It's time for a new Balance Test Map

General Discussion
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06/30/2014 03:37 AMPosted by Jimmeh
If Terran are so underpowered, how did Taeja win 2 premier tournaments this year? Checkmate Terran apologists.

Because hes Taeja. He also won tournaments during the GGlord/winfestor time.
06/30/2014 03:37 AMPosted by Jimmeh
If Terran are so underpowered, how did Taeja win 2 premier tournaments this year? Checkmate Terran apologists.
You mean the foreign tournaments where only noobs participated?
I think in order for Siege Tanks and Widow mines to be mixed into armies, you would have to give the widow mines two different attacks and the tank get buffed to it's former strength.

For the Widow mine, just give it a strong anti-air attack similar to the un-nerfed version, so that it remains very effective as a muta counter. For it's ground attack, perhaps a machine gun or weaker missile attack with smaller splash damage or no splash so it doesn't overlap with the tanks role. That way, you can see tanks positioned for ground armies while Mines are buried around them to protect from Muta snipes.
Great points!

As far as Muta regen, remove health regen by half when the units are mobile. This would prevent kite sneak attacks vs terran acting as containment when terran goes Mech vs zerg, with added 2 to Thor speed (or not)

Mutas would have same health regeneration as before but only when the unit is idle, the unit would regen at only half the rate while on the move.

To make it fair and if necassary, increase Muta regen rate when idle by a few points to give an even trade of sorts.

Also yes, something needs to be done about MSC photon overcharge, Turtle-Toss is very annoying
I like the suggestions very much... It even makes me wonder why you get strange balance changes suggestions out of the blue from men the work of whom it is (dt and oracle speed buff, the later even making it to the game is the first example that comes to my mind).

I would just add one suggestion that would REALLY help Terran early game : remove that damn engineering bay requirement for turrets. It makes no sense at all in the current state of the game. I'm pretty sure this would solve a LOT of TvP issues.
^ Would prevent all Banshee harassment early game, not a good idea IMO since Turtle-terran tend to seige and turret up
06/30/2014 03:57 AMPosted by TyrSlaysTyw
You mean the foreign tournaments where only noobs participated?


Okay. Which means Terran has never lost a tournament ever.

Any tournament you think Terran lost, why, that was a tournament that only had noobs playing in it. If the right terran had been playing, then Terran would have won.
06/30/2014 03:37 AMPosted by Jimmeh
If Terran are so underpowered, how did Taeja win 2 premier tournaments this year? Checkmate Terran apologists.


Because he is a code S lvl terran playing in foreign tournaments. If Maru started playing on AM ladder u don't think he would quickly go to rank 1 gm even though terran is insanely underrepresented on NA gm ladder? I know toss like to take there only tiny piece of evidence that shows their race isn't OP in tvp but that's not proof of anything. One of his opponents in the round of 8 was a protoss called shaaq who nobody has ever heard of and has never won anything .... yet players like MMA and forGG could['nt even make it to the round of 8.
06/30/2014 10:09 AMPosted by Damen
06/30/2014 03:37 AMPosted by Jimmeh
If Terran are so underpowered, how did Taeja win 2 premier tournaments this year? Checkmate Terran apologists.


Because he is a code S lvl terran playing in foreign tournaments. If Maru started playing on AM ladder u don't think he would quickly go to rank 1 gm even though terran is insanely underrepresented on NA gm ladder? I know toss like to take there only tiny piece of evidence that shows their race isn't OP in tvp but that's not proof of anything. One of his opponents in the round of 8 was a protoss called shaaq who nobody has ever heard of and has never won anything .... yet players like MMA and forGG could['nt even make it to the round of 8.


Well no kidding... MMA and forGG played prior to the balance changes.

/facepalm.

Give it a month. If Taejea is the only Terran to win a tournament (and doesn't win any more) by the end of July, then you can say the imba persists.
Thanks for all the feedback on this everyone. We just wanted to provide an update and let you know that we've seen the passionate responses on this topic and plan to discuss it in more detail on our end.

Once again, we appreciate some of the constructive discussion we've seen around this topic.
06/30/2014 01:59 PMPosted by Psione
Thanks for all the feedback on this everyone. We just wanted to provide an update and let you know that we've seen the passionate responses on this topic and plan to discuss it in more detail on our end.

Once again, we appreciate some of the constructive discussion we've seen around this topic.

Thanks for the response.

Not to sound like a jerk though, is it possible we could get an idea if the devs still plan to make good on their beta and blizzcon goals though? I think that's where most of this frustration is coming from.
I like the ideas of a tank buff and a thor speed buff. If a tank buff is out of the question, reverting the widow mine nerf might be a good option *as long as the mine dies upon activating*.

The problem with Widow Mine pushes was that they were just too cost efficient against ling/bling. Bringing the damage back would help deal with mass banelings, but the radius was just too strong. If the WM returns to its old form, it *has* to die upon activation so the terran is forced to produce more of them.

To be honest, though, I feel if the tank got buffed in terms of damage, the thor got buffed in terms of speed, and if ghosts got some kind of buff to deal with protoss deathballs - i think those would be steps in the right direction, not reverting back to the old Widow Mine.
I know that you've seen it,the question is,when are you gonna do something about it?.
06/30/2014 11:21 AMPosted by PraXy
06/30/2014 10:09 AMPosted by Damen
...

Because he is a code S lvl terran playing in foreign tournaments. If Maru started playing on AM ladder u don't think he would quickly go to rank 1 gm even though terran is insanely underrepresented on NA gm ladder? I know toss like to take there only tiny piece of evidence that shows their race isn't OP in tvp but that's not proof of anything. One of his opponents in the round of 8 was a protoss called shaaq who nobody has ever heard of and has never won anything .... yet players like MMA and forGG could['nt even make it to the round of 8.


Well no kidding... MMA and forGG played prior to the balance changes.

/facepalm.

Give it a month. If Taejea is the only Terran to win a tournament (and doesn't win any more) by the end of July, then you can say the imba persists.


Wtf are u talking about? Wm change was months ago .... We been "letting it wait" for almost a year now with no meaningful changes. Terrans aren't even using the Wm in TvP anymore except maybe 1 or 2 early game and they do no dmg. Wm's stopped being used the second toss stopped opening Templar because they actually had to micro against them so switched back to robo.
06/30/2014 02:15 PMPosted by HeisenZerg
To be honest, though, I feel if the tank got buffed in terms of damage, the thor got buffed in terms of speed, and if ghosts got some kind of buff to deal with protoss deathballs - i think those would be steps in the right direction, not reverting back to the old Widow Mine.


Funny thing is, they said that they wanted to make this sort of thing usable and seen at the pro level in beta!
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Well no kidding... MMA and forGG played prior to the balance changes.

/facepalm.

Give it a month. If Taejea is the only Terran to win a tournament (and doesn't win any more) by the end of July, then you can say the imba persists.


Wtf are u talking about? Wm change was months ago .... We been "letting it wait" for almost a year now with no meaningful changes. Terrans aren't even using the Wm in TvP anymore except maybe 1 or 2 early game and they do no dmg. Wm's stopped being used the second toss stopped opening Templar because they actually had to micro against them so switched back to robo.


Map pool change occoured april 14th, hellbat change occoured may 28th.
...

Wtf are u talking about? Wm change was months ago .... We been "letting it wait" for almost a year now with no meaningful changes. Terrans aren't even using the Wm in TvP anymore except maybe 1 or 2 early game and they do no dmg. Wm's stopped being used the second toss stopped opening Templar because they actually had to micro against them so switched back to robo.


Map pool change occoured april 14th, hellbat change occoured may 28th.


yes because people use hellbats in TvP oh so much...
06/30/2014 01:59 PMPosted by Psione
Thanks for all the feedback on this everyone. We just wanted to provide an update and let you know that we've seen the passionate responses on this topic and plan to discuss it in more detail on our end.

Once again, we appreciate some of the constructive discussion we've seen around this topic.


The passionate discussion has been there for a year now.. Why is it only being acknowledged now?
06/30/2014 02:57 PMPosted by Instinctz
...

Map pool change occoured april 14th, hellbat change occoured may 28th.


yes because people use hellbats in TvP oh so much...


No. That's what the april map change was for.

After the WM revert blizzard thought that blink play was still potentially too powerful on some maps. Instead of nerfing blink play, they opted to modify the map pool for season 2. To make blink stalkers still viable on some maps, but not as dominate.

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