertainment’s dedication to high production values. And so our small group set out to do what many said we were crazy to do, what others said we would never finish, and what some said we would completely fail at… But there were those throughout the globe who believed in us, backed us, and bought us the time we needed to deliver on our promises. Today we announce the Open Beta of StarCraft Universe: Beyond Koprulu, and the full launch slated to release one month from now! We don’t own the intellectual property on StarCraft, so we cannot sell SCU, but we ask those who are able and enjoy what we’ve done, to back us on Indiegogo, a platform endorsed by Blizzard for community developers to receive donations. To all those who believed in us and helped us along the way, we say thank you. SCU would not have been possible without you. We look forward to seeing you all… in the worlds… of StarCraft. UpheavalArts26
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3.4 MMR rating questions. I'm a fairly seasoned starcraft player in team games, rarely play ones, so I didn't expect a high placement. However, the bit of research I've done places my MMR rating around entry level to tier 2 platinum. My only opponents have been platinum, yet I was placed in bronze tier 3. Every time I win there is no progress, even if it's somebody in platinum tier 3, but when I lose my rating goes down 2 or 3 x the amount of my opposition gains, even though technically I'm in the very very bottom. I'm just really confused. Could somebody please clarify this for me? SoulPosessed6
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