Do good SC2 players usually have sharp minds?

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04/16/2014 07:52 AMPosted by llllllllll
04/16/2014 07:40 AMPosted by Waffles
Sometimes pros say things that are blatantly false


Could you give us a few examples?


I just actually watched Kas die to an Immortal/Sentry all in when he had three bunkers surrounded by SCVs and being repaired. He said he lost because he was "out of position". There's one example. But, if you want examples, just turn on a pro stream and wait for the player to say something dumb. It happens constantly.
04/16/2014 08:31 AMPosted by Null
04/16/2014 07:40 AMPosted by Waffles
One player from a team will approach his teammate and say something to the effect of "do this build against me all day until I figure out how to stop it". They just have time on their hands because playing Sc2 is their job. It's not like they have some grand unified understanding of Sc2 that makes them better, smarter, or faster, it's just that they practice a lot -- and I mean a lot. If you played Sc2 with practice partners for 16 hours a day, nearly every single one of us would be contenders for a spot in GM. But we have real lives with real jobs and very few of us get that far with modest practice.


Exactly. Any pure skill is destroyed, so there is really nothing to gauge in the end because the meta-game changing too much, no other game suffers from this. Every successful game that has survive the test of time have two+ people doing the exact same thing, older people refine and hone their skills and play it for many years while retaining their championship titles (ie: Daigo) and rivalries.

SC2 changes too much to keep people hooked, there is no idol or anything to believe in either, champions come and go faster than a weekly newspapers headlines and people become frustrated and lash out at balance because they cannot comprehend why certain unit compositions aren't working anymore.

Anyone in GM would be exceptional working on a factory line, that is unfortunately about it.


Sc2 requires skill, but it's not the same sort of skill as a game like BW. Playing Sc2 seems to be the same sort of skill as learning how to play a musical instrument. It's just muscle memory and having the experience to foresee what should come next -- what's the next step, what's the next step, etc, etc. Only practice and experience can dictate how fast your fingers can translate your understanding to the actual game.

I've met some Bronze players who have a SOLID really really really firm grasp of Sc2 mechanics. They'll watch a game and know exactly why each player made the decisions they made. They can anticipate the next most probable move from both players with ease. However, they just don't practice the game enough to apply that understanding to the ladder. It happens all the time.

Then there are people like myself, who lose the will to learn more about developing this particular skill, and just stubbornly do the same thing every game without fail. When I pick up my guitar, I very rarely learn something new. I just play the same stuff I've known since I was a teenager. Some people are like that. They've just lost the satisfaction of progressing through a skill. So, some people who are stuck where they are may be perfectly capable of going further, they just don't care enough to do so. When I got to top 8 Masters, that was the end of my race, and now I don't really have a stake in this game anymore. I just watch it and comment on it.
04/16/2014 07:33 AMPosted by Shonix
04/16/2014 06:51 AMPosted by Intuslegere
but I haven't ever seen a Ph.D. kind of intelligence in a SC2 player so far.

Wouldn't a Ph.D. be more of the same thing as sc2? Being smart can help you get there faster but regardless you can still get there without necessarily being a genius? I mean I know some high school dropouts who are brilliant, and some college graduates who are some complete retards.


Sure. What I mean is, you usually don't expect deep and innovative analyses from great players. You'd more easily see them saying "Protoss OP" or "SH IMBA".

There are people with diplomas that aren't particularly brilliant, but they are capable of analyzing. I don't expect the same from top SC2 players just because they are top players. That's what I meant with my comment. They are very perpective of in-game signs, they have quick thinking and reactions, but you'd be hard-pressed to find someone insightful among them.

Different kinds of skillsets for different needs.
04/16/2014 09:00 AMPosted by Shonix
No, doesn't necessarily mean that the more intelligent player wins, just that intellgence would give you a small advantage, and these situations arise quite a lot.


Hm. Like what?
04/16/2014 01:07 AMPosted by Shonix
I honestly think that most high ranking sc2 players will be smarter than others but not because of a direct cause (being good at sc2 requires you being smart), but rather because being smart is something that will greatly aid you in getting good at sc2, which I think is something that most people will agree with.

Still trying to push that League=IQ thing huh?
How does it feel knowing Daveroid and avilo are both vastly more intelligent than you?
04/16/2014 09:58 AMPosted by kappavilo
04/16/2014 01:07 AMPosted by Shonix
I honestly think that most high ranking sc2 players will be smarter than others but not because of a direct cause (being good at sc2 requires you being smart), but rather because being smart is something that will greatly aid you in getting good at sc2, which I think is something that most people will agree with.

Still trying to push that League=IQ thing huh?
How does it feel knowing Daveroid and avilo are both vastly more intelligent than you?


bahahahahahahahaha
04/16/2014 09:16 AMPosted by Waffles
I've met some Bronze players who have a SOLID really really really firm grasp of Sc2 mechanics. They'll watch a game and know exactly why each player made the decisions they made. They can anticipate the next most probable move from both players with ease. However, they just don't practice the game enough to apply that understanding to the ladder. It happens all the time.

In my experience, it's more complicated than that. For instance, in hundreds of games, I've never seen a Bronze League player that truly benefited from his own micro. Their control is poor.
04/16/2014 10:08 AMPosted by Doncroft
04/16/2014 09:16 AMPosted by Waffles
I've met some Bronze players who have a SOLID really really really firm grasp of Sc2 mechanics. They'll watch a game and know exactly why each player made the decisions they made. They can anticipate the next most probable move from both players with ease. However, they just don't practice the game enough to apply that understanding to the ladder. It happens all the time.

In my experience, it's more complicated than that. For instance, in hundreds of games, I've never seen a Bronze League player that truly benefited from his own micro. Their control is poor.

Memorizing build orders take a lil research and practice. Actually using the units just takes a lot of practice.
Macro can be improved by doing reading and research. Micro you have to just do it over and over and over and over and over again until it is muscle memory.
04/16/2014 10:17 AMPosted by kappavilo
04/16/2014 10:08 AMPosted by Doncroft
...
In my experience, it's more complicated than that. For instance, in hundreds of games, I've never seen a Bronze League player that truly benefited from his own micro. Their control is poor.

Memorizing build orders take a lil research and practice. Actually using the units just takes a lot of practice.
Macro can be improved by doing reading and research. Micro you have to just do it over and over and over and over and over again until it is muscle memory.


Well said. Macro feels like it just comes down to knowledge while micro comes down to mechanical skill.
04/16/2014 09:58 AMPosted by kappavilo
04/16/2014 01:07 AMPosted by Shonix
I honestly think that most high ranking sc2 players will be smarter than others but not because of a direct cause (being good at sc2 requires you being smart), but rather because being smart is something that will greatly aid you in getting good at sc2, which I think is something that most people will agree with.

Still trying to push that League=IQ thing huh?
How does it feel knowing Daveroid and avilo are both vastly more intelligent than you?


04/16/2014 10:04 AMPosted by Kumavilo
04/16/2014 09:58 AMPosted by kappavilo
...
Still trying to push that League=IQ thing huh?
How does it feel knowing Daveroid and avilo are both vastly more intelligent than you?


bahahahahahahahaha


Daily reminder that despite your butthurdness Im still taken more seriously than both of you on these forums for a reason.

04/16/2014 09:05 AMPosted by Waffles
04/16/2014 07:52 AMPosted by llllllllll
...

Could you give us a few examples?


I just actually watched Kas die to an Immortal/Sentry all in when he had three bunkers surrounded by SCVs and being repaired. He said he lost because he was "out of position". There's one example. But, if you want examples, just turn on a pro stream and wait for the player to say something dumb. It happens constantly.


Well to be honest if you ever step into a live tournament thread and see what people actually think is going on in games, you can tell that most people dont seem to have a clue about the deep components that go on in Sc2 match, something that you may take as being "dumb" may simply mean you dont understand it.
04/16/2014 09:54 AMPosted by BrokenBladez
04/16/2014 09:00 AMPosted by Shonix
No, doesn't necessarily mean that the more intelligent player wins, just that intellgence would give you a small advantage, and these situations arise quite a lot.


Hm. Like what?

Well, like I mentioned before going up against a composition you've never gone up against, going up against a timing you've never gone up against, transitioning from a weird scenario (i.e. your all-in doesnt kill the person but it does a lot of dmg), in these cases your understanding of the game mixed with your intelligence will give you a better edge if you both have intelligence and the understanding of the game.
04/16/2014 10:31 AMPosted by Shonix
Daily reminder that despite your butthurdness Im still taken more seriously than both of you on these forums for a reason.

You're delusional if you think anyone takes you seriously.
04/16/2014 10:33 AMPosted by kappavilo
04/16/2014 10:31 AMPosted by Shonix
Daily reminder that despite your butthurdness Im still taken more seriously than both of you on these forums for a reason.

You're delusional if you think anyone takes you seriously.


Your quite delusional if you think your taken more seriously than me, despite my recent streak of going around calling everyone retarded theres 2 things
1) When I actually call people retarded its always because they are, just because I dont bother explaining why in most cases doesnt actually mean im wrong, whether people take it as so is not my problem.
2) I've proven myself more than capable in this community multiple times in the past, something very few people have done even once.
Well there were articles that said that Starcraft 2 improves cognitive functions and stuff like that.
No, did you see Deezer?
There was a study a little less than a year ago discussing StarCraft's effects on people's 'cognitive flexibility', which is a person's ability to switch between thought processes or think about multiple things at the same time (think talking on the phone while shopping, for instance).

You can check out the (many) articles by searching for 'Playing StarCraft Smarter' in a search engine.

Can't speak to the study's accuracy per say, but it certainly is interesting to think about.
If you spend enough time on SC2 it will also decrease your sharpness so take things in modesty :)
I have to admit that if you take this quite seriously, and when you lose its quite stressful and its the axiety that will affect you to go in the ladder
I jeenyous. you dumb as sand.

I go hit very hard now. I pick out fighting outfit. Dont want my pants too tight. It time for me to break as verb.
I actually agree that if you take StarCraft seriously and play it long enough or remain at a professional/semi-pro level (Platinum or higher let's assume?), your mental strength, ability and your IQ improves. I can vouch for this because I found I was able to multitask a lot more efficiently in person than I could before and I was passively smarter, quicker to do things and even found myself being more patient when it came to learning and adapting to new things or environments.

If anyone ever tells you that StarCraft or playing games in general is bad for your mind, health, or education then they are just out-right blind. If I ever had children, I would prefer them to be stuck in the house playing video games 24/7 than outside and open to the many dangers of society these days. Drugs, abuse of alcohol, sex and getting pregnant/getting someone pregnant, and the many things which ruin your beautiful character or make a terrible image of your life. I'm not bashing society, I'm just bashing the people who abuse it and make it an even more dangerous place to get involved in.

There's hardcore gamers and there's alcoholics, I would say a hardcore gamer is safer to be around in my personal opinion.

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