Balance Patch, New Test Map, and Daedalus Fix

General Discussion
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02/07/2014 12:56 PMPosted by Bapu
02/07/2014 09:46 AMPosted by iCeCold
Yes, I've noticed over the years that any "balance" changes Blizzard makes directly involves making Terran stronger. They even admitted it in their article about the balance change. Any time they EVER change anything for Zerg, it's to nerf them. This ramp change is clearly a move to make it so there are NO MAPS that favor zerg in the lineup. It's always OK to have maps that favor Terran, but if it favors Zerg, they IMMEDIATELY change it. Notice, they decided not to buff the hydras or change swarm hosts... But they directly changed two things that affect TvP matches... IMO the creator hates playing tvz and it influences his decision making. He had to change Daedelus so Terrans could wall themselves in like turtles because everyone knows that its super exciting to watch every Terran player act like a turtle. God forbid they actually learn to use MICRO and UNITS to defend...


You are such a hilarious guy. Did you even play WoL? In WoL the only buffs terran got were Supply Depot life increase (from 350 to 400), Battlecruiser speed increase (From 1.41 to 1.88), removal of Seeker missile upgrade and they also increased Seeker missile´s movement speed speed (from 2.5 to 2.95). Now think of these meaningless buffs combined with the removal of terran favoured maps and the huge nerf hammer and you will understand why GomTvT era existed.

If you think those changes made terran much stronger you are the most delusional player I know and should share whatever stuff you are smoking.

In HotS they have barely touched the game which in my eyes has had horrible results. They changed the banshee and ghost upgrades, made siege tanks hit faster. On the other hand they nerfed widow mines and hellbats.

And what are these zerg nerfs you are talking about? As far as I can see you guys have only received buffs. You got faster overseers, better spore crawlers and improved roach upgrade.


Just a friendly reminder:

Terran didn't get buffs in WoL because they were completely OP out of the box. Terran was bat-!@#$ crazy insane strong.
I just thought of something, what if combat shield makes it so it gives +1 or 2 armor to marines only instead of +10 HP?
Your dedalus fix is useless. the overcharge still can't hit the lings at the wall and for terran it's super hard to repair due to the lenght. Do you have a brain? sometimes i wonder
02/08/2014 01:41 AMPosted by NalRa
Your dedalus fix is useless. the overcharge still can't hit the lings at the wall and for terran it's super hard to repair due to the lenght. Do you have a brain? sometimes i wonder


Yeah. Why don't they just ban all zerg agression
And quite a few of those nerfs were way overdone and not tested either,Blizzard blindly implemented them under the statement "we are confident that this will not affect the units' use" and when it turned out they they DID affect the unit quite significantly they were conveniently silent. Just because "terrans got nerfs" doesn't mean they were well-thought out nerfs,in any respect,quite the opposite.
Wait, what EMP changes? I see a ghost energy buff but no direct changes to EMP itself anywhere - is it being changed to fully deplete shields/energy?!

And I'd still like to see a Nuke buff. Nukes are the coolest thing about Ghosts but they're so underused because of their cost + ungodly cast time. Please, give us a research option to reduce the time by about 3~5 seconds to make them more viable both as a harassment/distraction tool and an emergency button in a big engagement. As it stands, both Zerg and Protoss have superior late game armies which is fine, they're freaking aliens, but it sucks that our most powerful weapon is so unwieldy.
I honestly never use ghosts, and Time warp's energy cost may limit it's apperance frequency, but what about late-game DTs?

Literally late-game DTs can win you the match if microed properly, even if the enemy's production is superior.

Also I've been looking at some things and Warpgates allow production of high-cost units at a rate as if they were zealots. I'd like Warpgates to be nerfed in the way that Templars of any kind cannot be produced from Warpgates. Either that or add in the Fusion reactor for the barracks from the campaign, please. Honestly fusion reactors would balance it somehat more, considering Templars can be used to get archons, which are pretty much capable of soloing an ultralisk, but they can be produced at the speed of marines. How is that balanced?

Tell me and I'll stop complaining... and use actual data and examples, instead of linking to something please.
02/08/2014 01:41 AMPosted by NalRa
Your dedalus fix is useless. the overcharge still can't hit the lings at the wall and for terran it's super hard to repair due to the lenght. Do you have a brain? sometimes i wonder


Hey genius, since you're apparently one, the natural ramp is significantly shorter and much easier to wall off and it's not as large of a wall as it used to be. So what if you PO can't reach the far end of it? it's called improvising, make it so you can still wall and allow PO to reach. You're insulting the team saying they have no brain yet you complain about something so miniscule without trying to improvise. Walling the natural since the fix on the ramp is much easier since I don't need 3 or 4 barracks anymore and just 2 for the wall off. Or instead of having the wall connect to the OC/PF. Not only that but ONE map where you can't have loleasyPO benefit right off the bat and you come here to complain, typical bias protoss player.
This is the thing about balance threads. Everyone wants to complain about everything rather than learning the game.

DTs are expensive and risky, if u dont scout it then dont QQ about it later
02/08/2014 02:16 PMPosted by Ghost
02/08/2014 01:41 AMPosted by NalRa
Your dedalus fix is useless. the overcharge still can't hit the lings at the wall and for terran it's super hard to repair due to the lenght. Do you have a brain? sometimes i wonder


Hey genius, since you're apparently one, the natural ramp is significantly shorter and much easier to wall off and it's not as large of a wall as it used to be. So what if you PO can't reach the far end of it? it's called improvising, make it so you can still wall and allow PO to reach. You're insulting the team saying they have no brain yet you complain about something so miniscule without trying to improvise. Walling the natural since the fix on the ramp is much easier since I don't need 3 or 4 barracks anymore and just 2 for the wall off. Or instead of having the wall connect to the OC/PF. Not only that but ONE map where you can't have loleasyPO benefit right off the bat and you come here to complain, typical bias protoss player.


Inb4 "buff Planetary Nexus range" threads pop up. OMG! PO doesn't cover my ENTIRE base, plz blizzard, fix it!
02/07/2014 09:57 PMPosted by WrathofShane
02/07/2014 06:17 PMPosted by BaDMaRiNe
TOO MUCH??!! BUT SHUT UP MOTHER!@#$ER THE %^-*ING PROTOSS HAVE THE HIGH TEMPLAR THAT THEY HAVE THE !@#$ING PSIONIC TEMPEST THAT IS TOO STRONG AND THE GHOST'S EMP CONSUME TOO ENERGY AND WHEN USE IT THE GHOSTS CAN BECOME INVISIBLE , THE %^-*ING TOSS HAVE ALSO THE !@#$ING COLOSS THEREFORE THE MMM TERRAN NOT WORTH NOTHING AND U SAY TOO MUCH!!!??? HOW THE TERRAN CAN KILL A %^-*ING TOSS WHIT YOUR !@#$ING HIGH TEMPLAR AND THE %^-*ING DT WHIT PERENNIAL INVISIBILITY ??? !!! BUT !@#$ OFF AT ALL %^-*ING PROTOSS!!!


RAGE


IT'S OVER 9000!
PLEASE, please, make Photon Overcharge only available to the Mothership. Not MSC, but actual Mothership. Also reduce MSC sight radius to 10 or 9. This will fix ALMOST every problem in TvP without ruining Protoss as a whole. Maybe include some more upgrades with both Terran (like Hellion/Hellbat change for example), and also make Hydralisk upgrades mixed into one big upgrade with a little attack buff, or make one of them already available as standard (as you did with ghosts, I suggest +1 range/+1 attack).

These changes in this thread are good, but still, I feel so sad about the current meta-game. The current changes ARE NOT ENOUGH! I watched IEM tonight and never ever have I felt SO BORED (and even felt the boredom and disappointment from the CASTERS Kaelaris and Apollo) watching pro games. I felt the same with Code A and Code S games.

Face it Blizzard, Protoss is a broken race, and if you do not implement the changes I described above, or some other way of making Terran a viable race again (and nerfing Protoss along the way while changing/buffing Zerg a tiny bit), you are going to kill SC2. And I would hate for that to happen since I love the game with all my heart, but this is simply ridiculous.

Every SC2 player knows that Protoss is killing the eSport, the only people denying it are Protoss players themselves (because they feel superior and think that their achievements mean less due to OPness, which I understand to some degree) and the other people denying it IS YOU, BLIZZARD! SO PLEASE, for the sake of the whole SC2 community, fix the game. Make the races more equal. When watching pro games becomes boring due to almost exclusive only PvP matches, YOU KNOW SOMETHING IS WRONG! PLEASE READ THIS! :(
02/09/2014 03:07 PMPosted by quZy
PLEASE, please, make Photon Overcharge only available to the Mothership. Not MSC, but actual Mothership. Also reduce MSC sight radius to 10 or 9. This will fix ALMOST every problem in TvP without ruining Protoss as a whole. Maybe include some more upgrades with both Terran (like Hellion/Hellbat change for example), and also make Hydralisk upgrades mixed into one big upgrade with a little attack buff, or make one of them already available as standard (as you did with ghosts, I suggest +1 range/+1 attack).

These changes in this thread are good, but still, I feel so sad about the current meta-game. The current changes ARE NOT ENOUGH! I watched IEM tonight and never ever have I felt SO BORED (and even felt the boredom and disappointment from the CASTERS Kaelaris and Apollo) watching pro games. I felt the same with Code A and Code S games.

Face it Blizzard, Protoss is a broken race, and if you do not implement the changes I described above, or some other way of making Terran a viable race again (and nerfing Protoss along the way while changing/buffing Zerg a tiny bit), you are going to kill SC2. And I would hate for that to happen since I love the game with all my heart, but this is simply ridiculous.

Every SC2 player knows that Protoss is killing the eSport, the only people denying it are Protoss players themselves (because they feel superior and think that their achievements mean less due to OPness, which I understand to some degree) and the other people denying it IS YOU, BLIZZARD! SO PLEASE, for the sake of the whole SC2 community, fix the game. Make the races more equal. When watching pro games becomes boring due to almost exclusive only PvP matches, YOU KNOW SOMETHING IS WRONG! PLEASE READ THIS! :(


Bad designers will not fix this game, actually they should get a huge change of mind to see how ridiculously weak terran race is. This last point always have existed from starcraft 1 , but now you and a lot of people can see how ridiculously weak this race is. Actually they just think: "No, you can break up the weakness by micro, everything is fixed up with terran micro it doesn't matter if the units are x10 weaker than zerg / protoss units ". I'm including zerg race because we had the same problem that we have now with protoss race on wings liberty between zerg and terran race.

Zergs abussed like 1 year and 6 months about something too absurd like infestor + broodlord combo and that only shows how incredibly egocentric and closed mind are this nasty designers called as David Kim and Dustin Browder ... Basically they tried to " fix " wings of liberty like 1 month before the launch of " Heart of the Swarm Beta ". What a joke.

Deal with it guys, the designers of this game are horrendous.
I've been keenly watching pro games and streams to see if these changes have helped TvP.

So far no impact on the Protoss early pressure - one or 2 base blink or oracles. Terrans can't even get to ghosts, and 1 TW is plenty.

In my own play I can hold off blinks and oracles if I play very defensively but then my economy is so far behind I often lose in the mid game.
02/09/2014 03:32 AMPosted by Onslaught
This is the thing about balance threads. Everyone wants to complain about everything rather than learning the game.DTs are expensive and risky, if u dont scout it then dont QQ about it later


This is why I like having some turrets around vital areas just in case of this, more so when I have ghosts and see the shimmers they make while moving around.
did you played toss there? I though it was heavily vetoed :v

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